STX WRX Setup / Discussion thread

[tronic]

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2010/...mium-AWD/Specs
2010 WRX wagon
Track Width, Front (in) 58.9
Track Width, Rear (in) 59.3

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2011/...mium-AWD/Specs
2011 WRX wagon
Track Width, Front (in) 60.2
Track Width, Rear (in) 60.6

Track width is measured (so I read) from tire centerline to tire centerline. I guess 17x7 vs 17x8 wheels would make a small difference as well.

Weight did go up 15-30lbs with the 2011+, depending on the source and trim level.

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[chaso]

More measurements per Edmunds.com

Narrow (08-10) vs Wide body (11-14)
Width 68.5 vs 70.7
Height 58.1 vs 58.1
Length 173.8 vs 173.8
Wheelbase 103.1 vs 103.3

[Xian_1]

If we're assuming a 2" width difference between the two cars and the same wheel/tire/alignment/suspension setting are achievable, there's no way that I'd voluntarily take the wide body chassis.

[chaso]

Originally Posted by Xian_1

If we're assuming a 2" width difference between the two cars and the same wheel/tire/alignment/suspension setting are achievable, there's no way that I'd voluntarily take the wide body chassis.

Unless of course you want the better looking car

[subydude]

Originally Posted by Xian_1

If we're assuming a 2" width difference between the two cars and the same wheel/tire/alignment/suspension setting are achievable, there's no way that I'd voluntarily take the wide body chassis.

Willing to bet the width difference is partially made up when you put the bigger wheels/tires on. If it's 2" difference after wheels and tires then the narrower car would be better.

Assuming you're a good driver.

[Xian_1]

Originally Posted by subydude

Willing to bet the width difference is partially made up when you put the bigger wheels/tires on. If it's 2" difference after wheels and tires then the narrower car would be better.

Agreed.

Assuming you're a good driver.

You know what happens when you assume...

[Xian_1]

Originally Posted by chaso

Unless of course you want the better looking car

If I wanted "the better looking car", I'd be driving [not a Subaru].

[screechf50]

Originally Posted by tomferd

Oh that's really simple. Not sure why I didn't do that. Thanks.

For those of you wondering:

Raw    DS    STX    change
30.00    24.33    25.08    0.75
35.00    28.39    29.26    0.87
40.00    32.44    33.44    1.00
45.00    36.50    37.62    1.12
50.00    40.55    41.80    1.25
55.00    44.61    45.98    1.37
60.00    48.66    50.16    1.50

Seems entirely within reason. For whatever reason I thought PAX would make it a few seconds difference.

If you're looking at what you need to beat DS by in raw time, this is incorrect. This is showing what you would lose by in PAX if you both ran an exact same raw time. In raw time, on a 30 sec course, you need to be about .9 sec faster than a DS car ([30sec x .811 (DS Pax)] / .836 (STX Pax) = 29.102sec). Which means on a 60 sec course, you have to be a massive 1.794s faster than a DS car. That's no small feat.

[umwisnig]

^^^This
Especially if there is a Golf R or R32 in DS at your events.

[Mind]

Originally Posted by 2superblus

Ok so if the proposal were to go through it would be effective for 2017.

that would put all WRX's (non STI) into STX.

Are you sure about that? That doesn't seem to be an item in the 'Recommended for 2017' section. It seems to be after that.

[The Fan]

Anyone recommend a good tuner for stx class?

[The Fan]

Are egr and tgv deletes allowed in stx?

[screechf50]

Originally Posted by The Fan

Anyone recommend a good tuner for stx class?

Find someone with a good reputation in your area. I'm sure you can search for someone here.

EGR and TGV deletes are not legal for STX. When it comes to engine, essentially anything between (and including) the turbo and exhaust ports is off limits.

I suggest looking up the rules and giving them a read.

[tronic]

In today's Fastrack news:
https://www.scca.com/pages/fastrack-news

Recommended Items for 2017
The following subjects will be referred to the Board of Directors for approval. Address all comments, both for and against, to the Solo Events Board. Member input is suggested and encouraged. Please send your comments via the form at www.soloeventsboard.com.

Street Touring
#16000 Consider moving 2009+ Mitsubishi Ralliart to STX
Per the STAC, the following classing change proposal is recommended:
Move from STU to STX
:
Mitsubishi
Lancer Ralliart (2008-2010)
Subaru
Impreza WRX (2009-2014)

[Xian_1]

Seems like a reasonable move. I don't think they've got a snowball's chance in hell but it's a little less buried than where they were before.

[Thorium06]

Considering the wheels and tires they will have to play with.. No.

At least they had a gearing advantage over the STis in STU.

It's for sure going to be the bluntest tool in the STX toolbag

[Scooby South]

2015 STX WRX.

Going to try my hand in campaigning a 2015 WRX in STX..
Right not in early stages of setup
-Ohlins Road and Track Coils with 600lb rear springs, 525 front springs, no rear bar and Eibach adjustable front bar..
-Going to do all legal bushings/mounts
-Big Diet. going to be hard to compete with the Twins at 2550lbs or so..
-EL Header and J-pipe, cat back..
-K&N Filter in the stock box along with Mishimoto Intake hoses for smoother flow
No Boost Tune should render about 300/340 to wheels after its said and done...

The biggest thing is to get the car to Turn.. and not lift the inside wheel..which renders the Torsion CTR diff helpless and not the fast way..
Using LW 17x8 Wheels on Hankook RS4's..
Gas will be at about 1/4 tank and hopefully won't fuel starve.
Steering inputs take a bit more for the car to process.. so agressive alignment settings will be had.. Right now Front -3.5 with .025 toe out.. Rear Camber is -1.6 and 0 toe..
Car feels pretty good.. just have to get used to putting the power down. have to kinda anticipate it.

[cmiovino]

Just had our first modified 2017 WRX come into STX this weekend. Placed 3rd out of 12ish, guy's first time ever on course too.

I was right behind him with my 2004 on 205 width tires. But damn, these new ones are quick. Granted, he was on coilovers of some type, 245's, full turboback and protune.

[cmiovino]

Needing some help evaluating my setup and where to go from here. I don't want to totally blame the car, but I've had our top PAX guy in a 2014 STX WRX drive it and he could only come within half a second of my time. He normally beats everyone in their own car. I've had others evaluate my videos and ride alongs with instructors... there's not much more people can critique. I feel the car is just not setup right when the top 2-3 guys are all running $1k coilovers and $2k wheel/tire setups with dedicated track tires.

2004 WRX, 131k miles, 4EAT (yes, you read that right).

USM STI pink springs (224/195lbs)
KYB Excel-G
20mm adj rear sway, set on stiffest setting (approx 21ish mm equivalent), solid rear endlinks
Perrin front endlinks with the stock front swaybar
STI titanium front strut bar, Cusco rear strut bar
Hankook RS3 205/55/16 tires on 16x7" RS wheels (16lbs/wheel)
Cobb turboback + SF intake, OTS stage 2 tune, Perrin inlet
Whiteline camber bolts, front camber maxed out

On a 35 second course, I'm looking to gain a full second.

Option #1. Ditch the Hankooks for the favored RE-71R's in 225/50/16, keep the light wheels, at least be running the same tire as everyone else, but not in 245.

Option #2. Get 17x8" wheels and the RE-71R's in 235 or 245.

Option #3. Get a front swaybar, 22 or 24mm. Leave the rear at the 21mm equivalent.

Option #4. Get both front and rear swaybars, probably 24/24mm.

... or a combination of any of the above. Probably the tires and swaybars.

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Needing some help evaluating my setup and where to go from here. I don't want to totally blame the car, but I've had our top PAX guy in a 2014 STX WRX drive it and he could only come within half a second of my time. He normally beats everyone in their own car. I've had others evaluate my videos and ride alongs with instructors... there's not much more people can critique. I feel the car is just not setup right when the top 2-3 guys are all running $1k coilovers and $2k wheel/tire setups with dedicated track tires.

2004 WRX, 131k miles, 4EAT (yes, you read that right).

USM STI pink springs (224/195lbs)
KYB Excel-G
20mm adj rear sway, set on stiffest setting (approx 21ish mm equivalent), solid rear endlinks
Perrin front endlinks with the stock front swaybar
STI titanium front strut bar, Cusco rear strut bar
Hankook RS3 205/55/16 tires on 16x7" RS wheels (16lbs/wheel)
Cobb turboback + SF intake, OTS stage 2 tune, Perrin inlet
Whiteline camber bolts, front camber maxed out

On a 35 second course, I'm looking to gain a full second.

Option #1. Ditch the Hankooks for the favored RE-71R's in 225/50/16, keep the light wheels, at least be running the same tire as everyone else, but not in 245.

Option #2. Get 17x8" wheels and the RE-71R's in 235 or 245.

Option #3. Get a front swaybar, 22 or 24mm. Leave the rear at the 21mm equivalent.

Option #4. Get both front and rear swaybars, probably 24/24mm.

... or a combination of any of the above. Probably the tires and swaybars.

Option 1 would be the best.. the RE71's are a good sec to sec and half faster than the RS3's.. but you need some kind of adjustable suspension. Konis might be a decent option for you if you want to stay with struts and springs.. also some kind of camber adjustment at least for the front would be very favorable..you didn't mention if your current setup is loose or tight.. I would also consider 17in wheels. and lower profile tires. the 225/50 option would be good if your dead set on the 16's...

Sounds like your trying to do this on the cheap.. which isn't a bad thing.. but the more you want to be competitive... the more you are going to spend to be competitive..

Bill

[tronic]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Option #2. Get 17x8" wheels and the RE-71R's in 235 or 245.

#2 for sure. If you're considering new tires it would be a waste to get them in a lesser width, in my opinion. You should be able to fit 245's. Light-ish 17x8" wheels like Rotas are not too hard to find used, to save some $ there.

[tuskenraider]

#2. That car needs some meat. 235's IMO, for better gearing. Sucks BS doesn't make the 235 in a 40 series sidewall though.

[screechf50]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Needing some help evaluating my setup and where to go from here. I don't want to totally blame the car, but I've had our top PAX guy in a 2014 STX WRX drive it and he could only come within half a second of my time. He normally beats everyone in their own car. I've had others evaluate my videos and ride alongs with instructors... there's not much more people can critique. I feel the car is just not setup right when the top 2-3 guys are all running $1k coilovers and $2k wheel/tire setups with dedicated track tires.

2004 WRX, 131k miles, 4EAT (yes, you read that right).

USM STI pink springs (224/195lbs)
KYB Excel-G
20mm adj rear sway, set on stiffest setting (approx 21ish mm equivalent), solid rear endlinks
Perrin front endlinks with the stock front swaybar
STI titanium front strut bar, Cusco rear strut bar
Hankook RS3 205/55/16 tires on 16x7" RS wheels (16lbs/wheel)
Cobb turboback + SF intake, OTS stage 2 tune, Perrin inlet
Whiteline camber bolts, front camber maxed out

On a 35 second course, I'm looking to gain a full second.

Option #1. Ditch the Hankooks for the favored RE-71R's in 225/50/16, keep the light wheels, at least be running the same tire as everyone else, but not in 245.

Option #2. Get 17x8" wheels and the RE-71R's in 235 or 245.

Option #3. Get a front swaybar, 22 or 24mm. Leave the rear at the 21mm equivalent.

Option #4. Get both front and rear swaybars, probably 24/24mm.

... or a combination of any of the above. Probably the tires and swaybars.

Firstly, To answer your question, get the 8" wheels and 245 tires. They're going to be the biggest difference, but I'm fairly sure it will not be a full second.

Secondly, I ditched my STX 2006 GD this year after realizing it's never going to be nationally competitive in STX. I've gone the way of the Twin (FR-S to be specific, the GD has gone mostly back to stock and is DD now), but since I'm out I'll give you my secrets/theory of the setup that worked best for me. My setup was fast but difficult to drive at the limit and incredibly uncomfortable on the street... so bad, I bought another car to DD. No kidding.

Additionally, for anyone that reads and has a non-STI, take note they're likely lumping all the boosted cars into one Street Touring class in 2018 (called STH, IIRC). This means you'll be fighting Mini's and likely STis, Evos, and Golf Rs. If you're serious about building an autocross ST WRX and haven't yet, you may want to see how next year plays out first or reconsider all together.

Here's my old setup:

• 17x8 wheels with RE71r tires 245/40R17
• Perrin lightweight crank pulley
• Cobb catted downpipe
• Stomung midpipe
• Custom turndown pipe (stupid loud, so I have a TurboXS axleback, too)
• Custom tune by Cam Tuning (now a pro tuner for Cobb) making about 320 tq but the custom part made the boost come in SUPER early (gotta love that 2.5L with AVCS)
• Raised rev limiter (car would do 72mph in 2nd gear)
• Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads
• HVT 6100i custom valved Tractive full inverted shocks (now Inertia Lab)
• Vorshlag front no-rise camber plates
• BC rear non-adjustable top hats
• Hyperco 2.25" springs; 600lb front/800lb rear
• Ride height F/R (hub center to fender): 13.5"/13.75"
• Perrin 24mm front bar on full stiff
• Delete rear bar
• Front: -4.3 deg camber, 0 deg toe
• Rear: -1.5 deg camber, -0.5 deg toe (out)
• Any TiC race hardness bushing I could get. Whiteline otherwise, including the caster offset bushing for the FCAR

I think that's it. Now... the rear setup is insane, I know, but hear me out. The problem I had was putting down power to the rear wheels. The car would just hop while spinning the inside rear wheel. Taking out the rear bar allowed the inside wheel to droop a bit more and helped with turn exit and eliminated most of the hopping. I had to bump up the rear spring rates to help with controlling roll. The next problem was to get the rear of the car to rotate. Due to lack of respectable diffs, there's virtually no way to get the car to rotate in mid corner or exit, so the only option was to make it happen on corner entry, hence the half degree of toe out. This gave me throttle off oversteer on corner entry, but it doesn't really work well for turns more than about 90deg (turn arounds and 180s are this car's nemesis and killed me at national events).

All this being said, the car is absolutely amazing in transition, especially slaloms (I can't explain how much I loved slaloms in this car). I haven't driven another WRX that responded like mine did nor as fast as mine was, and I've driven all the generations in ST trim except for the 15+. The people I let drive it said it was hilariously fun to drive and very quick, but didn't inspire confidence which made it hard to put down a good time. After driving the FR-S and a friend's STX BRZ, the twins are just sooooo easy to drive fast. After co-driving the STX BRZ for a weekend last year, I knew it was the last year for my WRX. It just can't keep up in the turns; lateral g's in the twin is so much higher, and that's 90%+ of autocross. According to my spreadsheet, I spent almost $10k to get my car to where it was and still wasn't able to come within 1 sec of a twin on course at the national level. I'm by no means an alien behind the wheel, but I know I'm pretty damn good.

If you're planning a WRX in ST class, I essentially modeled my car around this quote I found somewhere on this forum from another guy that gave up on his WRX when the twins came out: "Set the car up so it will spin while you drive it to the stating line, then learn to drive it fast." While it worked, it just wasn't enough.

(Final plug: If you're looking for wheels, springs, rear suspension bushings, or shocks, let me know)

[franswah]

Are rear lower control arms with pillow ball/spherical bearings bushings legal in STX or can we only use urethane bushings?

[Xian_1]

Originally Posted by screechf50

Firstly, To answer your question, get the 8" wheels and 245 tires. They're going to be the biggest difference, but I'm fairly sure it will not be a full second.

Secondly, I ditched my STX 2006 GD this year after realizing it's never going to be nationally competitive in STX. I've gone the way of the Twin (FR-S to be specific, the GD has gone mostly back to stock and is DD now), but since I'm out I'll give you my secrets/theory of the setup that worked best for me. My setup was fast but difficult to drive at the limit and incredibly uncomfortable on the street... so bad, I bought another car to DD. No kidding.

Additionally, for anyone that reads and has a non-STI, take note they're likely lumping all the boosted cars into one Street Touring class in 2018 (called STH, IIRC). This means you'll be fighting Mini's and likely STis, Evos, and Golf Rs. If you're serious about building an autocross ST WRX and haven't yet, you may want to see how next year plays out first or reconsider all together.

Here's my old setup:

• 17x8 wheels with RE71r tires 245/40R17
• Perrin lightweight crank pulley
• Cobb catted downpipe
• Stomung midpipe
• Custom turndown pipe (stupid loud, so I have a TurboXS axleback, too)
• Custom tune by Cam Tuning (now a pro tuner for Cobb) making about 320 tq but the custom part made the boost come in SUPER early (gotta love that 2.5L with AVCS)
• Raised rev limiter (car would do 72mph in 2nd gear)
• Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads
• HVT 6100i custom valved Tractive full inverted shocks (now Inertia Lab)
• Vorshlag front no-rise camber plates
• BC rear non-adjustable top hats
• Hyperco 2.25" springs; 600lb front/800lb rear
• Ride height F/R (hub center to fender): 13.5"/13.75"
• Perrin 24mm front bar on full stiff
• Delete rear bar
• Front: -4.3 deg camber, 0 deg toe
• Rear: -1.5 deg camber, -0.5 deg toe (out)
• Any TiC race hardness bushing I could get. Whiteline otherwise, including the caster offset bushing for the FCAR

I think that's it. Now... the rear setup is insane, I know, but hear me out. The problem I had was putting down power to the rear wheels. The car would just hop while spinning the inside rear wheel. Taking out the rear bar allowed the inside wheel to droop a bit more and helped with turn exit and eliminated most of the hopping. I had to bump up the rear spring rates to help with controlling roll. The next problem was to get the rear of the car to rotate. Due to lack of respectable diffs, there's virtually no way to get the car to rotate in mid corner or exit, so the only option was to make it happen on corner entry, hence the half degree of toe out. This gave me throttle off oversteer on corner entry, but it doesn't really work well for turns more than about 90deg (turn arounds and 180s are this car's nemesis and killed me at national events).

All this being said, the car is absolutely amazing in transition, especially slaloms (I can't explain how much I loved slaloms in this car). I haven't driven another WRX that responded like mine did nor as fast as mine was, and I've driven all the generations in ST trim except for the 15+. The people I let drive it said it was hilariously fun to drive and very quick, but didn't inspire confidence which made it hard to put down a good time. After driving the FR-S and a friend's STX BRZ, the twins are just sooooo easy to drive fast. After co-driving the STX BRZ for a weekend last year, I knew it was the last year for my WRX. It just can't keep up in the turns; lateral g's in the twin is so much higher, and that's 90%+ of autocross. According to my spreadsheet, I spent almost $10k to get my car to where it was and still wasn't able to come within 1 sec of a twin on course at the national level. I'm by no means an alien behind the wheel, but I know I'm pretty damn good.

If you're planning a WRX in ST class, I essentially modeled my car around this quote I found somewhere on this forum from another guy that gave up on his WRX when the twins came out: "Set the car up so it will spin while you drive it to the stating line, then learn to drive it fast." While it worked, it just wasn't enough.

(Final plug: If you're looking for wheels, springs, rear suspension bushings, or shocks, let me know)

Yup. Your setup is awfully close to where I landed with my STU STi (rear spring but no rear bar with little rear camber). It seems to work well IMO too.

As far as STH, I believe the plan was to leave the STU boost buggies where they are for the time being. The other turbo cars will get dropped into the new class while STF gets killed off.