STX WRX Setup / Discussion thread - Page 37

screechf50 · 05-03-2017, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franswah

Are rear lower control arms with pillow ball/spherical bearings bushings legal in STX or can we only use urethane bushings?

No spherical; only rubber, polyurethane, delrin, etc. You also can't increase the amount of metal in the bushing.

Quote:

Yup. Your setup is awfully close to where I landed with my STU STi (rear spring but no rear bar with little rear camber). It seems to work well IMO too.

As far as STH, I believe the plan was to leave the STU boost buggies where they are for the time being. The other turbo cars will get dropped into the new class while STF gets killed off.

Ah. Regardless, there's the Minis and likely the 15+ WRX, which is likely better.

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Xian_1 · 05-03-2017, 09:09 PM

Yeah, the Mini and the GTi seem like strong choices for STH.

franswah · 05-09-2017, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screechf50

No spherical; only rubber, polyurethane, delrin, etc. You also can't increase the amount of metal in the bushing.

Ah. Regardless, there's the Minis and likely the 15+ WRX, which is likely better.

Thanks for the response!

Breezio · 05-09-2017, 09:53 PM

I wish some of you guys were in my region. I'd love to compete against a good driver with a well setup wrx.
While my wrx is fun, it isn't setup properly for autox and therefore is pretty slow and I run my Nissan instead.

lprmesia · 06-22-2017, 05:27 PM

So I've been campaigning a '14 WRX in STX this year. I had some early success with the car on a semi-national level, however I'm becoming highly frustrated with the car. I keep tinkering with it trying to go faster, and I'm not having much luck despite having a few constants to measure up to. Here's the setup:

Enkei 17x8+45 RPF1s with 245/40/17 RE71R tires - 30 psi square (except I run 32 front on concrete)
Stoptech Sport front pads and Stoptech Street front rotors w/ Redline RL-600 fluid
BC Racing new DR series coilovers on 10k springs front/rear - damping set to 20/30 on left and 19/30 on right on both
Whiteline 24mm Front bar on the softer of the 2 settings
Whiteline 24mm Rear bar on the medium of the 3 settings
Kartboy front endlinks & Whiteline rear endlinks (since the Kartboys snapped about 2 years ago)
Cobb SF Intake w/ Box
Cobb Catted Downpipe w/ Cobb Turbo Heat Shield
SPT CBE
SPT STS
Whiteline Poly Rear Subframe Inserts
Whiteline Poly Rear Diff Inserts
Whiteline Positive Shift Kit Bushings
Run on the gas light
Rocksteady ST legal tune
Alignment: read below.

So I started off the season on this setup. Original alignment was .65 degrees of toe out in front per wheel and .15 toe out in rear while at -2.5 of front camber per wheel (-2.3 in the rear). I won a handful of regional events, including victories over some of the more nationally competitive STX guys - and also won the Match Tour in Pittsburgh, though the weather played a helping hand. Ended up finishing 10th in overall PAX too.

Ended up watching videos of some of the other guys in AWD cars from the event and saw how much speed they were able to carry around some of the corners compared to me. Feeling I should be able to do the same, I started tweaking the alignment. I adjusted my toe to 0 in front (which also let me get up to -2.7 of negative camber in front) and .20 per wheel of toe out in the rear. Car felt a bit better actually, but my times weren't improving against similar competition - they actually appeared to get worse though I felt I drove well.

This past weekend, I was raw timed at a local event by a DS 16' WRX. I did make some mistakes and left maybe a tenth out there (we should have been about even in times), but in looking at both his SoloStorm data as well as my own, our corner Gs and speed were identical (in fact, with his shorter gearing it offset any power gains I had as well, plus he was able to get off the line quicker whereas my clutch slips if I launch anywhere above 4200). I can live with the clutch and gearing advantages his car has over mine - but I feel I shouldn't be dead even with him in steady state cornering. We had a 120 foot diameter steady state carousel (270+ degree left turn) - and there was no difference in times/speed/Gs. He's on 255 Rival S 1.5s, I'm on the 245 stones - but I have camber, haha.

So I've toed out the front again to -.35 since having a bit of toe out seemed to maybe help in the past, and I've backed off the damping a bit to 11 in front and 17 in the rear (of 30) and we're going to give it another go this weekend - but any ideas on how the heck to get this thing to turn?

More camber would be nice, but without $2K control arms or a custom machining of some top hats, it looks like I'm SOL on that front.

HALP!

surfrdawg · 09-12-2017, 12:31 PM

I'm selling my current setup from my '13 WRX which is legal for next year's STH (albeit not the wider wheel which is allowed). 245/40R17 RE-71R on a 17x8 OZ Ultraleggera. I'm selling because I want to go up to 265/35R18 and just run in our local "street tuner challenge" class.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2852516

cmiovino · 09-17-2017, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lprmesia

HALP!

The new chassis is just that good. Even stock, the springs, swaybars, everything are worlds better over the older models.

We have a guy locally running one with just Rivals on new wheels and he gets damn near the raw times of the top tier guys. Even had a few others co-drive and they were able to edge him out even. Point being, it's a damn capable car.

Thus, it puts you at a disadvantage. You'll have to drive the balls off yours and pick up more time in areas you thought not humanly possible. Sorry that I don't have an easy fix-all part for ya. Even moving to the Rivals isn't going to net you much.... they're on par with the 71's, just with a few different characteristics.

lprmesia · 09-22-2017, 12:26 PM

Dang, it's like a Steel Cities circle jerk in here. I know Kavka's reading this, and it's pretty easy to figure out who the Orange WRX from NE Ohio is as well as CMIovino (I hope you enjoy the co-drive tomorrow).

Anyway, quick update for anyone reading. I need to stop giving so much of a **** about PAX. I'm going to STH next year which I expect (unfairly) to have a PAX somewhere between STX and STU. I could be wrong, but on paper it looks like select STX cars seeing power increases - however none of those cars seeing power increases are current top dogs in STX. I've seen one other person besides me campaign well in STX at national level events not in a twin, RX8, or one particular MCS going to STU next year. The STH cars aren't current overdogs in their current class.

DS has a soft 2017 PAX, and the WRX isn't an overdog in STX. I just gotta deal with that.

Anyway, I messed w/ my bars (both on full stiff) and slightly adjusted the damping on the coilovers. Car seems to be a bit quicker and able to rotate properly.

Kavka - I'm coming for you on October 1st, haha.

newtothescene · 10-03-2017, 10:44 PM

Why do you have so much camber out back? I think you need to get the rear camber down or increase the front. You say its rotating properly. Is it? You can try to add more PSI out back to help loosen the rear a little. A little loose is faster IMO.

Scooby921 · 10-09-2017, 04:23 PM

Have you thought about softening up the car at all? At some point the suspension is so stiff you don't really compress anything before you load up the tires and exceed the friction circle.

FWIW I won the '07 Peru Tour and took 2nd and 3rd at the Toledo Pro in '07 and '08 running 7k/8k springs with Koni DA's and 24mm front and rear bars. I won the '09 Toledo Pro in ButtDyno's car. I think he was running 8k/9k springs on Koni SA's and we ran without a rear swaybar. Those were an '05 and '03 WRX. The newer chassis is much stiffer and may not need the crazy spring rates on street tires.

Also, I know BC Racing coilovers are among the best of the affordable stuff, but you might think about something with improved damping properties and fewer settings to have to work through to find something which works. Back in the heyday of boost buggies in STX the guys finishing at the top were running double adjustable Koni, KW, and Ohlins dampers. I will also say that springs can have an impact on performance. I did some testing years ago and found that some of the cheap coilover brands don't use very linear springs. Swift and Hypercoil were both the lightest weight and maintained the most linear spring rate throughout compression. The cheap-o springs on my original $1200 coilovers and even the Eibach springs that came with my Ground Control kit were less linear.

Butt Dyno · 10-09-2017, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby921

Have you thought about softening up the car at all? At some point the suspension is so stiff you don't really compress anything before you load up the tires and exceed the friction circle.

FWIW I won the '07 Peru Tour and took 2nd and 3rd at the Toledo Pro in '07 and '08 running 7k/8k springs with Koni DA's and 24mm front and rear bars. I won the '09 Toledo Pro in ButtDyno's car. I think he was running 8k/9k springs on Koni SA's and we ran without a rear swaybar. Those were an '05 and '03 WRX. The newer chassis is much stiffer and may not need the crazy spring rates on street tires.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1594875

At the time of Toledo, 550 lb/in front w 26mm bar, 500 lb/in rear w/ no bar. I ended up adding a 17mm bar later and liking that better. The new cars are multilink in the rear, right?

cmiovino · 10-20-2017, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lprmesia

Dang, it's like a Steel Cities circle jerk in here.

I need to look at user names more often. I totally didn't know that was you

mball19 · 06-21-2018, 06:01 AM

I am thinking about turning my 2017 WRX into an STH car and have been researching / shopping for coilovers. It is my daily, so I don't want anything to harsh. I am not trying to turn it into a nationally competive car, just something fun and competitive locally. I think I have narrowed my options down to the Ohlin Road and Track and the HKS Hypermax IV SP coilovers. I know that the Ohlins will probably ride better but, are they worth the extra $700?

I drove a prepped STX BRZ a couple weeks ago at a local event. Is a mildly prepped WRX as much fun to drive as a STX BRZ?

~The_Duke~ · 06-21-2018, 07:25 AM

Yes the Ohlins are worth the $700... If you can afford them, yes yes you should buy the ohlins...

Personally the BRZ are kinda lacking in the driving feel department, most likely its the lack of torque... I drove a nationally prepped one last year and it was ALOT of fun, but I still prefer a prepped WRX to them.

mball19 · 06-21-2018, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~The_Duke~

Yes the Ohlins are worth the $700... If you can afford them, yes yes you should buy the ohlins...

Personally the BRZ are kinda lacking in the driving feel department, most likely its the lack of torque... I drove a nationally prepped one last year and it was ALOT of fun, but I still prefer a prepped WRX to them.

Thanks. I have an ES Miata, which is fun but, lacking in body control and power. When I sell it, I think that my WRX would make a fun STH car. I drove a well prepped STX BRZ and I thought it was a lot of fun. It was my first time driving a BRZ. I was a few tenths in raw off a fast AS Z06.

~The_Duke~ · 06-21-2018, 10:57 AM

The ST* PAX is rather steep though if you are considering that.

I run in STU and the PAX for STX isn't that much different. I have to RAW time the SS guys by several tenths to beat them in the Pro class in Atlanta Region.

I haven't looked to see what the STH PAX is yet. I think that class was a good addition to the line up because the BRZ and other 2 door sporty cars kinda took over STX the last several years.

I love ST* it offer the ability to fiddle with stuff without going down the *SP or SM rabbit hole... Plus the challenge of trying to go as fast as ST* goes... on street tires. I love it.

cmiovino · 06-21-2018, 12:17 PM

STH PAX = 0.811
STX PAX = 0.813

I've been in STX and now STH since 2012 and the cars have just become increasingly faster. Our two fastest STH cars in the state by car have both been GR WRX with typical stage 2 bolt ons, tune, coilovers, and the widest tires possible.

Besides those two outliers, most of STX is still a hair faster in raw time (consistently) than all of STH. BRZ/FRS and Mini Cooper S mainly.

I drove a SSC prepped FRS recently and really loved it. Power was just there and ready when compared to my 2004 WRX with a turboback and tune. The center of gravity and weight all felt much much lower in the car where my WRX felt top heavy. Steering was on point and feedback was perfect. Granted, I've never driven a truly fast STH setup car, but the BRZ/FRS is probably going to be my next car. STH cars just take a lot of investment in terms of tires/wheels, coilovers, swaybars, exhaust, tuning... when a BRZ with a few simple mods can net you the same fun factor and arguably the same raw time.

~The_Duke~ · 06-21-2018, 12:22 PM

Isn't the mini in STH as well since its a hot hatch? (I haven't looked at the list)

subydude · 06-21-2018, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~The_Duke~

Isn't the mini in STH as well since its a hot hatch? (I haven't looked at the list)

The turbo one is. The supercharged one is still in STX.

~The_Duke~ · 06-21-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subydude

The turbo one is. The supercharged one is still in STX.

I'm scratching my head on that ruling, but ok... lol

Breezio · 06-23-2018, 12:39 AM

STH was built because they couldn't police hidden tunes on ST* cars. Makes sense that the turbo cooper would be in STH while the supercharged one wouldn't. Can crank up the boost on the turbo one with just tune, while the supercharged one would require physically noticeable parts.

gti_speed · 06-26-2018, 12:22 AM

^This, then they decided to also give the rest of ST boost.

gti_speed · 06-26-2018, 12:26 AM

But mostly it was because you had these pig FWD and AWD cars that people actually like to drive (especially in the North) running against lightweight RWD cars that go about things a little differently.

~The_Duke~ · 06-26-2018, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezio

STH was built because they couldn't police hidden tunes on ST* cars. Makes sense that the turbo cooper would be in STH while the supercharged one wouldn't. Can crank up the boost on the turbo one with just tune, while the supercharged one would require physically noticeable parts.

If that is the case then why does the PAX for the STH has less teeth than the STX one?

If what you're saying is true the STH PAX should be between STU and STX...

STU is .824
STX is .813
STH is .811

Just saying...

Breezio · 06-27-2018, 09:24 AM

That was the presumption from the other fellows in my region. I happen to agree.

Perhaps the pax is that way because all those cars still can't beat a STX twin...

10-09-2017, 04:23 PM	#910
Scooby921 Merci Buckets Moderator Member#: 88606 Join Date: Jun 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Michigan Vehicle: 2018 Grand Cherokee Velvet Red Pearl	Have you thought about softening up the car at all? At some point the suspension is so stiff you don't really compress anything before you load up the tires and exceed the friction circle. FWIW I won the '07 Peru Tour and took 2nd and 3rd at the Toledo Pro in '07 and '08 running 7k/8k springs with Koni DA's and 24mm front and rear bars. I won the '09 Toledo Pro in ButtDyno's car. I think he was running 8k/9k springs on Koni SA's and we ran without a rear swaybar. Those were an '05 and '03 WRX. The newer chassis is much stiffer and may not need the crazy spring rates on street tires. Also, I know BC Racing coilovers are among the best of the affordable stuff, but you might think about something with improved damping properties and fewer settings to have to work through to find something which works. Back in the heyday of boost buggies in STX the guys finishing at the top were running double adjustable Koni, KW, and Ohlins dampers. I will also say that springs can have an impact on performance. I did some testing years ago and found that some of the cheap coilover brands don't use very linear springs. Swift and Hypercoil were both the lightest weight and maintained the most linear spring rate throughout compression. The cheap-o springs on my original $1200 coilovers and even the Eibach springs that came with my Ground Control kit were less linear. Last edited by Scooby921; 10-09-2017 at 04:31 PM.

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05-03-2017, 09:09 PM	#902
Xian_1 Scooby Specialist Member#: 97029 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Yeah, the Mini and the GTi seem like strong choices for STH.

05-09-2017, 09:53 PM	#904
Breezio Scooby Specialist Member#: 234357 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Meridian, ID Vehicle: 2009 WRX Sportwagen zum einbauen!	I wish some of you guys were in my region. I'd love to compete against a good driver with a well setup wrx. While my wrx is fun, it isn't setup properly for autox and therefore is pretty slow and I run my Nissan instead.

06-22-2017, 05:27 PM	#905
lprmesia Scooby Newbie Member#: 400371 Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Vehicle: 2014 WRX Hatch	So I've been campaigning a '14 WRX in STX this year. I had some early success with the car on a semi-national level, however I'm becoming highly frustrated with the car. I keep tinkering with it trying to go faster, and I'm not having much luck despite having a few constants to measure up to. Here's the setup: Enkei 17x8+45 RPF1s with 245/40/17 RE71R tires - 30 psi square (except I run 32 front on concrete) Stoptech Sport front pads and Stoptech Street front rotors w/ Redline RL-600 fluid BC Racing new DR series coilovers on 10k springs front/rear - damping set to 20/30 on left and 19/30 on right on both Whiteline 24mm Front bar on the softer of the 2 settings Whiteline 24mm Rear bar on the medium of the 3 settings Kartboy front endlinks & Whiteline rear endlinks (since the Kartboys snapped about 2 years ago) Cobb SF Intake w/ Box Cobb Catted Downpipe w/ Cobb Turbo Heat Shield SPT CBE SPT STS Whiteline Poly Rear Subframe Inserts Whiteline Poly Rear Diff Inserts Whiteline Positive Shift Kit Bushings Run on the gas light Rocksteady ST legal tune Alignment: read below. So I started off the season on this setup. Original alignment was .65 degrees of toe out in front per wheel and .15 toe out in rear while at -2.5 of front camber per wheel (-2.3 in the rear). I won a handful of regional events, including victories over some of the more nationally competitive STX guys - and also won the Match Tour in Pittsburgh, though the weather played a helping hand. Ended up finishing 10th in overall PAX too. Ended up watching videos of some of the other guys in AWD cars from the event and saw how much speed they were able to carry around some of the corners compared to me. Feeling I should be able to do the same, I started tweaking the alignment. I adjusted my toe to 0 in front (which also let me get up to -2.7 of negative camber in front) and .20 per wheel of toe out in the rear. Car felt a bit better actually, but my times weren't improving against similar competition - they actually appeared to get worse though I felt I drove well. This past weekend, I was raw timed at a local event by a DS 16' WRX. I did make some mistakes and left maybe a tenth out there (we should have been about even in times), but in looking at both his SoloStorm data as well as my own, our corner Gs and speed were identical (in fact, with his shorter gearing it offset any power gains I had as well, plus he was able to get off the line quicker whereas my clutch slips if I launch anywhere above 4200). I can live with the clutch and gearing advantages his car has over mine - but I feel I shouldn't be dead even with him in steady state cornering. We had a 120 foot diameter steady state carousel (270+ degree left turn) - and there was no difference in times/speed/Gs. He's on 255 Rival S 1.5s, I'm on the 245 stones - but I have camber, haha. So I've toed out the front again to -.35 since having a bit of toe out seemed to maybe help in the past, and I've backed off the damping a bit to 11 in front and 17 in the rear (of 30) and we're going to give it another go this weekend - but any ideas on how the heck to get this thing to turn? More camber would be nice, but without $2K control arms or a custom machining of some top hats, it looks like I'm SOL on that front. HALP!

09-12-2017, 12:31 PM	#906
surfrdawg Scooby Newbie Member#: 371905 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: NE Ohio Vehicle: 2013 WRX Orange	I'm selling my current setup from my '13 WRX which is legal for next year's STH (albeit not the wider wheel which is allowed). 245/40R17 RE-71R on a 17x8 OZ Ultraleggera. I'm selling because I want to go up to 265/35R18 and just run in our local "street tuner challenge" class. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2852516

09-22-2017, 12:26 PM	#908
lprmesia Scooby Newbie Member#: 400371 Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Vehicle: 2014 WRX Hatch	Dang, it's like a Steel Cities circle jerk in here. I know Kavka's reading this, and it's pretty easy to figure out who the Orange WRX from NE Ohio is as well as CMIovino (I hope you enjoy the co-drive tomorrow). Anyway, quick update for anyone reading. I need to stop giving so much of a **** about PAX. I'm going to STH next year which I expect (unfairly) to have a PAX somewhere between STX and STU. I could be wrong, but on paper it looks like select STX cars seeing power increases - however none of those cars seeing power increases are current top dogs in STX. I've seen one other person besides me campaign well in STX at national level events not in a twin, RX8, or one particular MCS going to STU next year. The STH cars aren't current overdogs in their current class. DS has a soft 2017 PAX, and the WRX isn't an overdog in STX. I just gotta deal with that. Anyway, I messed w/ my bars (both on full stiff) and slightly adjusted the damping on the coilovers. Car seems to be a bit quicker and able to rotate properly. Kavka - I'm coming for you on October 1st, haha.

10-03-2017, 10:44 PM	#909
newtothescene Scooby Specialist Member#: 222368 Join Date: Sep 2009 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Tri-Cities Vehicle: 2006 WRX Limited CGM - SOLD	Why do you have so much camber out back? I think you need to get the rear camber down or increase the front. You say its rotating properly. Is it? You can try to add more PSI out back to help loosen the rear a little. A little loose is faster IMO.

06-21-2018, 06:01 AM	#913
mball19 Scooby Newbie Member#: 322749 Join Date: Jun 2012	I am thinking about turning my 2017 WRX into an STH car and have been researching / shopping for coilovers. It is my daily, so I don't want anything to harsh. I am not trying to turn it into a nationally competive car, just something fun and competitive locally. I think I have narrowed my options down to the Ohlin Road and Track and the HKS Hypermax IV SP coilovers. I know that the Ohlins will probably ride better but, are they worth the extra $700? I drove a prepped STX BRZ a couple weeks ago at a local event. Is a mildly prepped WRX as much fun to drive as a STX BRZ?

06-21-2018, 07:25 AM	#914
~The_Duke~ Scooby Specialist Member#: 215109 Join Date: Jun 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Vehicle: 2014 WRX-STi 5-Door Plasma Blue	Yes the Ohlins are worth the $700... If you can afford them, yes yes you should buy the ohlins... Personally the BRZ are kinda lacking in the driving feel department, most likely its the lack of torque... I drove a nationally prepped one last year and it was ALOT of fun, but I still prefer a prepped WRX to them.

06-21-2018, 10:57 AM	#916
~The_Duke~ Scooby Specialist Member#: 215109 Join Date: Jun 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Vehicle: 2014 WRX-STi 5-Door Plasma Blue	The ST* PAX is rather steep though if you are considering that. I run in STU and the PAX for STX isn't that much different. I have to RAW time the SS guys by several tenths to beat them in the Pro class in Atlanta Region. I haven't looked to see what the STH PAX is yet. I think that class was a good addition to the line up because the BRZ and other 2 door sporty cars kinda took over STX the last several years. I love ST* it offer the ability to fiddle with stuff without going down the SP or SM rabbit hole... Plus the challenge of trying to go as fast as ST goes... on street tires. I love it.

06-21-2018, 12:17 PM	#917
cmiovino Scooby Guru Member#: 134005 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: 2004 WRX Premium PSM	STH PAX = 0.811 STX PAX = 0.813 I've been in STX and now STH since 2012 and the cars have just become increasingly faster. Our two fastest STH cars in the state by car have both been GR WRX with typical stage 2 bolt ons, tune, coilovers, and the widest tires possible. Besides those two outliers, most of STX is still a hair faster in raw time (consistently) than all of STH. BRZ/FRS and Mini Cooper S mainly. I drove a SSC prepped FRS recently and really loved it. Power was just there and ready when compared to my 2004 WRX with a turboback and tune. The center of gravity and weight all felt much much lower in the car where my WRX felt top heavy. Steering was on point and feedback was perfect. Granted, I've never driven a truly fast STH setup car, but the BRZ/FRS is probably going to be my next car. STH cars just take a lot of investment in terms of tires/wheels, coilovers, swaybars, exhaust, tuning... when a BRZ with a few simple mods can net you the same fun factor and arguably the same raw time.

06-21-2018, 12:22 PM	#918
~The_Duke~ Scooby Specialist Member#: 215109 Join Date: Jun 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Vehicle: 2014 WRX-STi 5-Door Plasma Blue	Isn't the mini in STH as well since its a hot hatch? (I haven't looked at the list)

06-23-2018, 12:39 AM	#921
Breezio Scooby Specialist Member#: 234357 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Meridian, ID Vehicle: 2009 WRX Sportwagen zum einbauen!	STH was built because they couldn't police hidden tunes on ST* cars. Makes sense that the turbo cooper would be in STH while the supercharged one wouldn't. Can crank up the boost on the turbo one with just tune, while the supercharged one would require physically noticeable parts.

06-26-2018, 12:22 AM	#922
gti_speed Scooby Newbie Member#: 483443 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Pittsburgh PA Vehicle: 2016 WRX STI Ice Silver	^This, then they decided to also give the rest of ST boost.

06-26-2018, 12:26 AM	#923
gti_speed Scooby Newbie Member#: 483443 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Pittsburgh PA Vehicle: 2016 WRX STI Ice Silver	But mostly it was because you had these pig FWD and AWD cars that people actually like to drive (especially in the North) running against lightweight RWD cars that go about things a little differently.

06-27-2018, 09:24 AM	#925
Breezio Scooby Specialist Member#: 234357 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Meridian, ID Vehicle: 2009 WRX Sportwagen zum einbauen!	That was the presumption from the other fellows in my region. I happen to agree. Perhaps the pax is that way because all those cars still can't beat a STX twin...