What is an EJ20G? - Page 4

Marnix · 04-17-2009, 04:56 AM

The early Legacy EJ20G heads (rocker HLAs) and Impreza EJ20G heads (direct HLAs) can be disguised by the quantity of ribs on the valve cover: the rocker heads have those ribs above and below the plug holes, the later heads only have them above the plug holes.

And all EJ208 (manual twin turbo) and EJ206 (auto twin turbo) are open deck - I've dismantled quite a few of them.

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adbramsay · 04-17-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RallyColtTurbo

Before you get hammered by the regulars.....MOST Turbo EJ motors have been open. From the EJ20Gs all the way up to the EJ205s.

Most CURRENT EJ turbo motors are semi closed.

i thought that in this thread we just went over the fact that the ej20g was closed? i know that the ej20k/r are semiclosed as i have ripped them apart. the ej207 is semi closed as we all know, so how many are open and how many are semi closed and how many are closed deck? i am getting confused here. sorry, can we just get a list going here? please modify list accordingly please.

and thanks Marnix for correcting me on the ej208

semi-closed:
ej20k
ej20r
ej207

closed:
ej20g
ej22g

open:
ej206
ej208

Matt Monson · 04-17-2009, 10:13 AM

adbramsay,
I think you are getting confused because you've got the definitions wrong. Go back to page one and look at the picture of the semi-closed deck Ej207. You will notice that it has braces on the end and the sides of the cylinder. The open deck engines don't have braces on the sides.

Ej20K is open deck by that definition, as is Ej206, Ej205, Ej20h and Ej208.

Not ALL Ej20G's are closed deck. I gave a generalized explanation of what years and models were closed deck earlier in this thread. However, I think it's safe to say that 90% of the Ej20G's ever made were OPEN deck. Closed deck Ej20G's are more rare than generally assumed.

Also, you left the Ej22T off your list of closed deck engines. The Ej22G is not the same thing as an EJ22T. Different block from different castings. There are 2 different closed deck 2.2l blocks out there.

adbramsay · 04-17-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adbramsay

semi-closed:
ej207

closed:
ej20g(casting lines 10%-15%)
ej22g
ej22t

open:
ej20k
ej20r
ej20g(no casting lines 85%-90%)
ej20h
ej205
ej206
ej208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

adbramsay,
I think you are getting confused because you've got the definitions wrong. Go back to page one and look at the picture of the semi-closed deck Ej207. You will notice that it has braces on the end and the sides of the cylinder. The open deck engines don't have braces on the sides.

Ej20K is open deck by that definition, as is Ej206, Ej205, Ej20h and Ej208.

Not ALL Ej20G's are closed deck. I gave a generalized explanation of what years and models were closed deck earlier in this thread. However, I think it's safe to say that 90% of the Ej20G's ever made were OPEN deck. Closed deck Ej20G's are more rare than generally assumed.

Also, you left the Ej22T off your list of closed deck engines. The Ej22G is not the same thing as an EJ22T. Different block from different castings. There are 2 different closed deck 2.2l blocks out there.

thanks matt!!! although i am still not so sure that all the ej20k/r are all open i will check and see if i can find out.

Marnix · 04-18-2009, 02:40 PM

All EJ20K and EJ20R are open deck. And to add to the confusion: the EJ207 of the GC8 (MY99-00) is also open deck; the first EJ207 to be semi-closed was introduced in the MY01 GDB STI and carried over right into the new GRB.

adbramsay · 04-18-2009, 05:45 PM

kewl thanks!!!

94 GT · 04-18-2009, 09:45 PM

I"m quite sure that this is a 1995 STi Ej20g with a 90 degree turbo sorry as I'm not sure of what turbo it is but I think it is a TD05 I may be wrong there!!!! I have no idea what it is out of??? as the place I got it had not much of a clue as I could probly guess better thanks to nasioc!!! it is a closed deck the coils have 1 bolt retaining them I'm not sure of the ribs on the valve cover that Marnix is talking about but I will find out soon!!!

BUt is it normal for these engines to have a noisy valvetrain??? the 22T's was quiet but the heads were rebuilt earlier this year!! (unfortuneatly the bottom end was not!!!) but yeah I need to know if this noise is gonna wreck the valvetrain??
The wreckers said that the engine had like 70,000k's on it but they hardly knew bout it so yeah !!

What cars did a engine like this come in?? only Impresa's or whould it come in a leggy too??

Thanks Jesse

Matt Monson · 04-21-2009, 06:41 PM

94 GT. If you are sure that it's a '95 and it's closed deck then it's definitely an STi variant. Nothing but STi engines (and even then not all of them) were closed deck by then. 90 degree inlet with a td05 is some version of a 93-96 WRX sedan EJ20G.

Try seafoaming the engine and see if that helps. It sounds like grungy HLA's. Often after these engines sit for a while they take some time to clean themselves out and get full pressure in the HLA's. They may just stop making noise on their own, though it's possible a couple of them are blown. On the other hand, it's very very unlikely that you would have solid lifters but it's possible.

RealDealTarheel · 05-05-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Not true, on several counts

Only really early Ej20G's(like 89-91) or STi's(up through 1995) were closed deck. 90% of them were not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel

So when my 94 WRX gets it's heads pulled for an HG change I will find an open deck block?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto

Yes and yes...they are all the same as far as strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRX_RA

no and yes..
just pulled the heads off my 93 wrx and its a closed-deck block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_c_the_light

I'd say they decided much like the same way Japanese car manufacturers choose model names: throw random words into a vacuum cleaner and put it into reverse.

Just to throw some water to a drowning man, here is the block out of my 94 WRX, plain jane WRX sedan. TD05H 16G turbo of course.

Marnix · 05-06-2009, 07:47 AM

The very first series of WRX's (build from November 1992 into somewhere in 1993) had the closed deck block, too

RealDealTarheel · 05-06-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marnix

The very first series of WRX's (build from November 1992 into somewhere in 1993) had the closed deck block, too

Hmmm, I thought that 94 was a V2 WRX? Closed deck motors don't grow from trees, and you have to know what to look for, but they aren't too hard to run across over here.

Splinter · 05-06-2009, 03:02 PM

The very early WRXs seem to be odd ducks indeed.

My friend has a 92, and it has alloy control arms and a 16G turbo, which is very clearly stock. His VIN denotes a non-RA wrx.

Next time I see him I'll look for the crosshatching on the block, I never thought to look before.

James Gt EB · 05-22-2009, 07:41 AM

Here in South Africa there has been a lot of discusion about why more people dont run these blocks..., there seems to be the suggestion that a closed deck block runs hotter than semi closed or open and therefore wouldnt suit our climate....??? any opinions or proof on that note...??? Are closed decks only to be used in colder climates...????

Matt Monson · 05-22-2009, 10:03 AM

I am adding this over here since this thread gets pulled up a lot in searches. This is the single best post I have seen about the whole open deck versus closed deck question with respect to which cars had what.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marnix

More info on engine codes:

Closed deck (according to JDM factory parts CD-ROM):

EJ20GDW1HD 1992-05-01 to 1993-08-31 WRX.EJ20G
EJ20GDW1HE 1992-05-01 to 1993-08-31 WRX.EJ20G
EJ20GDW1HJ 1992-05-01 to 1993-08-31 WRXRA.EJ20G
EJ20GDW1HR 1992-05-01 to 1993-08-31 WRXRA.EJ20G
EJ20GDW2HD 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 S.WRX.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW2HE 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 S.WRX.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW2HJ 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 WRXRA.EJ20G
EJ20GDW2HR 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 WRXRA.EJ20G
EJ20GDW4HJ 1993-06-01 to 1995-08-31 WRXRA.EJ20G
EJ20GDW5HJ 1995-09-01 to 1996-08-31 WRXRA.EJ20G (STI VERSION)

Open deck:

EJ20GDX1ND 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 AT.EJ20G
EJ20GDX1NE 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 AT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW1ND 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 W.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW1NE 1993-05-01 to 1994-09-30 W.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW4HD 1994-06-01 to 1995-08-31 S.WRX.EJ20G
EJ20GDW4HE 1994-06-01 to 1995-08-31 S.WRX.EJ20G
EJ20GDW4ND 1994-06-01 to 1995-08-31 W.WRX.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW4NE 1994-06-01 to 1995-08-31 W.WRX.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDX4NE 1994-06-01 to 1995-08-31 WRX.AT.EJ20G
EJ20GDW5HE 1995-09-01 to 1996-08-31 S.WRX.EJ20G
EJ20GDW5NE 1995-09-01 to 1996-08-31 W.WRX.MT.EJ20G
EJ20GDX5NE 1995-09-01 to 1996-08-31 AT.EJ20G
EJ20GDX5HD 1995-09-01 to 1996-08-31 S.WRX.EJ20G
EJ20GDW5PE 1995-10-01 to 1996-08-31 W.WRX.MT.EJ20G (STI VERSION)
EJ20GDW5PE 1995-10-01 to 1996-08-31 WRXSTI.EJ20G
EJ20GDW5PJ 1995-10-01 to 1996-08-31 WRXRASTI.EJ20G

Please note that this is based on factory information although I'm almost certain that a part of it cannot be correct!

Matt Monson · 05-22-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Gt EB

Here in South Africa there has been a lot of discusion about why more people dont run these blocks..., there seems to be the suggestion that a closed deck block runs hotter than semi closed or open and therefore wouldnt suit our climate....??? any opinions or proof on that note...??? Are closed decks only to be used in colder climates...????

That's been debated here in the states as well. I don't know if anyone has a defnitive answer. The one thing I can say is that Subaru continues to use a closed deck Ej20 in the WRC until this day. Those cars suffer through some extreme conditions in very hot environments around the world. It's a tough comparison to make though since those engines are generally torn down and refreshed after every race.

I think that's really a point that's often ignored. If someone wants to build a high powered street car that sees the occasional track day or weekend race event it's one thing. If it becomes a dedicated racecar in any type of racing it's got to be refreshed with regularity. It's just the nature of the beast. My business is gearboxes. I've got race customers who send us their box two or three times a year for cars they use in amateur racing. Even though they aren't pros, these cars are purely racecars and they're driven in a dozen or more events a year with it being a mix of 1 hour events and 3 hour enduros. You reach a point where it becomes about how many hours you race between rebuilds.

For a street car, regardless of final power goals, I personally think there's nothing to worry about with respect to additional heat retention on a closed deck engine. And if it's a racecar you've just got to be sure to rebuild it often enough. If you don't, you'll spin a rod bearing in competition and then you might lose your whole block when you put a rod through it.

James Gt EB · 05-22-2009, 01:34 PM

Thanks Matt, yeah I agree with you, I suppose theres one thing for it and that is to give it a bash and see how it turns out..., there is one available that I know of.., maybe I make him an offer and turn into a long term project.
I dont see why it shouldnt work, if it does run hot surely a radiator upgrade is the answer..?? (a stronger than std head gasket would also help)....

dboostjuice · 05-22-2009, 08:17 PM

all the 2.0's i have been in had nothing going on below 35-4krpm.
the 2.2s and 2.5's have all this grunty torque for a 4 zyl. down low!
2.2 closed deck is where its at!

James Gt EB · 05-23-2009, 03:13 AM

Matt Monson · 05-23-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboostjuice

yo "G" is for gangsta!

D (as in dboostjuice) is for acting like a dumbarse.

i_c_the_light · 05-25-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboostjuice

all the 2.0's i have been in had nothing going on below 35-4krpm.
the 2.2s and 2.5's have all this grunty torque for a 4 zyl. down low!
2.2 closed deck is where its at!

You're a tool.

Turbotime05 · 06-03-2009, 08:54 PM

So i have an 02 wrx with a spun bearing.. been reading about hybrid builds for days and prolly gonna go that route. But a guy near me is selling a closed deck forged ej20g for cheap. This wont work with my 02 heads on it due to a bump in compression? How bad will the diffrence be?.

RealDealTarheel · 06-03-2009, 11:08 PM

It should be a pluck and chuck operation if you're just using the block. Just use the right HG and you shouldn't run into any issues. Correct me if I am wrong Guru's.

Chi_San · 12-03-2009, 03:04 AM

Sorry to bump an old thread, had a question that I couldn't answer by searching.

What is the compression ratio on a stock EJ20G?

Marnix · 12-03-2009, 08:49 AM

8.0 or 8.5 or 9.0 depending on year and application.

Chi_San · 12-03-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marnix

8.0 or 8.5 or 9.0 depending on year and application.

Excellent. Since I have no idea the year or application the motor is I'm getting, this really will be fun!

05-22-2009, 08:17 PM	#92
dboostjuice Scooby Newbie Member#: 206216 Join Date: Mar 2009	all the 2.0's i have been in had nothing going on below 35-4krpm. the 2.2s and 2.5's have all this grunty torque for a 4 zyl. down low! 2.2 closed deck is where its at! Last edited by dboostjuice; 05-23-2009 at 10:17 AM.

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04-17-2009, 04:56 AM	#76
Marnix Scooby Specialist Member#: 51480 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: International Location: The Netherlands Vehicle: 1984 AM5, 1984 AF1, 1994 BC4, 2015 Outback	The early Legacy EJ20G heads (rocker HLAs) and Impreza EJ20G heads (direct HLAs) can be disguised by the quantity of ribs on the valve cover: the rocker heads have those ribs above and below the plug holes, the later heads only have them above the plug holes. And all EJ208 (manual twin turbo) and EJ206 (auto twin turbo) are open deck - I've dismantled quite a few of them. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

04-17-2009, 10:13 AM	#78
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	adbramsay, I think you are getting confused because you've got the definitions wrong. Go back to page one and look at the picture of the semi-closed deck Ej207. You will notice that it has braces on the end and the sides of the cylinder. The open deck engines don't have braces on the sides. Ej20K is open deck by that definition, as is Ej206, Ej205, Ej20h and Ej208. Not ALL Ej20G's are closed deck. I gave a generalized explanation of what years and models were closed deck earlier in this thread. However, I think it's safe to say that 90% of the Ej20G's ever made were OPEN deck. Closed deck Ej20G's are more rare than generally assumed. Also, you left the Ej22T off your list of closed deck engines. The Ej22G is not the same thing as an EJ22T. Different block from different castings. There are 2 different closed deck 2.2l blocks out there.

04-18-2009, 02:40 PM	#80
Marnix Scooby Specialist Member#: 51480 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: International Location: The Netherlands Vehicle: 1984 AM5, 1984 AF1, 1994 BC4, 2015 Outback	All EJ20K and EJ20R are open deck. And to add to the confusion: the EJ207 of the GC8 (MY99-00) is also open deck; the first EJ207 to be semi-closed was introduced in the MY01 GDB STI and carried over right into the new GRB.

04-18-2009, 05:45 PM	#81
adbramsay Scooby Newbie Member#: 152345 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Bahamas Vehicle: 2000 R34 GTS-T sedan silver	kewl thanks!!!

04-18-2009, 09:45 PM	#82
94 GT Scooby Newbie Member#: 193676 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whitby ont Canada Vehicle: 94 legacy GT silver (grey soon!!)	I"m quite sure that this is a 1995 STi Ej20g with a 90 degree turbo sorry as I'm not sure of what turbo it is but I think it is a TD05 I may be wrong there!!!! I have no idea what it is out of??? as the place I got it had not much of a clue as I could probly guess better thanks to nasioc!!! it is a closed deck the coils have 1 bolt retaining them I'm not sure of the ribs on the valve cover that Marnix is talking about but I will find out soon!!! BUt is it normal for these engines to have a noisy valvetrain??? the 22T's was quiet but the heads were rebuilt earlier this year!! (unfortuneatly the bottom end was not!!!) but yeah I need to know if this noise is gonna wreck the valvetrain?? The wreckers said that the engine had like 70,000k's on it but they hardly knew bout it so yeah !! What cars did a engine like this come in?? only Impresa's or whould it come in a leggy too?? Thanks Jesse

04-21-2009, 06:41 PM	#83
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	94 GT. If you are sure that it's a '95 and it's closed deck then it's definitely an STi variant. Nothing but STi engines (and even then not all of them) were closed deck by then. 90 degree inlet with a td05 is some version of a 93-96 WRX sedan EJ20G. Try seafoaming the engine and see if that helps. It sounds like grungy HLA's. Often after these engines sit for a while they take some time to clean themselves out and get full pressure in the HLA's. They may just stop making noise on their own, though it's possible a couple of them are blown. On the other hand, it's very very unlikely that you would have solid lifters but it's possible.

05-06-2009, 07:47 AM	#85
Marnix Scooby Specialist Member#: 51480 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: International Location: The Netherlands Vehicle: 1984 AM5, 1984 AF1, 1994 BC4, 2015 Outback	The very first series of WRX's (build from November 1992 into somewhere in 1993) had the closed deck block, too

05-06-2009, 03:02 PM	#87
Splinter Scooby Guru Member#: 106510 Join Date: Feb 2006 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Osoyoos, BC Vehicle: 98 Widebody 3.4L Smooth Safety Blue	The very early WRXs seem to be odd ducks indeed. My friend has a 92, and it has alloy control arms and a 16G turbo, which is very clearly stock. His VIN denotes a non-RA wrx. Next time I see him I'll look for the crosshatching on the block, I never thought to look before.

05-22-2009, 07:41 AM	#88
James Gt EB Scooby Newbie Member#: 127514 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: International Location: Cape Town South Africa Vehicle: 2000 Impreza Blue	Here in South Africa there has been a lot of discusion about why more people dont run these blocks..., there seems to be the suggestion that a closed deck block runs hotter than semi closed or open and therefore wouldnt suit our climate....??? any opinions or proof on that note...??? Are closed decks only to be used in colder climates...????

05-22-2009, 01:34 PM	#91
James Gt EB Scooby Newbie Member#: 127514 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: International Location: Cape Town South Africa Vehicle: 2000 Impreza Blue	Thanks Matt, yeah I agree with you, I suppose theres one thing for it and that is to give it a bash and see how it turns out..., there is one available that I know of.., maybe I make him an offer and turn into a long term project. I dont see why it shouldnt work, if it does run hot surely a radiator upgrade is the answer..?? (a stronger than std head gasket would also help)....

05-23-2009, 03:13 AM	#93
James Gt EB Scooby Newbie Member#: 127514 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: International Location: Cape Town South Africa Vehicle: 2000 Impreza Blue

06-03-2009, 08:54 PM	#96
Turbotime05 Scooby Newbie Member#: 178524 Join Date: Apr 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle WA Vehicle: 2006 Subaru STI wrb	So i have an 02 wrx with a spun bearing.. been reading about hybrid builds for days and prolly gonna go that route. But a guy near me is selling a closed deck forged ej20g for cheap. This wont work with my 02 heads on it due to a bump in compression? How bad will the diffrence be?.

06-03-2009, 11:08 PM	#97
RealDealTarheel Scooby Specialist Member#: 142447 Join Date: Mar 2007 Chapter/Region: AKIC Location: Not so Fair...banks Vehicle: 2019 Audi S3	It should be a pluck and chuck operation if you're just using the block. Just use the right HG and you shouldn't run into any issues. Correct me if I am wrong Guru's.

12-03-2009, 03:04 AM	#98
Chi_San Scooby Guru Member#: 53558 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Deadford, OR Vehicle: 2005 Baja Turbo White/Silver/Black 3tone	Sorry to bump an old thread, had a question that I couldn't answer by searching. What is the compression ratio on a stock EJ20G?

12-03-2009, 08:49 AM	#99
Marnix Scooby Specialist Member#: 51480 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: International Location: The Netherlands Vehicle: 1984 AM5, 1984 AF1, 1994 BC4, 2015 Outback	8.0 or 8.5 or 9.0 depending on year and application.