The air/water intercooler thead - Page 12

TeddyK · 01-21-2017, 04:30 PM

Still waiting on my WRX unit from my mechanic. Doing a Killer B spoolinator GTX3076r and my AWIC setup since I am working way to much OT and not able to do most of it myself. He told my two weeks maybe three at most; then he lost a bunch of mechanics. His 2 EFI University Certs, Mainline Dyno and his longed Suby experience are the only reason that I let it go this long. I have weird dreams at night about the car; I am missing it so.

Side note regarding pumps - it can depend on where you pump from as jet and centrifugal pumps can push a lot of fluid but cannot pull fluid very well at all hence they need often be primed thoroughly if dry. In our cases they should be at a low spot or at the reservoir like many of us AWIC'ers; and I might be wrong but I reason these above pump types might be "happier" pulling from a larger diameter opening like a reservoir where there is a large area to intake fluids.

Pistons pumps, (like an engine) can do both push and pull very well and it doesn't need priming less it has a habit of collapsing the incoming piping; plus they blow **** up if there is a down stream restriction which is a big downside for us folks. While they are phenomenal at producing EPIC shower head pressure they are probably not for us unless we add pressure relief valve(s).

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Titter · 01-23-2017, 07:02 AM

so they like to push? thats good to know, i thought they liked to pull. right next to the tank seems to make the most sense.

pretty sure the Bosch unit is a centrifugal pump.

vtboost · 03-07-2017, 11:06 PM

So from what I've gathered people have had good luck with antifreeze / water wetter / water mix for their fluid system. Has anyone had issues with the coolant ruining their electric pumps? I'd imagine not but wanted to ask.

I'm in the north east so I have to run some form of coolant unfortunately.

My setup is by no means crazy but I'm still excited to get it installed and plumbed in none the less.

Keep up the good work guys.

AudioRuso · 03-08-2017, 12:50 AM

I believe coolant does add a very thin layer on parts (the stuff that helps metal parts not corrode). I'm not sure it would be enough to mess with a pump.

I will admit mine has been making noises, but I suspect there's air in the system, or my coolant level gets low to the pump inlet on inclines. I'll report back when I investigate after I can drive in to my house after snow melts.

vtboost · 03-10-2017, 06:04 PM

I may order another pump as a backup just in case. Installing all the bits this weekend along with my Cusco bits that have to be installed while the front bumoer is off.

Pics to follow.

Thank you everyone for all the info listed, it's been very helpful thus far

vtboost · 03-12-2017, 04:54 PM

Got everything in, everything went as good as I was hoping. I'm already looking for a bigger heat exchanger but this one will do for now.

Here's a few pics of my 04 FXT

rexworx · 05-23-2017, 10:26 AM

I think something like this is going to be my next step.

91 RS RA · 05-23-2017, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtboost

Got everything in, everything went as good as I was hoping. I'm already looking for a bigger heat exchanger but this one will do for now.

Here's a few pics of my 04 FXT

This is the set up on my car. It came as OEM equipment. I love my WAIC. I have heard they don't flow as well as TMIC's at higher boost, but for what Im running it is fine (Also they used them in the early legacy rally cars so can't flow that bad).
I been for long drives in the hills and when I have stopped I have been able to touch the intercooler and it was cool to touch - try that with a TMIC or even a FMIC

Titter · 05-23-2017, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtboost

Got everything in, everything went as good as I was hoping. I'm already looking for a bigger heat exchanger but this one will do for now.

Here's a few pics of my 04 FXT

just a side note.

as per the mishimoto instructions, your mishimoto rad cap should be on the expansion tank and the oem cap should be on the mishimoto rad or overheating may occur.

CEEBEE · 05-28-2017, 03:06 AM

Just fitted up a new Davies Craig 150lpm water pump for my setup. Just waiting for the motor to be finished and hopefully 550-600whp

[IMG]

[/IMG]

NYC Eng · 06-08-2017, 12:11 PM

Just stumbled upon this thread and I have to say great job to all the guys that did this. In all my years on forums, it goes down as one of the most impressive DIY mods.

I saw some logging data in turbineguy's thread on another forum and was hoping someone could share their own experience.

With regards to being at a standstill / creeping or very slow stop and go traffic. What kind of air intake temps, above ambient temperature do you see?

I do a lot of stop and go driving, sometimes at a complete standstill. With an Air to Air setup, I can see IAT's go 70F above ambient and then they take forever to come down which is why I want to go with an air to water.

For my setup, I was thinking about a heat exchanger with fan's behind it, would probably set them up to come on at speeds below maybe 5mph or maybe the activation should be temperature based?

My car has a turbo timer & coolant pump that remains on for 10mins after shutdown. Was thinking about using that to also keep on the heat exchanger pump and fans behind the heat exchanger.

AudioRuso · 06-09-2017, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC Eng

Just stumbled upon this thread and I have to say great job to all the guys that did this. In all my years on forums, it goes down as one of the most impressive DIY mods.

I saw some logging data in turbineguy's thread on another forum and was hoping someone could share their own experience.

With regards to being at a standstill / creeping or very slow stop and go traffic. What kind of air intake temps, above ambient temperature do you see?

I do a lot of stop and go driving, sometimes at a complete standstill. With an Air to Air setup, I can see IAT's go 70F above ambient and then they take forever to come down which is why I want to go with an air to water.

For my setup, I was thinking about a heat exchanger with fan's behind it, would probably set them up to come on at speeds below maybe 5mph or maybe the activation should be temperature based?

My car has a turbo timer & coolant pump that remains on for 10mins after shutdown. Was thinking about using that to also keep on the heat exchanger pump and fans behind the heat exchanger.

Hey man, as far as logs/experience, although I do not log temps before and after yet (I do not have sensors in place yet), I can tell you that this setup allows me to push almost 300whp out of a vf39 (but doesn't quite want to crest the edge) on 92 pump gas and a very safe tune which is not bad at all.

As far as adding a fan, or using your turbo timer to keep pump on, I honestly don't see the point. I run without fans and touch my WAIC unit from time to time and even stop and go in hot days it's never been hot or even warm to the touch.

The thing that's cool about the setup is the water reservoir gives you a pretty large buffer of cooling power that works while you stand, and since you're not really under boost at that point as long as you're not pulling air directly out of hot engine bay there isn't much of a heating source anyway since the turbo isn't spooling. This is a different story if you're running a hot ram style intake but something like the COBB SF, Stock or CAI all pull air from outside the engine bay.

That's just my opinion, I haven't done too much testing, but I can tell you without a single doubt that I can run much more aggressive timing in just about every scenario knock free over TMIC.

Winterhawk · 06-25-2017, 10:47 AM

I'm new to this forum and just read this. Some of the installs are very impressive. Without getting into if one is better than another I'd like to just make a couple of statements which you can ignore or research yourself.

First of all water to air is not correct, and it's really air to liquid as the heat is transfered from the air to a liquid of your choosing. Very few run straight water. I understand I'm being anal here because it's pretty much a universal thing to call them air to water. Second, they are correctly called charge air coolers because they cool the charged air from the compressor of the turbo supercharger or the mechanical supercharger. Intercooler has become the norm and that's fine, but intercooler came about when you have a multi-stage cooling of the charged air. If you had 2 charge air coolers after the compressor the first was called the intercooler and the second was called the aftercooler. I could go on, but this thread is to discuss real applications and isn't a lecture.

So I'm not trying to change the forum dialog here just thought I'd throw this out in case anyone is interested. FYI, I had 15 years of charge air cooler experience working on large diesel applications, and working with Ford and Mercedes AMG on projects like the Ford Lightning, Ford GT, and various AMG projects like the SLK32 AMG (which I own), etc. Does that make me an expert? Not really, but well informed, because of the experts I worked with.

JMlegacy · 06-28-2017, 01:23 PM

How many of you here running AWIC had run water injection before? Cause I ran an intercooler sprayer for a year then i bite the bullet and went water injection. I'd never do AWIC after having the water injection experience.

Nevertheless, impressive and neat work (Y)

mrp669 · 07-23-2017, 07:09 PM

Thru my research there are better pump options available. Besides lingenfelters/stuart warner emp29, their are Pierburg cwa series pumps that work with a pwm controller like the tecomotive tinycwa: http://www.tecomotive.com/download/m...er_version.pdf
sfracing also has a cwa pump controller as does davie craigs.
Here is a pump flow chart: file:///C:/Users/matt/Downloads/Pumps%20131108%20Descending%20EMP%20CM30%20Chart.p df
here are some other good reads:
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

Voodoo Rufus · 11-16-2017, 02:51 PM

How are these setups holding up under track day sessions?

svynx · 11-20-2017, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMlegacy

How many of you here running AWIC had run water injection before? Cause I ran an intercooler sprayer for a year then i bite the bullet and went water injection. I'd never do AWIC after having the water injection experience.

Nevertheless, impressive and neat work (Y)

No water enters the engine with these. It's a completely separate standalone system. No controllers. They stay on all the time. The only way water would get in the engine would be if the cooler box had a leak in it.

Goldo4fxt · 12-03-2017, 11:42 AM

These setups ave come along way that’s for sure. I remember when I had to be worried about a clog .

Bluedragon87 · 05-21-2018, 12:08 PM

Hi!
I'm interested in AWIC/WAIC at least since I found this thread.
Found this on youtube with Preis and post temperatures of the charge cooler.
https://youtu.be/U8B-A-iOdb4
Does anybody know more about his setup?
Due to other videos in his channel I'm assuming a Type 14 cooler from frozen boost. But in combination with which turbo and power output?
How many power do you guys use the Type 14 for?
I curious because the rated CFM on their HP does not fit the power rating.
Does anyone know why the Type 14 is rated with 700 CFM and the Type 15 with 1.500 CFM when the cross section the air has to pass is equal and only the distance for the air is longer?

Best regards from Germany!

Voodoo Rufus · 05-21-2018, 05:37 PM

I think it's rated for more CFM simply because of the bigger core. More core, more power.

Bluedragon87 · 05-22-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rufus

I think it's rated for more CFM simply because of the bigger core. More core, more power.

But the cross section of the cores are equal according to the given data. It provides only a longer way for the air. Why should that double the flow rating?
Yes, the cooling capacity is increased. But the flow!?

I'm asking these questions because I intend to upgrade my charge cooling system.
My new turbo can provide up to ~60 lbs/min which equals to something around 600 HP.
But 60 lbs/min also equals to ~857 CFM.
I don't want the charge cooler to choke the flow.

Voodoo Rufus · 05-22-2018, 11:20 AM

I doubt it will be choked looking at what they advertise as the pressure drop across it. I would be more worried how you will dissipate the power with your heat exchanger and pump. Those seem to be the largest bottlenecks in AWIC systems I've been researching.

Bluedragon87 · 05-22-2018, 01:19 PM

As I said. I'm curious due to their ratings of Type 14 and 15.
As heat exchanger I have the Type 101 in mind.
http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-air-heat-exchanger/air-to-water-heat-exchanger-p-1026.html
In combination with the Bosch pump (23 l/min) and 3/4 inch hoses should be sufficient, shouldn't it?
Maybe in combination with an additional reservoir.

Voodoo Rufus · 05-22-2018, 03:57 PM

Some people here and elsewhere have used that combo to good success on street and maybe drag. Not sure how it would stand up to track days though.

pcampbell · 05-22-2018, 06:57 PM

Type 101 is really thick. If you have room for it go for it.

I used type 118 for radiator. Type 14 for water/air unit. Type 15 is big.
in my Outback, I was able to just slide the 118 in front of existing radiator grill. It might have been more effective to put it underneath by the lower bumper opening.

The 118 is too thick to raise it up any higher in this pic.. it will hit stuff. So it could have been thinner and less wide but moved up higher for more air flow.

05-28-2017, 03:06 AM	#285
CEEBEE Scooby Newbie Member#: 420458 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Australia Vehicle: 07 WRX STI Urban Grey	Just fitted up a new Davies Craig 150lpm water pump for my setup. Just waiting for the motor to be finished and hopefully 550-600whp [IMG][/IMG]

07-23-2017, 07:09 PM	#290
mrp669 Scooby Newbie Member#: 416220 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Michigan Vehicle: 2006 Wrx Black	Thru my research there are better pump options available. Besides lingenfelters/stuart warner emp29, their are Pierburg cwa series pumps that work with a pwm controller like the tecomotive tinycwa: http://www.tecomotive.com/download/m...er_version.pdf sfracing also has a cwa pump controller as does davie craigs. Here is a pump flow chart: file:///C:/Users/matt/Downloads/Pumps%20131108%20Descending%20EMP%20CM30%20Chart.p df here are some other good reads: https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html Last edited by mrp669; 07-23-2017 at 07:23 PM.

05-21-2018, 12:08 PM	#294
Bluedragon87 Scooby Newbie Member#: 486231 Join Date: May 2018	Hi! I'm interested in AWIC/WAIC at least since I found this thread. Found this on youtube with Preis and post temperatures of the charge cooler. https://youtu.be/U8B-A-iOdb4 Does anybody know more about his setup? Due to other videos in his channel I'm assuming a Type 14 cooler from frozen boost. But in combination with which turbo and power output? How many power do you guys use the Type 14 for? I curious because the rated CFM on their HP does not fit the power rating. Does anyone know why the Type 14 is rated with 700 CFM and the Type 15 with 1.500 CFM when the cross section the air has to pass is equal and only the distance for the air is longer? Best regards from Germany! Last edited by Bluedragon87; 05-22-2018 at 01:46 PM.

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01-21-2017, 04:30 PM	#276
TeddyK Scooby Newbie Member#: 404608 Join Date: Oct 2014 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Renton, WA Vehicle: 2010 WRX sedan DGM	Still waiting on my WRX unit from my mechanic. Doing a Killer B spoolinator GTX3076r and my AWIC setup since I am working way to much OT and not able to do most of it myself. He told my two weeks maybe three at most; then he lost a bunch of mechanics. His 2 EFI University Certs, Mainline Dyno and his longed Suby experience are the only reason that I let it go this long. I have weird dreams at night about the car; I am missing it so. Side note regarding pumps - it can depend on where you pump from as jet and centrifugal pumps can push a lot of fluid but cannot pull fluid very well at all hence they need often be primed thoroughly if dry. In our cases they should be at a low spot or at the reservoir like many of us AWIC'ers; and I might be wrong but I reason these above pump types might be "happier" pulling from a larger diameter opening like a reservoir where there is a large area to intake fluids. Pistons pumps, (like an engine) can do both push and pull very well and it doesn't need priming less it has a habit of collapsing the incoming piping; plus they blow ** up if there is a down stream restriction which is a big downside for us folks. While they are phenomenal at producing EPIC** shower head pressure they are probably not for us unless we add pressure relief valve(s). * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

01-23-2017, 07:02 AM	#277
Titter Scooby Specialist Member#: 416107 Join Date: Mar 2015 Chapter/Region: International Location: Ontario, Canada Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon EJ207 Spec C 4EAT	so they like to push? thats good to know, i thought they liked to pull. right next to the tank seems to make the most sense. pretty sure the Bosch unit is a centrifugal pump.

03-07-2017, 11:06 PM	#278
vtboost Scooby Specialist Member#: 155580 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Southern VT Vehicle: 04 FXT Awesome	So from what I've gathered people have had good luck with antifreeze / water wetter / water mix for their fluid system. Has anyone had issues with the coolant ruining their electric pumps? I'd imagine not but wanted to ask. I'm in the north east so I have to run some form of coolant unfortunately. My setup is by no means crazy but I'm still excited to get it installed and plumbed in none the less. Keep up the good work guys.

03-08-2017, 12:50 AM	#279
AudioRuso Scooby Newbie Member#: 440196 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: South Cle Elum, WA Vehicle: 2008 WRX WRB	I believe coolant does add a very thin layer on parts (the stuff that helps metal parts not corrode). I'm not sure it would be enough to mess with a pump. I will admit mine has been making noises, but I suspect there's air in the system, or my coolant level gets low to the pump inlet on inclines. I'll report back when I investigate after I can drive in to my house after snow melts.

03-10-2017, 06:04 PM	#280
vtboost Scooby Specialist Member#: 155580 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Southern VT Vehicle: 04 FXT Awesome	I may order another pump as a backup just in case. Installing all the bits this weekend along with my Cusco bits that have to be installed while the front bumoer is off. Pics to follow. Thank you everyone for all the info listed, it's been very helpful thus far

03-12-2017, 04:54 PM	#281
vtboost Scooby Specialist Member#: 155580 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Southern VT Vehicle: 04 FXT Awesome	Got everything in, everything went as good as I was hoping. I'm already looking for a bigger heat exchanger but this one will do for now. Here's a few pics of my 04 FXT

05-23-2017, 10:26 AM	#282
rexworx Scooby Guru Member#: 103232 Join Date: Dec 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: GTX3576R 05GD, GTX3076R'd FXT Vehicle: GTX 3071R'd 11WRX PPG,4.44,LSD,E85,6spdx3	I think something like this is going to be my next step.

06-08-2017, 12:11 PM	#286
NYC Eng Scooby Newbie Member#: 408190 Join Date: Dec 2014	Just stumbled upon this thread and I have to say great job to all the guys that did this. In all my years on forums, it goes down as one of the most impressive DIY mods. I saw some logging data in turbineguy's thread on another forum and was hoping someone could share their own experience. With regards to being at a standstill / creeping or very slow stop and go traffic. What kind of air intake temps, above ambient temperature do you see? I do a lot of stop and go driving, sometimes at a complete standstill. With an Air to Air setup, I can see IAT's go 70F above ambient and then they take forever to come down which is why I want to go with an air to water. For my setup, I was thinking about a heat exchanger with fan's behind it, would probably set them up to come on at speeds below maybe 5mph or maybe the activation should be temperature based? My car has a turbo timer & coolant pump that remains on for 10mins after shutdown. Was thinking about using that to also keep on the heat exchanger pump and fans behind the heat exchanger.

06-25-2017, 10:47 AM	#288
Winterhawk Scooby Newbie Member#: 463763 Join Date: Feb 2017 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Whidbey Island, WA Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedan	I'm new to this forum and just read this. Some of the installs are very impressive. Without getting into if one is better than another I'd like to just make a couple of statements which you can ignore or research yourself. First of all water to air is not correct, and it's really air to liquid as the heat is transfered from the air to a liquid of your choosing. Very few run straight water. I understand I'm being anal here because it's pretty much a universal thing to call them air to water. Second, they are correctly called charge air coolers because they cool the charged air from the compressor of the turbo supercharger or the mechanical supercharger. Intercooler has become the norm and that's fine, but intercooler came about when you have a multi-stage cooling of the charged air. If you had 2 charge air coolers after the compressor the first was called the intercooler and the second was called the aftercooler. I could go on, but this thread is to discuss real applications and isn't a lecture. So I'm not trying to change the forum dialog here just thought I'd throw this out in case anyone is interested. FYI, I had 15 years of charge air cooler experience working on large diesel applications, and working with Ford and Mercedes AMG on projects like the Ford Lightning, Ford GT, and various AMG projects like the SLK32 AMG (which I own), etc. Does that make me an expert? Not really, but well informed, because of the experts I worked with.

06-28-2017, 01:23 PM	#289
JMlegacy Scooby Specialist Member#: 341649 Join Date: Dec 2012 Chapter/Region: International Location: Sun City	How many of you here running AWIC had run water injection before? Cause I ran an intercooler sprayer for a year then i bite the bullet and went water injection. I'd never do AWIC after having the water injection experience. Nevertheless, impressive and neat work (Y)

11-16-2017, 02:51 PM	#291
Voodoo Rufus Scooby Newbie Member#: 151528 Join Date: Jun 2007 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Bakersfield, CA Vehicle: 2015 STI Launch Edn. WRB!	How are these setups holding up under track day sessions?

12-03-2017, 11:42 AM	#293
Goldo4fxt Scooby Newbie Member#: 478656 Join Date: Dec 2017	These setups ave come along way that’s for sure. I remember when I had to be worried about a clog .

05-21-2018, 05:37 PM	#295
Voodoo Rufus Scooby Newbie Member#: 151528 Join Date: Jun 2007 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Bakersfield, CA Vehicle: 2015 STI Launch Edn. WRB!	I think it's rated for more CFM simply because of the bigger core. More core, more power.

05-22-2018, 11:20 AM	#297
Voodoo Rufus Scooby Newbie Member#: 151528 Join Date: Jun 2007 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Bakersfield, CA Vehicle: 2015 STI Launch Edn. WRB!	I doubt it will be choked looking at what they advertise as the pressure drop across it. I would be more worried how you will dissipate the power with your heat exchanger and pump. Those seem to be the largest bottlenecks in AWIC systems I've been researching.

05-22-2018, 01:19 PM	#298
Bluedragon87 Scooby Newbie Member#: 486231 Join Date: May 2018	As I said. I'm curious due to their ratings of Type 14 and 15. As heat exchanger I have the Type 101 in mind. http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-air-heat-exchanger/air-to-water-heat-exchanger-p-1026.html In combination with the Bosch pump (23 l/min) and 3/4 inch hoses should be sufficient, shouldn't it? Maybe in combination with an additional reservoir.

05-22-2018, 03:57 PM	#299
Voodoo Rufus Scooby Newbie Member#: 151528 Join Date: Jun 2007 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Bakersfield, CA Vehicle: 2015 STI Launch Edn. WRB!	Some people here and elsewhere have used that combo to good success on street and maybe drag. Not sure how it would stand up to track days though.

05-22-2018, 06:57 PM	#300
pcampbell Scooby Specialist Member#: 437670 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: VT Vehicle: 2005 2.5 SC OB	Type 101 is really thick. If you have room for it go for it. I used type 118 for radiator. Type 14 for water/air unit. Type 15 is big. in my Outback, I was able to just slide the 118 in front of existing radiator grill. It might have been more effective to put it underneath by the lower bumper opening. The 118 is too thick to raise it up any higher in this pic.. it will hit stuff. So it could have been thinner and less wide but moved up higher for more air flow.