The air/water intercooler thead

[mrp669]

I have a Precision Turbo pt1001 with opposed 3inch in out with speed density and a Dom 1.5xtr. The intercooler temp doesn't budge except during parked heat soak, that takes about 5 mins of driving to bring back down near ambient. I have two Slimline 11 inch fans on the he. 2005.5 obxt and the size 100 (24x12x1)frozen boost radiator blocked proper air flow to condenser and radiator. My tune had to be way enriched I believe due to the low air restriction(low pressure drop) of the intercooler. I custom built 2 gal reservoir to replace the washer fluid bottle. I am currently running a jabsco 12v pump wide open all the time.

I will be switching to the bmw/mercedes bosch pump with a pwm controller from sfr racing. I believe running a pump at 100% induces pump heat into the coolant, I'm guessing about a 2*f rise from it. I have my pump directly before the ic, after my res and he, so the he can't remove that heat until after it has passed thru the ic.

My other plan is to remove my he and go with a dedicated a/c water cooler like the killer chiller or interchiller type systems to keep my iat 20-30*f BELOW ambient!

I will update again when done with current upgrade plans.

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[Voodoo Rufus]

Originally Posted by mrp669

I will be switching to the bmw/mercedes bosch pump with a pwm controller from sfr racing. I believe running a pump at 100% induces pump heat into the coolant, I'm guessing about a 2*f rise from it. I have my pump directly before the ic, after my res and he, so the he can't remove that heat until after it has passed thru the ic.

I doubt the pump is adding much heat to the water. If you measured the water temp before/after the pump I bet it would be hard to differentiate.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your alterations.

[mrp669]

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rufus

I doubt the pump is adding much heat to the water. If you measured the water temp before/after the pump I bet it would be hard to differentiate.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your alterations.

I've definitely seen studies where the more powerful the pump(like lingenfelters wp29) the more likely it is to boil the coolant at the impeller

[Voodoo Rufus]

That would be impressive and scary at the same time. That's a 400W nominal pump, or a little more than 1/2HP. To boil the fluid, the incoming water would already have to be hot. That pump has a really nice pressure-flowrate curve, though.

[mrp669]

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rufus

That would be impressive and scary at the same time. That's a 400W nominal pump, or a little more than 1/2HP. To boil the fluid, the incoming water would already have to be hot. That pump has a really nice pressure-flowrate curve, though.

Coolant boiling temp increases with psi while it lessens in a vacuum. If the pump is serious enough it can cavitate or cold boil the coolant under extreme suction. http://penray.com/cooling-system-techfacts/cavitation-in-cooling-sytems/
Cavitation adds froth to the coolant which reduces it's ability to remove heat.

[Westyman]

Ive got a 04 forester 2.5xt engine in a VW vanagon (rear mounted engine)
I used a Frozenboost AWIC intercooler, bosch cobra pump, and then a heat exchanger mounted in a vent. Getting good airflow in the back of a van is hard. Ive also got a 7" fan on the heat exchanger that kicks on when air temps "after" the IC hit 110ºF.

Long story short, I am seeing air temps after the AWIC about 30º above ambient and even higher when pulling a mountain pass or something. (Van weighs almost 6,000lbs)

The highest temps Ive seen are like 145ºF.
At what temps should I be concerned?

Note I'm running stock boost, stock turbo, so the AWIC should be kinda overkill.

[mrp669]

Originally Posted by Westyman

Ive got a 04 forester 2.5xt engine in a VW vanagon (rear mounted engine)
I used a Frozenboost AWIC intercooler, bosch cobra pump, and then a heat exchanger mounted in a vent. Getting good airflow in the back of a van is hard. Ive also got a 7" fan on the heat exchanger that kicks on when air temps "after" the IC hit 110ºF.

Long story short, I am seeing air temps after the AWIC about 30º above ambient and even higher when pulling a mountain pass or something. (Van weighs almost 6,000lbs)

The highest temps Ive seen are like 145ºF.
At what temps should I be concerned?

Note I'm running stock boost, stock turbo, so the AWIC should be kinda overkill.

I would add a reservoir after your heat exchanger and activate the fan at about 5*f over ambient. Are you running all 3/4 inch line to match the pump? Your temps are not horrible, could definitely be better! but I would talk to your tuner about your highest iat reading. My iat stays rock steady about 5*f over ambient at 14lbs boost even on 130mph runs...

[Westyman]

Originally Posted by mrp669

I would add a reservoir after your heat exchanger and activate the fan at about 5*f over ambient. Are you running all 3/4 inch line to match the pump? Your temps are not horrible, could definitely be better! but I would talk to your tuner about your highest iat reading. My iat stays rock steady about 5*f over ambient at 14lbs boost even on 130mph runs...

Thanks for the response,
I do have a coolant reservoir. I dropped the hose down to 5/8" heater hose from the 3/4". I just ordered some scoops to help duct air into the vent where the heat exchanger is located. Im thinking that will help significantly.

[adosdrummer]

I built a a2w system on my lgt a few years back.. I used frozenboost's type 16 core. I was tired of blowing end tanks so since I had all the parts lying about I fabbed it up. Transient boost felt like a buddys ported td04 with a mbc with my vf52. It was instant.

I picked up a good bit on the top end by holding boost longer. And being able to lean the afr's to right around 11.9 and added 3 degrees of timing. I was seeing about 3.6grev mid range at 19psi.

supporting mods
perrin elh
ewg
grimspeed inlet pipe
dp
stock intake with resonator removed
tgv delete.

Now a friend of mine has bought most of my parts. He has a perrin top mount right now but in a month or so we will be swapping my a2w setup on to his car. So that will be a cool comparison between the perrin vs the type 16.

[91 RS RA]

I love A2W intercoolers, next turbo car will have an air to water.
Yes it adds a bit of complexity and a bit more weight, but the cooling performance and better response due to short distance between turbo and intake definitely make up of any of the downsides.

[panel]

Do you have to run an external tank for the AWIC? Can the AWIC itself be the tank ? I see mostly trunk tanks for ice etc but for a street car is it necessary ?

[pcampbell]

Ice with big tank is mainly for a drag car. They can get the intake temps below ambient with large tank with ice or ice water. For a street car a small reservoir is ok. You want at least a small reservoir probably. I don’t know if it’s work having none unless perhaps you AW radiator has a fill cap that is easily accessible. Mine does not , it only has side and bottom fittings. My reservoir is tiny , like 16oz although more is probably better.

[Voodoo Rufus]

The only reason to have a large tank is to slow down the rate of water temp rise if you don't have enough heat exchanger capacity to dissipate the heat. Trunk tanks get the reservoir away from engine bay heat, but that's not likely a huge issue for track use once the car is moving and has airflow.

[panel]

Is there many air to air intercoolers being used as a donor to convert over to water to air? For example..... lets say a TMIC , and boxing it in and running your inlet/outlets on the sides or fronts etc ?

[Voodoo Rufus]

Yes, but you don't want to do that. An air to air is designed for high air flow rates for the charge air and cooling air, which means larger spacing for fins and plates to lessen the pressure drop. For forcing water through those large gaps you will not have as efficient of a heat transfer. The water side of a good AWIC will tend to have tighter spacing and designed for water as the heat transfer medium, while the charge air side will see a similar flow regime as an air to air intercooler.

[Homemade WRX]

Yeah, if you compare the fin sides of the water side to the air side, you'll notice the water side is notably smaller/tighter.

Water transfers about 5x that of air.

I know there had been guys trying the home converted route on tmic YEARS back.

[Bluedragon87]

Originally Posted by adosdrummer

I built a a2w system on my lgt a few years back.. I used frozenboost's type 16 core.
[...]
Now a friend of mine has bought most of my parts. He has a perrin top mount right now but in a month or so we will be swapping my a2w setup on to his car. So that will be a cool comparison between the perrin vs the type 16.

Hey there!
Is there an update regarding this direct comparison available?
I'm fighting with myself to realise a AWIC setup...

Regards from Germany!

[pcampbell]

Will a type 14 fit easily???? They say the type 13 is good for "350hp". My SC output is 2.75", the TB is 2.75" roughly and the AWIC is 2.5", I imagine this is less than ideal? I'm sure I'm > 350hp too.

Can anyone tell me what silicone adapter to use between a type 14 and TB (assuming all TB's are the same OD?). I have a type 13 and it's tiny. I'd love to go type 14, but It doesn't seem like it should fit??? Is there any trick or will it just plop in there? I think a 3" to 2.75" should do it?

Here is my type 13:

[Bluedragon87]

Originally Posted by pcampbell

Will a type 14 fit easily???? They say the type 13 is good for "350hp". My SC output is 2.75", the TB is 2.75" roughly and the AWIC is 2.5", I imagine this is less than ideal? I'm sure I'm > 350hp too.

Here is my type 13:

I can't answer your questions. Butmay a Type 19 (http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/long-flow-style-water-to-air-intercooler-p-219.html) fit in your application!? Or even a Type 26?

[pcampbell]

I was hoping for a bend IO because the TB is effectively holding up the AWIC. My current one has no mounting brackets, just the pipes and silicone.

[dokalanyi]

Originally Posted by Krang

Update on mine now that it's complete.

What are all the hoses coming from the tank?
I know 1 goes to the pump, the other returns from the heat exchanger. What are the other 2?

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by dokalanyi

What are all the hoses coming from the tank?
I know 1 goes to the pump, the other returns from the heat exchanger. What are the other 2?

Maybe drainline and vent?

[smoky]

A few pictures of my setup: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...hENG5NXzdBc093

[TeddyK]

Been at least a minute or many since I replied on this thread. Anyways here are a couple of pics:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qDiZergjX3CqNCvC6

This has a modified Type 26 Intercooler from FrozenBoost with a tank in the trunk coupled to a Meziere Pump that is all-to-recommended.....which I think is a problem.

Completely custom setup paid to skilled mechanics at InFront Automotive.

On the first tune encountered temps not past 85° F--this was with BC 272 Stage 2 Cams, otherwise stock heads and KillerB's spoolinator 3076 Gen 1; I was very happy!

This IC pump has since degraded in a years time and can no longer flow enough to handle the new TQ and HP that the stage 3 cams and +1mm Valves. Also, I can feel the water flow on the return line into the tank that it barely flows like it used to.

I later read that these Meziere pumps tended to do that in the GM/aftermarket supercharged GT--like car forums.

Going Forward: Seek out a Lingenfelter modded Stewart pump which seems to be a kickass pump.

Here is what convinced me on the Lingenfelter pump: http://www.lingenfelter.com/forum_li...esting-results

Overall though: I am Happy about the BoomBa Throttle body. The exhaust note and throttle response is awesome!

Serious note: Consider Boomba Throttle Bodies. They are the most stout throttle bodies ever made for us. FYI, they are engineered one percentage tick beyond Poiseuille’s law. I think.... very close. It is better have flow than pressure build up.

[TeddyK]

Or do not aim to my level of aftermarket....................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................That Is OKAY