2015 WRX auto-x impressions - Page 3

jesup16 · 08-15-2014, 08:33 AM

Not bad for a first autocross. Our clubs motto is "Push Harder, Suck Less".

It translates to:
1. Pusher Harder = Drive to the limit of your tires. If you're on street tires, they will communicate at their limit. Your tires should be howling in almost every corner.
2. Suck Less = Try to drive the ideal line racing line and stay committed to that line.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Mrlaigle · 08-15-2014, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesup16

Not bad for a first autocross. Our clubs motto is "Push Harder, Suck Less".

It translates to:
1. Pusher Harder = Drive to the limit of your tires. If you're on street tires, they will communicate at their limit. Your tires should be howling in almost every corner.
2. Suck Less = Try to drive the ideal line racing line and stay committed to that line.

Haha that's the plan going forward. Suck less. Now that I'm addicted I need to get out there again. I did pretty well in the slalom. Definitely could go much faster in the turns. I didn't experience any understeer. Car went exactly where I wanted it. Im sure that's because I want pushing hard enough.

gary p · 08-17-2014, 06:06 PM

My second event in the car. Finished second in class to a Integra Type R driven by a former Ladies Naitonal Champion, 8th on PAX. Coned away the class win and ~5th on PAX on an earlier run. Car is still completely stock other than -1.4* negative camber. I love the power delivery and agility, still have too much understeer in the sweepers. Way better autocross car than my recently retired 2006 RTA/DS WRX. While I'm a long-time autocrosser, this is only my 4th event in the last two years so I'm still a bit rusty.

YouTube (Short URL)

epv · 08-18-2014, 09:08 AM

Won my class by 0.013s and finished 15th out of 117 in PAX. I'm pretty sure I had ~0.5s more time in the course because I dropped out of boost twice and some of it was pretty sloppy still. Detailed results are here. The car under-steers but it doesn't feel particularly slow, a little lift and it tucks itself right back in and you just roll into the throttle as you unwind the wheel.

This is in a bone stock car. I think with good tires and wheels this car will punch really close to its pax, if not be an over dog. I could see a little stiffer rear bar, but I don't think you want so much that you start triking around corners. I was running 40psi in the front and 35psi in back. I let it drift up to ~42psi in the front and was still getting roll over on the tires.

rustyshackelford · 08-18-2014, 01:58 PM

Here's one of my 2015 recently, used 255 Rivals and 2* of camber, still adjusting from the '12 to the '15 (always disable all traction control, incl torque vectoring)

http://youtu.be/QLITcyG9jwk

jesup16 · 08-18-2014, 02:54 PM

^ Definitely driving to the tires/cars limits. Hard to tell from the video, but it looked like you were a little late in some corners...could just be the camera angle, as I'm not able to see the cones on the right side of the car. Looked like a fun configuration of sweepers and transitions.

epv · 09-02-2014, 04:27 PM

Wayne is doing work. Leading DS by 0.267s after day 1. Anyone know if he is on here, or if someone could interrogate him about how he ended up setting it up?

bslate3 · 09-02-2014, 10:22 PM

Very Impressive for a 2015 WRX to be winning DS at Nationals! Awesome!

Sent from my XT1023 using NASIOC mobile app

ABQautoxer · 09-02-2014, 11:56 PM

I interviewed him (pit reporter). He has an alignment and a bar change. Otherwise just very nice driving.

epv · 09-03-2014, 05:55 PM

Wayne ended up in second 0.155s. Sounded like he just couldn't get a clean run day 2 being 0.5s off the pace.

tuskenraider · 09-04-2014, 01:28 AM

Hi guys,

A disappointing day, but with this being only the 4th event in the car, I guess I can't complain about the result. The car was very neutral on the TnT track and the West course with those being the first runs with the smaller front bar. I was fairly happy with it.........but it was unexpectedly pushy everywhere on the East course. First run was just trying to manage washout on every turn. Second run was more settled as I knew what to expect and I blew it on the third run, plain and simple. I was saving a rear toe out adjustment as a last resort, but with the success on the West course, left it alone for the next day. I wasn't going to change it mid runs. I felt I needed to run the car as is and see if I could adjust. The car had the time to match the best of the day in class, but a hot slalom entry threw everything to **** on the third run.

It wasn't unnoticed I was the only car on Rivals in the class. I'll test some new tires in the future. I stayed on them for the new car as it was one carryover from the old car to compare to. Whether the pushiness on the East course was attributed to the tires supposed adverse performance to rubbered in courses will be a bit of an unknown for now, but I spent some time in the BFG trailer with those that are aware of this possible "issue" before I took my first run on Tuesday.

Koni says shocks will likely be available next spring. Stock shocks are fantastic, but adjust ability to assist rotation will help.

As Tom noted, I'm currently running a smaller 22mm front bar, 0 toe alignment all around with max front camber at a lame -1.4L, -1.2R. I've tested a 25mm rear bar vs. stock at Milwaukee's site and it didn't help one bit with rotation, so it came off. Instead of trying to loosen the rear with a big bar unsuccessfully, a smaller bar was put on to assist front grip and I believe it helped. I may go down to a 21mm stocker from the older car.

I'm running 18 in. Enkei PF01's with 245/40/18 Rivals for the extra gearing. Car now hits the rev limiter at 63mph, which I hit once today on the faster of the two courses.....perfect.

Also, I do have Nameless mufflers mostly for sound.

Small weight savings of about 22 lbs. between mufflers and wheels. Fighting weight for my base model with an 1/8 tank of gas is 3145 lbs. 85 lbs. heavier than my old '11.

Cheers,

Wayne

gary p · 09-04-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuskenraider

.... max front camber at a lame -1.4L, -1.2R.

The disparity of available camber adjustment in the early (and small) sample is weird. I was able to get -1.9* R but could only get -1.5* out of the L. (FWIW, I backed the right down to a matching -1.5*) Rusty said he got -2* on both sides. You say you're maxed at -1.2* on the R.

rustyshackelford · 09-04-2014, 12:48 PM

Wayne thanks for the write up, I was already pestering Tom to get more details haha. How do you run the T/C? All off or do you leave torque vectoring on? To be exact my camber was -1.9* rf and lf and -2.0* lr -2.4 rr zero toe all the way around. I am also fighting the push on sweepers but slaloms feel way better than my '12 (I do miss the hatch functionality too).

MaddMax · 09-04-2014, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuskenraider

As Tom noted, I'm currently running a smaller 22mm front bar, 0 toe alignment all around with max front camber at a lame -1.4L, -1.2R. I've tested a 25mm rear bar vs. stock at Milwaukee's site and it didn't help one bit with rotation, so it came off. Instead of trying to loosen the rear with a big bar unsuccessfully, a smaller bar was put on to assist front grip and I believe it helped. I may go down to a 21mm stocker from the older car.

Which smaller bar are you running? Is it from the GR WRX's?

RaceComp Engineering · 09-04-2014, 03:00 PM

Putting on STI front struts is an idea...they have a good amount more low speed damping and should swap right over.

- Andy

tuskenraider · 09-04-2014, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyshackelford

Wayne thanks for the write up, I was already pestering Tom to get more details haha. How do you run the T/C? All off or do you leave torque vectoring on? To be exact my camber was -1.9* rf and lf and -2.0* lr -2.4 rr zero toe all the way around. I am also fighting the push on sweepers but slaloms feel way better than my '12 (I do miss the hatch functionality too).

I haven't tried the torque vectoring and don't have the slightest bit of curiosity at the moment. I can't believe it'll help with autox, but who knows. I have -2.1 LR and -2.0 RR camber, FYI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaddMax

Which smaller bar are you running? Is it from the GR WRX's?

I have my Whiteline GR bar on. There is only about .5-1 mm clearance between it and what I believe is the electronic power steering casing, but it fits. Also, the brackets are a little bigger and while they hold the smaller bar bushings OK, GR brackets will be ideal so I'll be ordering some. Any bigger aftermarket GR bar will not fit since there are no bends for clearance. I'm not sure the factory 11-14 bar will fit until I get my hands back on one to compare to the stock 15 bar. I can't see a market for a smaller bar.........so what's out there that fits is it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering

Putting on STI front struts is an idea...they have a good amount more low speed damping and should swap right over.

- Andy

In your opinion, what would be the benefit that would provide?

RaceComp Engineering · 09-05-2014, 01:34 PM

Here is the shock dyno comparing WRX and STI fronts (rears are the same).

My thinking is that you'd go with a slightly larger rear bar and use the extra front low speed rebound from the monotube STI struts to sharpen response and improve transitions.

Just an idea.

- Andy

gary p · 09-05-2014, 02:46 PM

More low speed damping up front would theoretically allow you to run a smaller sway bar up front for a more neutral balance in sweepers while still maintaining stability in transitional elements.

Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

ABQautoxer · 09-05-2014, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyshackelford

Wayne thanks for the write up, I was already pestering Tom to get more details haha. How do you run the T/C? All off or do you leave torque vectoring on? To be exact my camber was -1.9* rf and lf and -2.0* lr -2.4 rr zero toe all the way around. I am also fighting the push on sweepers but slaloms feel way better than my '12 (I do miss the hatch functionality too).

Keep in mind Paul's camber gauge is consistently reading -.5 too much. So you have .5 less negative camber than you think Chris. The one Andrew built for me is accurate.

RaceComp Engineering · 09-05-2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary p

More low speed damping up front would theoretically allow you to run a smaller sway bar up front for a more neutral balance in sweepers while still maintaining stability in transitional elements.

Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

Or keep stock front bar and go bigger rear for the neutral balance while keeping stability during transitions.

Either way, I think it's worth trying.

- Andy

tuskenraider · 09-05-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering

Or keep stock front bar and go bigger rear for the neutral balance while keeping stability during transitions.

Either way, I think it's worth trying.

- Andy

I tried the 25mm rear and got no such effect. I had rear tire pressures up to 50 psi along with it, without effect of loosening the rear. I also had a couple of national level competitors, who know suspension, in the car to confirm my assessment before pulling it off. I am in no way a suspension expert, but know the general platform. with this being my fourth WRX. My results might be unique to my driving style, so my focus will be on maximizing front grip and I'll get back to the rear with toe adjustments and shocks. Your input is certainly appreciated and suggestions seem reasonable.

To note further, nobody found the 24mm or 25mm front bar options the way to go with the last chasis. With the stiffer body, spring rates, shocks and sway bars of the new one, Subaru just may have been to aggressive with the front end from an autox perspective. There are plenty of examples I've seen over the years of competition where a going bigger and stiffer on the suspension bits is not the fastest setup. With only one choice of front or rear bar changes, options are limited and tricky when combined with all the other available changes within the rule set. Good luck to everyone finding the combination that works for them.......

epv · 09-05-2014, 05:38 PM

If a small bar up front ends up being the right answer it would be nice if Whiteline or someone else would make a purpose part. Would be mildly annoying to have to go find someone with an old car to buy a bar off of.

gary p · 09-06-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuskenraider

I tried the 25mm rear and got no such effect. I had rear tire pressures up to 50 psi along with it, without effect of loosening the rear. I also had a couple of national level competitors, who know suspension, in the car to confirm my assessment before pulling it off..

Were you hiking the inside rear wheel up off the ground with the bigger rear bar? Maybe the stock rear bar is right at the threshold of that, meaning any more rear bar doesn't really help.

tuskenraider · 09-06-2014, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary p

Were you hiking the inside rear wheel up off the ground with the bigger rear bar? Maybe the stock rear bar is right at the threshold of that, meaning any more rear bar doesn't really help.

No pulling up of the rear was felt by me or noticed by those I had watching the car, and there was a bit of additional wheel spin with the bigger bar. The wheel spin would have been tolerable had the bar given the desired effect.

Splash · 09-06-2014, 09:25 PM

IMO, even on the older chassis, subtle front bar changes make big differences, while it takes wild changes on rear bar to notice it much. One thing for sure, inside rear wheelspin is bad ju ju, especially if you're a left-foot-braker.

What I'm surprised of, is that the smaller front bar didn't aggravate an already camber-sensitive situation.

09-04-2014, 01:28 AM	#61
tuskenraider Scooby Specialist Member#: 65699 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.S. Chicago Vehicle: 15 WRX WR Blue	Hi guys, A disappointing day, but with this being only the 4th event in the car, I guess I can't complain about the result. The car was very neutral on the TnT track and the West course with those being the first runs with the smaller front bar. I was fairly happy with it.........but it was unexpectedly pushy everywhere on the East course. First run was just trying to manage washout on every turn. Second run was more settled as I knew what to expect and I blew it on the third run, plain and simple. I was saving a rear toe out adjustment as a last resort, but with the success on the West course, left it alone for the next day. I wasn't going to change it mid runs. I felt I needed to run the car as is and see if I could adjust. The car had the time to match the best of the day in class, but a hot slalom entry threw everything to **** on the third run. It wasn't unnoticed I was the only car on Rivals in the class. I'll test some new tires in the future. I stayed on them for the new car as it was one carryover from the old car to compare to. Whether the pushiness on the East course was attributed to the tires supposed adverse performance to rubbered in courses will be a bit of an unknown for now, but I spent some time in the BFG trailer with those that are aware of this possible "issue" before I took my first run on Tuesday. Koni says shocks will likely be available next spring. Stock shocks are fantastic, but adjust ability to assist rotation will help. As Tom noted, I'm currently running a smaller 22mm front bar, 0 toe alignment all around with max front camber at a lame -1.4L, -1.2R. I've tested a 25mm rear bar vs. stock at Milwaukee's site and it didn't help one bit with rotation, so it came off. Instead of trying to loosen the rear with a big bar unsuccessfully, a smaller bar was put on to assist front grip and I believe it helped. I may go down to a 21mm stocker from the older car. I'm running 18 in. Enkei PF01's with 245/40/18 Rivals for the extra gearing. Car now hits the rev limiter at 63mph, which I hit once today on the faster of the two courses.....perfect. Also, I do have Nameless mufflers mostly for sound. Small weight savings of about 22 lbs. between mufflers and wheels. Fighting weight for my base model with an 1/8 tank of gas is 3145 lbs. 85 lbs. heavier than my old '11. Cheers, Wayne Last edited by tuskenraider; 09-04-2014 at 01:33 AM.

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08-15-2014, 08:33 AM	#51
jesup16 Scooby Newbie Member#: 306393 Join Date: Jan 2012 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Atlanta, GA Vehicle: 2017 GTI DSG '99 Corvette FRC	Not bad for a first autocross. Our clubs motto is "Push Harder, Suck Less". It translates to: 1. Pusher Harder = Drive to the limit of your tires. If you're on street tires, they will communicate at their limit. Your tires should be howling in almost every corner. 2. Suck Less = Try to drive the ideal line racing line and stay committed to that line. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

08-18-2014, 09:08 AM	#54
epv Scooby Newbie Member#: 381966 Join Date: Feb 2014 Vehicle: 2015 WRX WRB	Won my class by 0.013s and finished 15th out of 117 in PAX. I'm pretty sure I had ~0.5s more time in the course because I dropped out of boost twice and some of it was pretty sloppy still. Detailed results are here. The car under-steers but it doesn't feel particularly slow, a little lift and it tucks itself right back in and you just roll into the throttle as you unwind the wheel. This is in a bone stock car. I think with good tires and wheels this car will punch really close to its pax, if not be an over dog. I could see a little stiffer rear bar, but I don't think you want so much that you start triking around corners. I was running 40psi in the front and 35psi in back. I let it drift up to ~42psi in the front and was still getting roll over on the tires.

08-18-2014, 02:54 PM	#56
jesup16 Scooby Newbie Member#: 306393 Join Date: Jan 2012 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Atlanta, GA Vehicle: 2017 GTI DSG '99 Corvette FRC	^ Definitely driving to the tires/cars limits. Hard to tell from the video, but it looked like you were a little late in some corners...could just be the camera angle, as I'm not able to see the cones on the right side of the car. Looked like a fun configuration of sweepers and transitions.

09-02-2014, 04:27 PM	#57
epv Scooby Newbie Member#: 381966 Join Date: Feb 2014 Vehicle: 2015 WRX WRB	Wayne is doing work. Leading DS by 0.267s after day 1. Anyone know if he is on here, or if someone could interrogate him about how he ended up setting it up?

09-02-2014, 10:22 PM	#58
bslate3 Scooby Specialist Member#: 246271 Join Date: May 2010 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Crowley, TX Vehicle: 2011 WRX WRB	Very Impressive for a 2015 WRX to be winning DS at Nationals! Awesome! Sent from my XT1023 using NASIOC mobile app

09-02-2014, 11:56 PM	#59
ABQautoxer Scooby Specialist Member#: 198231 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Albuquerque, NM Vehicle: 2007 Not a Subaru	I interviewed him (pit reporter). He has an alignment and a bar change. Otherwise just very nice driving.

09-03-2014, 05:55 PM	#60
epv Scooby Newbie Member#: 381966 Join Date: Feb 2014 Vehicle: 2015 WRX WRB	Wayne ended up in second 0.155s. Sounded like he just couldn't get a clean run day 2 being 0.5s off the pace.

09-04-2014, 12:48 PM	#63
rustyshackelford Scooby Newbie Member#: 152733 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: abq	Wayne thanks for the write up, I was already pestering Tom to get more details haha. How do you run the T/C? All off or do you leave torque vectoring on? To be exact my camber was -1.9* rf and lf and -2.0* lr -2.4 rr zero toe all the way around. I am also fighting the push on sweepers but slaloms feel way better than my '12 (I do miss the hatch functionality too).

09-04-2014, 03:00 PM	#65
RaceComp Engineering NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54202 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Elkridge, Maryland Vehicle: ASK ABOUT NEW RCE SWAY BARS FOR STI	Putting on STI front struts is an idea...they have a good amount more low speed damping and should swap right over. - Andy

09-05-2014, 01:34 PM	#67
RaceComp Engineering NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54202 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Elkridge, Maryland Vehicle: ASK ABOUT NEW RCE SWAY BARS FOR STI	Here is the shock dyno comparing WRX and STI fronts (rears are the same). My thinking is that you'd go with a slightly larger rear bar and use the extra front low speed rebound from the monotube STI struts to sharpen response and improve transitions. Just an idea. - Andy

09-05-2014, 02:46 PM	#68
gary p Scooby Newbie Member#: 17664 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: "Down-State" Illinois Vehicle: 2017 Impreza Spt MT Crystal White	More low speed damping up front would theoretically allow you to run a smaller sway bar up front for a more neutral balance in sweepers while still maintaining stability in transitional elements. Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

09-05-2014, 05:38 PM	#72
epv Scooby Newbie Member#: 381966 Join Date: Feb 2014 Vehicle: 2015 WRX WRB	If a small bar up front ends up being the right answer it would be nice if Whiteline or someone else would make a purpose part. Would be mildly annoying to have to go find someone with an old car to buy a bar off of.

09-06-2014, 09:25 PM	#75
Splash Scooby Specialist Member#: 55936 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus, OH Vehicle: 04 WRX STi PSM	IMO, even on the older chassis, subtle front bar changes make big differences, while it takes wild changes on rear bar to notice it much. One thing for sure, inside rear wheelspin is bad ju ju, especially if you're a left-foot-braker. What I'm surprised of, is that the smaller front bar didn't aggravate an already camber-sensitive situation.