2022 BRZ now arriving at Dealers...

[heavyD]

Originally Posted by pearljam11

The BRZ does not need more power. It's incredibly fun as it is. If you've driven one, you know that. If you think it needs forced induction buy a WRX or something else.

I tend to agree. Although I've not driven the new one, the acceleration numbers are right in line with a lot of higher HP compact cars. C&D clocked the 2023 BRZ at 5.4 sec 0-60 and 13-9 1/4 mile which isn't far off the last gen STI performance.

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[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by pearljam11

The BRZ does not need more power. It's incredibly fun as it is. If you've driven one, you know that. If you think it needs forced induction buy a WRX or something else.

I would love to buy something else, but there there is nothing else that is in the same weight & size class as the BRZ/86.
FR/FMR, 6MT, 2+2 - it's BRZ/86 OR Mustang/Camaro/M2 which are all ~1,000lbs heavier & bigger.
FR/FMR, 6MT, 4dr - CT4V-BW,CT5V-BW, M3 again, all at least 1,000lbs heavier & bigger.

WRX is a totally different type of car, for starters, it ISN'T RWD, it's a lot heavier, has a similar power to weight ratio as the BRZ and puts down similar 0-60 & 1/4 mile times to the BRZ, but has open diffs; it's not a performance car, it's a quicker than average commuter. If I were considering AWD, the GRC would be the most logical choice, but I don't want AWD, I want RWD.

Originally Posted by heavyD

I tend to agree. Although I've not driven the new one, the acceleration numbers are right in line with a lot of higher HP compact cars. C&D clocked the 2023 BRZ at 5.4 sec 0-60 and 13-9 1/4 mile which isn't far off the last gen STI performance.

I haven't driven the second gen either, but the first gens I drove left me wanting more power. Based on the numbers the second gen is putting down, although improved from the first gen, it's going to leave me wanting more power as well. Alternatively, a ~2,300lb BRZ/86 sized vehicle with 228hp would be preferred, but a BRZ/86 losing ~600lbs is significantly less likely than a BRZ/86 gaining ~60-70hp (& ~100-200lbs).

I felt similarly about Miata's; NB2, ND1 & ND2 are my favorite models from a styling standpoint, but when I drove NAs & NBs I always was left wanting more power, and stiffer suspension, Miata has always been too soft for me. Not that a Miata works for me now as I'm looking for 2+2, but the ND2 has a similar power:weight ratio as the BRZ/86, people have always made the same argument "Miata doesn't need more power" but for a lot of people, it has and still does.

I'll still test drive a 2nd gen BRZ/86 when there are more of them around, but it's got a worse power:weight ratio than my stock RWD sedan.

[samagon]

driving the first gen BRZ was an exercise in gokarting.

granted I had a 2018, so I had the benefit of the shorter rear end gearing, but if you kept it above the torque **** zone, it was a fun drive even with no power. it felt like a RWD version of my GSR.

maybe I'm too generous, or maybe I am misremenbering my GSR.

[OldBlu]

Can someone answer me a simple question? What sub 3,000lb rwd 2+2 with a 10:1 ratio and a $45k price tag (consider inflation) has ever existed in the last 25 years?

Like Corvettes are a little heavy but at least have a good ratio. The FD RX-7 gets close since it's so light. But both of those cars have no rear seat.

What precedent is there to even have this expectation? Maybe I just have a huge blindspot I'm not considering. But as safety emissions considerations make cars heavier and more complicated in the modern era, I don't understand where the expectation for lighter cars with better ratios for cheap is coming from.

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

40k isn't what I'm willing to pay, I looked at the spread on the existing BRZ/86 models and made an estimate of what I thought it would cost.

45k for a BRZ/GR86 with 300/300 under/around 3,000lbs, sign me up.

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Scroll all the way back and look at my posts in this thread; I have been saying essentially the same thing from the beginning: I want a 300/300 BRZ/86 from the factory; there were rumors that the G16E-GTS would make it's way into the car, it would be the simplest choice, as neither Toyota or Subaru make an NA-4 that makes 300hp (and if they did, it certainly wouldn't make the torque). I guessed an MSRP around 40k in July for that theoretical trim/model, but would be willing to pay 45k for one if it was made.

You are the one who suggested a boosted first gen, not me, I outlined the issues of putting boost through a high compression engine & a driveline that was never designed for it (heat, increased wear/reduced longevity) you were the one who said "you don't technically need to increase cooling", I disagreed; now you're back peddling and talking about your own heat issues in your boosted BRZ where you've made attempts to address cooling.

I haven't moved a single goal post - I want what I've always wanted, based on a lifetime of owning & modifying performance/muscle cars. A lightweight, 6mt 2+2, RWD car with a power:weight of 1hp:10lbs (or better) from the factory.

If I'm going to heavily modify something, I want it to be older so I'm not restricted by CARB compliance.



I have kids in the back of my car every day; this would be a second car, not replace my daily, but I know I'd likely grab it's keys over my IS keys, until the snow flies that is.

Ok i went back and it says nothing like you claimed. I'm sorry you live in your own fantasy world. I'm extremely sorry that you decided to just make stuff up to a person that spent 7 years talking to owners of boosted brzs that autocross, track, and daily, their cars be it turbo, positive displacement, or centrifugal supercharger. Not only that I had multiple calls on the phone with IAG who built my 8000 rpm 12.5:1 compression engine, Counterspace garage who turned it, and jackson racing who made the rotrex c38 kit. You asked for "45k for a BRZ/GR86 with 300/300 under/around 3,000lbs, sign me up." and that currently exists in a gen1 legally. You can try and roach out of your original claim but you would be wrong. If you are calling me wrong, I'm just saying what the literal industry experts on the subject told me. Take it up with them.


But like I said, if i had to do it again I would not have built a 400whp brz there are way better and cheaper platforms. A 400whp is a lot different than a 300hp crack rated, but again you are aren't arguing with good intentions. Have fun with your I can't hear you over my 8k redline and 400whp

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by OldBlu

Can someone answer me a simple question? What sub 3,000lb rwd 2+2 with a 10:1 ratio and a $45k price tag (consider inflation) has ever existed in the last 25 years?

Like Corvettes are a little heavy but at least have a good ratio. The FD RX-7 gets close since it's so light. But both of those cars have no rear seat.

What precedent is there to even have this expectation? Maybe I just have a huge blindspot I'm not considering. But as safety emissions considerations make cars heavier and more complicated in the modern era, I don't understand where the expectation for lighter cars with better ratios for cheap is coming from.

Not an expectation, it's possible and it's what I want. Lighter cars are more engaging, provide better feedback, require less power/brakes/cooling/tire than heavier cars. Non-luxury cars are also more engaging, provide feedback and are more fun to drive than luxury cars.

The GR/BRZ chassis exists, I want a version with more power. The IS chassis exists, I would also take a GR Toyota version w/a 6mt that lost the Lexus weight. It's not a new/ground up design, all major components exist in the "parts bin". A V6 Toyota Camry is ~100lbs lighter than a Lexus ES350 with the same powertrain & "the same" equipment; it's essentially 100lbs of NVH reduction.

I was saying the same thing with the gen1 cars (I want a higher trim level w/more power). Rumors that the Gen2 would get the G1E-GTS, then "next gen" would etc.

10:1 ratio, around 3,000lbs. I'd expect the BRZ/86 to gain ~200lbs going to ~300CHP with a G16GTE
-G16E-GTS is lighter than the FA24, but there are additional items to consider with it being turbo, but not significant.
-Brembo/ts/Trueno brakes as standard - 12.8/12.4 vs the 11.6/11.2 base brakes, GR corolla has 14.0/12.8, but so does the IS500 (albeit thicker); IS350 Fsport is 13.2/12.2 @ that power level with way more weight to slow down, so 14.0/12.8 might be overkill or reserved to a track pack (again, looking at parts bin options)
-RA62/63 (rated @ 300lbft) or Aisin-AY (rated @ 345lbft) 6mt trans in place of the TL70 (rated @ 2xxlbft), but trans weights are within 20lbs of each other
-Cant find weight data or torque ratings for the rear diff or half shafts, but they are a similar weight to the 2nd gen IS300 diff, IS350/500 Diff are slightly heavier than the IS300 diff, axles would get heavier as well, but aftermarket BRZ/GR86 axles rated at 800hp are >14lbs, so not a significant gain there either.

There are other areas where it will gain weight, primarily at the rear hubs/ rear suspension etc. but this will improve weight balance & traction. Front suspension/steering/hubs will see some weight gain as well, but not as drastic as the rear.

Since we're talking Toyotas & I'm familiar with them:
The MY2014-2020 IS250 (2.5L V6, 8sd auto, AWD) was 3,500lbs, IS300/350 RWD models were 3,600lbs (3.5L V6, 8spd auto, RWD).
For the MY2021 redesign IS350 RWD models are now at 3,750lbs - the platform got taller, wider & longer, bigger wheels (19's from 18's) the IS500 comes in at 3,900lbs, weight gain (over the 350) is primarily from the engine & the front end, which is a "modified" GSF front end (they share the same trans, diff & axles)

When looking at the 2014-2020 3rd gens (at 3,600lbs), A lot of that is "Lexus" weight. A Toyota model would be significantly lighter, especially a 6mt version as the Aisin-AY 6mt weighs roughly 100lbs less than the AA80E 8spd auto does. Front power seats are ~65lbs each compared to the front seats in a BRZ/86 at 44D/40P, dropping the power moonroof will save ~80lbs; wheels are 28f/29r for an 18x8 and 18x8.5, my 18x9s are under 20lbs each, granted not an OEM wheel, but worth noting that the stockers are heavy, the 19's on the MY21+ cars are over 30lbs. For comparison, the 18x8.5 on the GR corolla are 23lbs, that's the same weight as the 18x7.5 on the BRZ/86. There is a lot of additional NVH material in the IS over the BRZ/86 as well; more Lexus weight - more/thicker acoustic/insulated glass is used in the IS as well, not to mention the additional weight of four doors over two.

I went through an exercise a while back when there were rumors about the next gen GR86 being on a shortened IS-platform with a G16 hybrid setup; the reason I bring it up now, is that if a RWD 6mt TOYOTA badged IS350 sedan were made, it would probably be what I'm looking for as far as power:weight is concerned, while still meeting current crash safety requirements; as a 6mt TOYOTA coupe, it would probably be even better, again while meeting current crash safety requirements. If it were offered with the G16, which weighs ~130lbs less than the 2GR, it's the "3/4 scale Mustang" I've brought up/referenced in the past from a power:weight ratio standpoint.

The G16E-GTS is a cleaner engine than the FA24 from an emissions standpoint (GRY vs BRZ/86 in Euro, and GRC vs BRZ/86 in US). The 2GR-FKS is as well (IS350 RWD 8A vs. BRZ/86 6M; not exactly apples to apples, as 8spd auto @ 3,700lbs vs 6mt @ 2,800lbs.).

Corvette never was offered in anything but 2-seat, but the FC & FD-RX7 were available in the Japanese & other markets as 2+2, the US market was 2-seat only. Z32 300ZX had market specific 2-seat & 2+2 configurations as well, same chassis, just different interior & engine options. S14/S15 240SX/Silvia with the SR20DET were 247hpp @ 2700-2800lbs, not 10:1, but that was also 20yrs ago & it still had a better power to weight than the BRZ/86 of today.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by OldBlu

Can someone answer me a simple question? What sub 3,000lb rwd 2+2 with a 10:1 ratio and a $45k price tag (consider inflation) has ever existed in the last 25 years?

Like Corvettes are a little heavy but at least have a good ratio. The FD RX-7 gets close since it's so light. But both of those cars have no rear seat.

What precedent is there to even have this expectation? Maybe I just have a huge blindspot I'm not considering. But as safety emissions considerations make cars heavier and more complicated in the modern era, I don't understand where the expectation for lighter cars with better ratios for cheap is coming from.

With all this talk of power to weight, it could be worth reminding that the 2nd gen cars have dyno'd consistently around 210-215 whp stock. Indicating that they're actually making closer to 250 at the crank. I'd guess hitting 10lb/hp is doable without boost and for reasonably little. Maybe tough to do on the cheap w/o ethanol.

Averages from ~38 different testers:

Dynojet
HP TQ
211.56 171.67

Mustang
HP TQ
217.62 176.22

Everything Else
HP TQ
212.79 175.55

https://www.gr86.org/threads/dyno-nu...pilation.1466/

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by uglywrx

Ok i went back and it says nothing like you claimed. I'm sorry you live in your own fantasy world. I'm extremely sorry that you decided to just make stuff up to a person that spent 7 years talking to owners of boosted brzs that autocross, track, and daily, their cars be it turbo, positive displacement, or centrifugal supercharger. Not only that I had multiple calls on the phone with IAG who built my 8000 rpm 12.5:1 compression engine, Counterspace garage who turned it, and jackson racing who made the rotrex c38 kit. You asked for "45k for a BRZ/GR86 with 300/300 under/around 3,000lbs, sign me up." and that currently exists in a gen1 legally. You can try and roach out of your original claim but you would be wrong. If you are calling me wrong, I'm just saying what the literal industry experts on the subject told me. Take it up with them.

But like I said, if i had to do it again I would not have built a 400whp brz there are way better and cheaper platforms. A 400whp is a lot different than a 300hp crack rated, but again you are aren't arguing with good intentions. Have fun with your I can't hear you over my 8k redline and 400whp

That's because you clipped my statement, and left out the quote I was responding to.

That "45k" statement was in response to OldBlu who referenced the cost of a new Civic Type R @ $45k, when I had guessed previously at a 40k MSRP for a theoretical MSRP for a NEW G16E-GTS BRZ/86.

AGAIN I was talking about a NEW car:

Originally Posted by OldBlu

And you're an idiot if you think you'll get that for $40k today. What's a type R? $45k? And thats on a fwd economy car platform. Now you want to cut weight and have a dedicated RWD chassis?

40k isn't what I'm willing to pay, I looked at the spread on the existing BRZ/86 models and made an estimate of what I thought it would cost.

45k for a BRZ/GR86 with 300/300 under/around 3,000lbs, sign me up.

Once again, I am willing to buy a NEW CAR with a 10:1 ratio or better for $45k.
-BRZ/86 size & weight, 2+2, FR/FMR, 6mt, RWD, 10:1, new car warranty too.

A 45k New car with a 10:1 ratio is not the same as a used car + associated parts to get it to 10:1 for "45k". One was designed for that power and has a warranty, one was not & does not.

You brought up building a 1st gen, not me; I had already looked into it, and it wasn't worth it to me. I'd be constrained by CARB compliance until it aged out. The drawbacks of boosting a high compression NA car (cooling, longevity) & the affects it would have on a driveline that was only designed for ~200hp are not worth it to me.
Doing a CARB compliant LS & driveline swap, isn't worth it to me either, especially when compared to something older that is not constrained by CARB compliance, and isn't saddled with a Subaru engine.

Also, where are those 25-30k C6 ZO6's you were talking about?

Now, to the question I didn't ask; is it possible to boost a first gen to 10:1 ratio & be CARB compliant for 45k? Yes, as long as you don't properly address cooling & completely ignore required driveline, suspension and brake upgrades. That is not what I want for 45k, I want a new car with a warranty for 45k with 10:1.

If I'm going the built car route, it's MY98 or older to avoid carb compliance, and it's probably an NA V8 build, that will still be under/around 3,000lbs.

The weight difference between a dressed aluminum Coyote and EFI302 is a wash, Coyote fits in a fox with a set of swap headers & motor mounts, 460CHP (gen3 coyotes dyno at 410-420WHP), in a car that will be under 3,000lbs; with a factory stock DOHC engine that isn't boosted to within an inch of it's life, that has headroom for later upgrades, and with just a tune, is safely capable of spinning to 8,000RPM, and there are examples with over 500WHP naturally aspirated (personally not into locking out VVT though). Low mileage examples of gen3 coyotes w/an MT82 6spd attached, can be had for under 8k, MT82 will fit in the tunnel with no issue (T56 fits with some persuasion, but no cutting is required).

MT82 weighs ~50lbs more than the T5, but the stock 8.8 rear is more than up to the task, I would do gears & a more aggressive diff & 31splines since I have to go 5x114.3 anyways for brakes & wheels. requisite upgrades like brakes, chassis bracing, cooling system, etc. are all available for the fox platform; there are inexpensive adaptors (OR SN95 parts) that accommodate bolting on (essentially) any modern Mustang brakes to a fox.

No CARB compliance requirements, no nannies, plenty of headroom if I want more power; can also put IRS in a fox, with either a Cobra based swap or more likely, one of the aftermarket options that are based on the Cobra IRS. I'd make that decision before building a rear end. I don't drag race, so a LRA offers almost zero advantage over an IRS setup, but can accommodate more wheel & tire than the IRS (and will be cheaper & more durable, but again, no drag racing/slicks), IRS would also help with the weight balance by adding weight to the rear of a 58:42 car (Pro-Con list required); I'd have to dig around more & call some old friends if I went the fox route, Coyote is actually shorter front to back than a Windsor, and can be pushed back closer to the firewall to help with balance, but it's also taller which would potentially/likely raise the center of gravity compared to a Windsor. Even though it's wider, that's not an issue for the shock towers in the fox as they can accommodate nearly every engine Ford makes.

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

That's because you clipped my statement, and left out the quote I was responding to.

That "45k" statement was in response to OldBlu who referenced the cost of a new Civic Type R @ $45k, when I had guessed previously at a 40k MSRP for a theoretical MSRP for a NEW G16E-GTS BRZ/86.

AGAIN I was talking about a NEW car:





Once again, I am willing to buy a NEW CAR with a 10:1 ratio or better for $45k.
-BRZ/86 size & weight, 2+2, FR/FMR, 6mt, RWD, 10:1, new car warranty too.

A 45k New car with a 10:1 ratio is not the same as a used car + associated parts to get it to 10:1 for "45k". One was designed for that power and has a warranty, one was not & does not.

You brought up building a 1st gen, not me; I had already looked into it, and it wasn't worth it to me. I'd be constrained by CARB compliance until it aged out. The drawbacks of boosting a high compression NA car (cooling, longevity) & the affects it would have on a driveline that was only designed for ~200hp are not worth it to me.
Doing a CARB compliant LS & driveline swap, isn't worth it to me either, especially when compared to something older that is not constrained by CARB compliance, and isn't saddled with a Subaru engine.

Also, where are those 25-30k C6 ZO6's you were talking about?

Now, to the question I didn't ask; is it possible to boost a first gen to 10:1 ratio & be CARB compliant for 45k? Yes, as long as you don't properly address cooling & completely ignore required driveline, suspension and brake upgrades. That is not what I want for 45k, I want a new car with a warranty for 45k with 10:1.

If I'm going the built car route, it's MY98 or older to avoid carb compliance, and it's probably an NA V8 build, that will still be under/around 3,000lbs.

The weight difference between a dressed aluminum Coyote and EFI302 is a wash, Coyote fits in a fox with a set of swap headers & motor mounts, 460CHP (gen3 coyotes dyno at 410-420WHP), in a car that will be under 3,000lbs; with a factory stock DOHC engine that isn't boosted to within an inch of it's life, that has headroom for later upgrades, and with just a tune, is safely capable of spinning to 8,000RPM, and there are examples with over 500WHP naturally aspirated (personally not into locking out VVT though). Low mileage examples of gen3 coyotes w/an MT82 6spd attached, can be had for under 8k, MT82 will fit in the tunnel with no issue (T56 fits with some persuasion, but no cutting is required).

MT82 weighs ~50lbs more than the T5, but the stock 8.8 rear is more than up to the task, I would do gears & a more aggressive diff & 31splines since I have to go 5x114.3 anyways for brakes & wheels. requisite upgrades like brakes, chassis bracing, cooling system, etc. are all available for the fox platform; there are inexpensive adaptors (OR SN95 parts) that accommodate bolting on (essentially) any modern Mustang brakes to a fox.

No CARB compliance requirements, no nannies, plenty of headroom if I want more power; can also put IRS in a fox, with either a Cobra based swap or more likely, one of the aftermarket options that are based on the Cobra IRS. I'd make that decision before building a rear end. I don't drag race, so a LRA offers almost zero advantage over an IRS setup, but can accommodate more wheel & tire than the IRS (and will be cheaper & more durable, but again, no drag racing/slicks), IRS would also help with the weight balance by adding weight to the rear of a 58:42 car (Pro-Con list required); I'd have to dig around more & call some old friends if I went the fox route, Coyote is actually shorter front to back than a Windsor, and can be pushed back closer to the firewall to help with balance, but it's also taller which would potentially/likely raise the center of gravity compared to a Windsor. Even though it's wider, that's not an issue for the shock towers in the fox as they can accommodate nearly every engine Ford makes.

Honestly go troll somewhere else. Here is where you can find a c6 z06 https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=used+c6+z06 and here is your statement https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...&postcount=477 nothing about new, nothing about factory, nothing about carb legal, etc. You made a statement, and you can literally get what you asked for originally, AND then you moved the goal posts 17 times until what you "actually meant" no longer exists in object reality. Go be a reddit debatelord somewhere else.

[Straight6]

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by uglywrx

Honestly go troll somewhere else. Here is where you can find a c6 z06 https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=used+c6+z06 and here is your statement https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...&postcount=477 nothing about new, nothing about factory, nothing about carb legal, etc. You made a statement, and you can literally get what you asked for originally, AND then you moved the goal posts 17 times until what you "actually meant" no longer exists in object reality. Go be a reddit debatelord somewhere else.

You misinterpreted what I typed, that's fine, it's an internet forum with multiple parties chiming in. However, I've reiterated my statement, multiple times & multiple ways, you simply refused to accept that you made a mistake, and that you had misinterpreted what I typed.

I have moved zero goalposts; you have. You went from "technically you don't need cooling mods in a boosted 1st gen" to "I have cooling issues in my boosted 1st gen".

I responded honestly to your hypothetical statement (boosted 1st gen) & provided my reasoning, because I had already explored that scenario & did not want to pursue it.
I also gave you an additional scenario I had explored (CARB cert. LS & driveline) and why I didn't want to pursue that one.

I provided an example build I would pursue, because it's an option I am looking into (coyote swapped Fox body).

You've made a statement with no basis in reality that you can't backup (25-30k C6 ZO6).

At 400whp and 8,000rpm at 2,800lbs, you've got what, 15k-20k in a built engine, another 10k-15k in the custom supercharger, how much in tuning? what trans & rear end are you running? gear ratio & diff? axles? I don't see the stock units surviving a dyno session, let alone regular use if you're pushing 3x the amount of power through them they are rated for.

What did you do for weight reduction? Stock weight is 2,800lbs, you've added at least 80lbs under the hood between the supercharger & it's paraphernalia at around ~60, the increased cooling, O/A separator, etc. all add weight too.

Did you do brakes? wheels & tires? how much did the trans & rear end add? did you gut your interior?

Any structural bracing and/or cage/hoop? What did you do to beef up the rear end to handle the extra power?

Where are those C6 ZO6's for 25-30k at?

[Joebechillin]

Just making it expensive for no reason. People will still buy.

[Kostamojen]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

BR tS being shown off at Thunderhill West by Subaru

[rexster]

Anyone have any pricing for the GR version?

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

http://youtu.be/02mA3wgav4Q?

BR tS being shown off at Thunderhill West by Subaru

Not pictured: blown engine due to oil starvation.

Subaru really hasn’t learned anything from the EJ era. They continue to churn out the same garbage with their AWD party trick that suckers buy because Subaru ownership is a cult. If it wasn’t for Toyota this car wouldn’t even exist. I’m surprised it doesn’t have plastic cladding clipped all over the body.

The tS stands for trash Supreme because that’s what this car is without a reliable powertrain. I love the car but the engine is such a fail. And the fact that Subaru does NOTHING to fix it pisses me off.

[rexster]

I’ll agree that they probably shouldn’t market the car as track worthy given the oil pressure issues when driven with sticky tires on a track. But saying it’s garbage is a little over the top. The engines are totally fine for street driving. Some prior gen Porsches have the same issue. Track them with sticky tires and oil starvation causes engine failure. Except it’s a much higher priced car and engine. I’m not saying they should ignore the problem. But the twins are still one of the best options for an affordable and fun street car. And the painted fenders make it all the better.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by rexster

I’ll agree that they probably shouldn’t market the car as track worthy given the oil pressure issues when driven with sticky tires on a track. But saying it’s garbage is a little over the top. The engines are totally fine for street driving. Some prior gen Porsches have the same issue. Track them with sticky tires and oil starvation causes engine failure. Except it’s a much higher priced car and engine. I’m not saying they should ignore the problem. But the twins are still one of the best options for an affordable and fun street car. And the painted fenders make it all the better.

The people that have logged the repeatable oil pressure drop in gen-2 cars during right hand turns are running 260TW 225/45R17 tires, they are not high grip track tires, they are the sponsored tires for the 86 cup, and are sold to participants at a discount; they are a far cry from cup-2s, let alone the cup2 R or an actual track tire. They aren't even that much of a step up in grip compared to the ts/trueno pilot 4's (or the 1st-gen "performance pack" tires).

It's a Subaru engine with typical Subaru engine issues, and will be "addressed" in typical Subaru fashion, meaning, it will not be addressed.

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by Joebechillin

Just making it expensive for no reason. People will still make payments on it.

Fixed.

[rexster]

According to Edmund’s, I can get a 2024 brz ts for around $700 under invoice ($33,780). I guess supply is finally back. Similar numbers for the wrx, around 500 under invoice. But I have no interest in the wrx.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by rexster

According to Edmund’s, I can get a 2024 brz ts for around $700 under invoice ($33,780). I guess supply is finally back. Similar numbers for the wrx, around 500 under invoice. But I have no interest in the wrx.

nor should anybody who has eyesite.

[rexster]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

nor should anybody who has eyesite.

So this article popped up in my feed. These Prodrive fender covers almost make it tolerable. I don't care for the wing though.



https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews...ns-impressions

[Kostamojen]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

Might be the clouds, but I'm not digging the tS in this color.

[Kostamojen]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[Kostamojen]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[Kostamojen]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

tS in a comparison test against cars I would be shopping it against.