50/50 Water/meth PI using FrostByte controller + 2 FAILsafes

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW

Flex is in the works, along with CAN input options. As for what I said, I am not a fan of tuning for a specific content, because no respectable tuner will tune for that without a large safety margin in both fueling and spark tables. I don't see a point in getting a tune for an E60 blend when the power gains will only be marginal at best over e30, which is only marginal over 91/93 in the stock configuration, when flex fuel is coming out in the near future.

While I am aware of the massive difference in power potential between the three, and how well the ECU can compensate for the difference in lambda, it's not ideal for power to have that kind of discrepancy.
An ideal E60 blend on a 93 base would yield about 101 octane. Let's say you fill up at a station with a really poorly mixed E pump that's coming out at 55%. You now have a tank of E40 with a maximum of 98 octane. While the rich condition will help to offset the decreased octane, it won't do your engine any favors to be running that much richer.

And that's also assuming the tuner doesn't leave any wiggle room for incorrect math on the driver's part when filling up. It's just not my cup of tea.

As for fuel-it, I am not a fan of Burger after some poor interactions with their personnel when I was considering a JB4 as a meth controller. My gripes aside, what good does it do to see the content after filling up if you can't do anything about it?

I have a flex setup on my brz and I see 0 reason to do anything besides that in my wrx. No mixing, no measuring, just put whatever you want in the tank and it figures it out. Any idea of when the flex kit will be out?

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[Apb_pools]

Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW

Flex is in the works, along with CAN input options. As for what I said, I am not a fan of tuning for a specific content, because no respectable tuner will tune for that without a large safety margin in both fueling and spark tables. I don't see a point in getting a tune for an E60 blend when the power gains will only be marginal at best over e30, which is only marginal over 91/93 in the stock configuration, when flex fuel is coming out in the near future.

While I am aware of the massive difference in power potential between the three, and how well the ECU can compensate for the difference in lambda, it's not ideal for power to have that kind of discrepancy.
An ideal E60 blend on a 93 base would yield about 101 octane. Let's say you fill up at a station with a really poorly mixed E pump that's coming out at 55%. You now have a tank of E40 with a maximum of 98 octane. While the rich condition will help to offset the decreased octane, it won't do your engine any favors to be running that much richer.

And that's also assuming the tuner doesn't leave any wiggle room for incorrect math on the driver's part when filling up. It's just not my cup of tea.

As for fuel-it, I am not a fan of Burger after some poor interactions with their personnel when I was considering a JB4 as a meth controller. My gripes aside, what good does it do to see the content after filling up if you can't do anything about it?

Every tuner tunes for a single fuel, its what 91oct and 93oct maps are. No one runs 87-93oct flex kit. But we could pour 87 or 91 instead of 93, or bad 93.


You have no clue what youre saying. Wait for a flex kit and respectable tuners is my advice.

[Apb_pools]

Originally Posted by uglywrx

I have a flex setup on my brz and I see 0 reason to do anything besides that in my wrx. No mixing, no measuring, just put whatever you want in the tank and it figures it out. Any idea of when the flex kit will be out?

So.. nonsense. This is why. Not one person buys a flex kit and other fbo mods and pays for a tune to have 400whp at e60 to then mix WHATEVER amounts and run 21% ethanol final content and 330whp. That is NOT what you will be doing 99% of the time.

You will have a routine. You will know by 3rd time that you need to fill with (made up data) 1/4 tank remaining and add 4gal of full e85 then fill the rest with 93oct. You will aim to do THIS everytime because it will yield XX% +/-some.


BUT when in a pickle and there is no e85 you can THEN pour whatever. And the persona with single e60 map will have to wait until less than 1/4 tank then fill up with 91oct or 93oct while/and flashing back to 91oct or 93oct map. (Manual vs flex).



Now you have a brz and it Isnt turbo so your gains are minimal compared to 150whp i gained in a wrx, or 100whp delta between 91oct and e50 mapping.

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by Apb_pools

So.. nonsense. This is why. Not one person buys a flex kit and other fbo mods and pays for a tune to have 400whp at e60 to then mix WHATEVER amounts and run 21% ethanol final content and 330whp. That is NOT what you will be doing 99% of the time.

You will have a routine. You will know by 3rd time that you need to fill with (made up data) 1/4 tank remaining and add 4gal of full e85 then fill the rest with 93oct. You will aim to do THIS everytime because it will yield XX% +/-some.


BUT when in a pickle and there is no e85 you can THEN pour whatever. And the persona with single e60 map will have to wait until less than 1/4 tank then fill up with 91oct or 93oct while/and flashing back to 91oct or 93oct map. (Manual vs flex).



Now you have a brz and it Isnt turbo so your gains are minimal compared to 150whp i gained in a wrx, or 100whp delta between 91oct and e50 mapping.

Bro I have a stage 2 IAG block with an 8200 rpm redline and a c38 supercharger with a high boost pulley. And yes I have a routine its called going to sheetz and filling up with flex fuel and letting the ecu figure it out. At the end of the season i'll fill up on 93 for more shelf life and guess what, don't have to do anything because flex sensor and flex tune. Here is a pic


Also it is pretty funny that someone with a setup that isn't running is telling me, someone with a running setup how it works. Also if you have an objection with my setup which has been running for 3 years take objection with IAG, jackson racing, counterspace garage and their tuner zach. All 4 of these are widely considered the best in their space. I called them multiple times telling them my goal and p2w target and they told me what I would need to get there.

Lastly, I don't know where you live but all the pumps are actually flexfuel where I live. I have literally never seen a pure e85 pump in my life. I have been on flexfuel since 2018 too. That means it can be anywhere from 51% to 85%. But again your setup isn't running so how would you know that?

[Apb_pools]

E-bro,

My setup IS running ethanol for 19k miles. (Have not run 91oct since 800mi)
Your setup is NOT.
You are waiting for flex kit so ecu figures it out.
Is that right?


Where i live, flex fuel and e85 are interchangeably used to name ethanol. Concentrations vary from 51% to 83% and i have both pumps close to my house. I just fill witu ethanol 51% and ecu figures it out.

[Apb_pools]

And i get many powers on e50 map, ecu magic.

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by Apb_pools

E-bro,

My setup IS running ethanol for 19k miles. (Have not run 91oct since 800mi)
Your setup is NOT.
You are waiting for flex kit so ecu figures it out.
Is that right?


Where i live, flex fuel and e85 are interchangeably used to name ethanol. Concentrations vary from 51% to 83% and i have both pumps close to my house. I just fill witu ethanol 51% and ecu figures it out.

I'm starting to feel like there is a language barrier going on. I autocrossed it all season last year. It is literally running and has been running for almost 3 years now. If you have a flex setup why did you just talk **** to me on one?


But I honestly thought with the picture of a gasket and head studs as well as talking in the future tense, that your engine was blown up.

[Apb_pools]

I do NOT have a flex setup.
One does not need a flex setup to run a tune.
No one runs 87-93oct flex setup but single fuel maps like 91oct.
E50 map is same like 91oct map-ie single fuel.

You and other guy are ones brining flex kits into conversation because not fully understanding what its purpose is, in my opinion. Yours can vary.


This thread is about bigger turbo and 550whp goals.

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by Apb_pools

I do NOT have a flex setup.
One does not need a flex setup to run a tune.
No one runs 87-93oct flex setup but single fuel maps like 91oct.
E50 map is same like 91oct map-ie single fuel.

You and other guy are ones brining flex kits into conversation because not fully understanding what its purpose is, in my opinion. Yours can vary.


This thread is about bigger turbo and 550whp goals.

I literally claimed none of that but keep trolling dude. Don't let your dreams be memes

[Apb_pools]

Originally Posted by uglywrx

I literally claimed none of that but keep trolling dude. Don't let your dreams be memes

I did not say you claimed above post.
I was trying to illustrate a parallel so your logic kicks in.
Instead of getting it or responding you call me a troll.
In my own thread nonetheless.

Hopefully we on same page now, next time read thread from beginning so i dont have to explain that my car runs and is not broken down. To then also be called a troll for explaining that there is no difference running 91oct tune or e35 tune, assuming you put correct (respectively) fuels in tank of course.


Now i have an opinion of mine. You and other guy dont understand the purpose of flex kits and he is further confused with some "tuner tolerance logic" or something. Just my opinion, if i may have one.

[uglywrx]

Originally Posted by Apb_pools

I did not say you claimed above post.
I was trying to illustrate a parallel so your logic kicks in.
Instead of getting it or responding you call me a troll.
In my own thread nonetheless.

Hopefully we on same page now, next time read thread from beginning so i dont have to explain that my car runs and is not broken down. To then also be called a troll for explaining that there is no difference running 91oct tune or e35 tune, assuming you put correct (respectively) fuels in tank of course.


Now i have an opinion of mine. You and other guy dont understand the purpose of flex kits and he is further confused with some "tuner tolerance logic" or something. Just my opinion, if i may have one.

No I very much understand what they do and someone would use one. Keep taking shots and keep missing guy. I'll go a step farther and explain it to you. Like an overwhelming majority of people the only access to ethanol I have is flex fuel. This can be as low as 51% and as high as 85%. Filling up on pure flex is the most amount of ethanol I can get. So you could run a fixed e% tune and let the fuel trim correct, or you could do the proper thing and get an ethanol sensor and let it interpolate the fuel and timing tables. The ecu has a base tune of 91 or 93 e0 (it actually is <e10) and a table for e85.

[Apb_pools]

To update the thread at this point..

1. I have to plumb fuel tank to front fuel filter
2. I have to pwr/gnd fuel pump in back and
2.1 Wire up to controller thru inside car
3. Engine build (rods, rod bearings, arp studs, stg2 turbine)

In the meantime i bought a chinese ecu/tcu tuning tool capable of obd/jtag/bench/boot and am trying to tune my other car, italian 2.0L dit. Want it also on an ethanol map ***8230; and long story short is no one would custom tune it, only who knows what/whose flash/copy so i connected w an European tuner who tuned a mclaren for dmetuning and was tagged (how i found him) to help me tune this car. He admitted he knows nothing about ecu but had damos and a2l's (as i do too now) so it will be a learning process.

This is side tracking me a bit, as well as it not being a priority in my life. Its just really fun stuff for when i have time to do this. In meantime i switched my brain a bit towards winOLS..









Need a better GUI map software.

[Apb_pools]

Originally Posted by uglywrx

No I very much understand what they do and someone would use one. Keep taking shots and keep missing guy. I'll go a step farther and explain it to you. Like an overwhelming majority of people the only access to ethanol I have is flex fuel. This can be as low as 51% and as high as 85%. Filling up on pure flex is the most amount of ethanol I can get. So you could run a fixed e% tune and let the fuel trim correct, or you could do the proper thing and get an ethanol sensor and let it interpolate the fuel and timing tables. The ecu has a base tune of 91 or 93 e0 (it actually is <e10) and a table for e85.

Hey we on same page.
Except you dont know what your pumps dispense.
I do.
Suggestion is to test and see.


If you have constant e35 you can run an e35 tune.
If you want e50 then you will have to find a pump w e50 (or 83% to mix w e35 from above).
Either way you will mix UNLESS you have 51%.
And if you have 51% then you NOT need flex kit, just tune for e50.


Flex kit is for ppl who dont readily have access to e85 like you and i.
Or ppl who dont wanna run e85 for WHATEVER reason and want to run 91oct between fun weekends on e85.
Again.. i have 87-91oct readily available so i dont need a octane-kit to help my ecu calibrate when i know what i AM putting in.

[Apb_pools]

Updates:

1. Completed fueling connections, but disconnected front from fuel filter due to engine going out soon, finally.
2. Secured fuel tank with threaded rivets, worked flawlessly.

Pics:





Need to:

1. Reconnect in engine bay when it comes back.
2. Secure everything and make pretty.
3. Either unscrew tank and secure on top of carpet or make 2 slits and fold carpet over.
4. Consider drilling plastic tmic side closest to iat sensor/post core (other side is alloy, ie pre core) for a 5 nozzle to control iat.

Testing of mesh that came in tank to make sure it can withstand e85 without disintegrating. Its supposed to be inside my auxiliary tank.

[Apb_pools]

To update..meshing looks same, car is at shop, engine is at Outfront Motorsports getting reworked with CP pistons, BC rods and King bearings. Should be wrapped up in two weeks time.

[Apb_pools]

Very few pics i took yesterday, bottom end is at Outfront so i couldnt take pics of that. You are looking at 22k hard miles on e50%+. Car has not seen 91oct since bought new.

[ziggyziggler]

Do people run redundant pumps on meth setups?

[Apb_pools]

Originally Posted by ziggyziggler

Do people run redundant pumps on meth setups?

Not sure what you mean by redundant as for meth you have to run its own meth pump, meth cant run thru regular pump.

Now i am doing just more of same fuel so yes, i have two pumps: one powering oem system (untouched) and second (added) powering Port Injection system.

[Apb_pools]

Getting a slightly bigger hybrid, should be good for 675/600 unless we blow something. No other updates as of today.

[Apb_pools]

Yay!

[Apb_pools]

Review of my recent experiences with IAG Performance

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2955434

Waiting on turbo to be back from staging. All else is ready.

Considering going Kotouc/Xshift (same ppl) sequential transmission. Had to call IAG as they are exclusive Subaru distributors for PPG in USA

In the end it will be Xshift or stock STI transplant. After a long day i just confirmed what most ppl knew already; you cant just pop in an sti tranny and fit a driveshaft and call it a day. Problem is all of them are 1.1:3.90=3.55 final drive or 1:3.90=3.90 final drive, and our wrx from 2015-today is 4.11.

Xshift would cost 9500+2000+cost of sti case/gearbox (4-5000$)+DCCD (if dccd could be viscous 4kgf instead) and other stuff. About 16-17k. Would need oil changes every 5k and probably open, inspect and repair/rebuild interval of 40-50k of street at 5% of that race duty (street or track).

[Apb_pools]

After much research and learning, looks like i will just pop in my Cusco 1.5 way lsd into r160 and run it like that until it brakes. If and when it brakes, sti tranny with r180 and 3.90fd gearing is going in.

I think i gave up on sequentials for now, mainly due to grinding, noise, servicing intervals and cost. Keeping things simple is my thing, and as much as i want the sequential it is not worth the hassle of driving with constant grinding and clunking noises. I like to roll on anyone in comfort and style, thus OEM wrx tranny will do until it brakes.

I also found out XShift is basically KAPS and Kotouc gearboxes (legal issues being fought in court), but they are mainly same units, just cut out of different source metal and different machines. Same "specs" though, at least for Mits/Sub units. Some extra info for what its worth.

[Apb_pools]

Still waiting on turbo to get back from Blouch.

Decided against sequential after having a proper conversation with a local sequential specialist. Not doing an STI transplant just yet, as gearing at best is 3.90 vs 4.11 in my WRX. Instead installing a Cusco rear lsd i had setup for 1.5way and going from there. Cusco also makes a front LSD for our cars, 1way, which is an option at this point but will drive with open front diff first and test drive car. Two local shops are knowledgeable and willing to open and OEM WRX 6spd transmission and install the front lsd, dm me if you want their info.

Foam for the aux fueling tank is here but car/tank are not, still at the shop. At this pace it will probably be another 2 weeks or so.

Added AMS TMIC as well to the build.



--
https://www.instagram.com/stock.cars.tuned/

[Apb_pools]

Looks like Fluidampr can be fit too, yay!

[Apb_pools]

Originally Posted by Apb_pools

Looks like Fluidampr can be fit too, yay!

Wont work on my vin. Not sure what above fits but not my fa24 which has no adapter and uses a different part # crankshaft pulley.

*****EDIT:After much back and forth with Fluidampr in NY, I ended up ordering the OEM subaru hub and Fluidampr. Will report if it fits or not, but by all e-calcs i made, it should fit.