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Old 01-11-2013, 10:09 PM   #1
slowgenius
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Default Separate oil system for turbo

I was wondering if anyone considered running a separate oil system for their turbo, to optimize oil weights for engine and turbo separately?
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:15 AM   #2
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and why?
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:00 AM   #3
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To see if its worth it. I may run a turbo location that requires a scavenge pump, and i was wondering if there would be any benefit to separate engine oil from turbo oil.

One possible benefit is keeping the "turbo oil loop" if thats what we can call it, free from the combustion contaminated oil.

Is there an optimal oil weight for the turbo that is not practical for engine lubrication or vice versa?

For example, the journal bearing turbo design has been claimed to break down some oil faster and that decreases its effectiveness in engine bearings, causing failures.

There may be some spool charictaristics, or gas mileage benefits to be had also, thats what im looking for.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:22 AM   #4
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How would you keep it cool? Lot of extra weight for little to no gains. Imo
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #5
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Ideally to get the oil to temp, plumbing it into a heat exchanger and engine coolant.

I realize that there is added complexity and expense, i am mostly interested in what the ideas are on what benefits if any there would be.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:18 PM   #6
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A small amount of oil would have a hard time keeping cool I would imagine. You would need a large resivor that will waste space. At that point I woups rather have a 10 quart oil pan insted of 2 5 quart pans.


You can always run a oilless comp turbo. They can be mounted at any angle which is nice. But im unsure of their actual quality.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
A small amount of oil would have a hard time keeping cool I would imagine. You would need a large resivor that will waste space. At that point I woups rather have a 10 quart oil pan insted of 2 5 quart pans.

You can always run a oilless comp turbo. They can be mounted at any angle which is nice. But im unsure of their actual quality.
My builder has two cars running the comp oilless turbos, but there isnt a whole lot of performance and reliability info on them.

I will however end up running one also.

As far as cooling, most ball bearing turbos are watercooled, so i feel a large reservoir would not be needed.

I feel with a pump, fittings lines and reservoir, the cost difference is manageable, given the extra cost of oiless turbo. Especially since certain turbos can be had inexpensively that perform well.

Last edited by slowgenius; 01-12-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post
My builder has two cars running the comp oilless turbos, but there isnt a whole lot of performance and reliability info on them.
And there's a reason for this.

We considered this option as well when looking at turbo options for our low mount turbo kit. Obviously, this would have simplified things a lot. After discussions with turbo manufacturers I did not want to use technology that has questionable long term reliability.

We use a scavenge pump since the tubo is low. It works as well as the OEM setup.

On the seperate oil idea, you have to remember, these turbos were designed to run just as they are, for and with the motor oil recommended for the vehicle. Veering off from that recommendation you're taking performance and reliability into you own hands, for better, or likely or worse.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:56 AM   #9
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Run a oilless turbo.


I run the comp tri ceramic billet 6765 and make great power. Can mount it in any plane and no need to worry about oil supply.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post

I did not want to use technology that has questionable long term reliability.

We use a scavenge pump since the tubo is low. It works as well as the OEM setup.

On the seperate oil idea, you have to remember, these turbos were designed to run just as they are, for and with the motor oil recommended for the vehicle. Veering off from that recommendation you're taking performance and reliability into you own hands, for better, or likely or worse.
I appreciate your feedback, thanks! For reliability it sounded as if a rebuild or some maintenance would be needed every 50k miles. Hopefully some data will turn up.

The oil run in built motors varies greatly with specs and intended use, so thats why i was curious if a precision bb, or garrett bb,etc. Could benefit from one specifically optimized for its functioning, regardless of the engine its attached to.

Planky, you got any more details on your build? How long have you had it? How many miles are on it? How does it compare to similar sized turbos? Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post
The oil run in built motors varies greatly with specs and intended use, so thats why i was curious if a precision bb, or garrett bb,etc. Could benefit from one specifically optimized for its functioning, regardless of the engine its attached to.
I've never seen any data regarding oil types on BB turbos. Since they are BB turbos, the oil is as much a means of keeping the bearings cool than a critical component of lubrication, as in a journal bearing turbo. As long as the flow is there (below 60 psi) all is good. If you're running a different viscosity then the turbo's oil restrictor may need to be adjusted. Just my 2 cents, but I don't think oil differences will add up to any measurable difference. If it did, the manufacturers would have made such recommendations.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post

I appreciate your feedback, thanks! For reliability it sounded as if a rebuild or some maintenance would be needed every 50k miles. Hopefully some data will turn up.

The oil run in built motors varies greatly with specs and intended use, so thats why i was curious if a precision bb, or garrett bb,etc. Could benefit from one specifically optimized for its functioning, regardless of the engine its attached to.

Planky, you got any more details on your build? How long have you had it? How many miles are on it? How does it compare to similar sized turbos? Thanks!
Yep. Have a build thread on iwsti. http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-membe...th-addict.html

It has a really good transient response so keeps boost well between shifts as well as my old 35r on antilag.

I have about 8 thousand miles on it with 3 trips to the drag strip and a lot of highway pulls. I use the ALS on my cosworth ecu a lot and its holding up well.

Compared to a similar efr turbo at 28psi it made more power on the same dyno.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #13
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Dude your car rocks! Thanks for the feedback on your comp turbo. Im looking at a 6262 or 6266
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:43 PM   #14
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Killerb that makes sense. All in all so far, not sounding like much of a benefit to separate turbo from engine oil.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I've never seen any data regarding oil types on BB turbos. Since they are BB turbos, the oil is as much a means of keeping the bearings cool than a critical component of lubrication, as in a journal bearing turbo. As long as the flow is there (below 60 psi) all is good. If you're running a different viscosity then the turbo's oil restrictor may need to be adjusted. Just my 2 cents, but I don't think oil differences will add up to any measurable difference. If it did, the manufacturers would have made such recommendations.
Is this "below 60 PSI" rule valid for all turbos? I've not heard of this before.
I know of restrictors (and use the standard ones) but not a PSI rule. I've not reduced the size of my restrictors and am running 85 or more PSI at times.
This is primarily on my ball bearing BW 8374 but also my Blouch 2.5XTR.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:51 AM   #16
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please delete. Your computer posted an error and caused a double post.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scargod View Post
Is this "below 60 PSI" rule valid for all turbos? I've not heard of this before.
I know of restrictors (and use the standard ones) but not a PSI rule. I've not reduced the size of my restrictors and am running 85 or more PSI at times.
This is primarily on my ball bearing BW 8374 but also my Blouch 2.5XTR.
The 60 PSI thing is only for BB turbos. The Garrett tech section has some good info on why.

Going back to the question about running seperate oil. Only 2 benifits i can see, is for wierd location turbos. Like engine at front, turbo at back type of wierd setups.

And for keeping turbo free of debris when you spin a bearing.

Probably alot more headaches than benifits.

I actuall have a low mount tubro on my car and use a electric scavenge pump, but have a drysump to go on when the new motor is built. A totoally seperate oil system would need scavenge (or gravity drain) and a dedicated pressure stage. Plus resivoirs and plumbing and such.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #18
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As Bram said, that comment was directed to BB turbos.

Low mounts have been done for so long now (since 2010 for us) the formula is pretty straight forward. Proper restrictor, follow the turbo position and placement specs, Check valves, sump, venting and scavenge pump. OEM feed is super easy and already there (unlike cars that don't come with a turbo). With the newer FA engines it's even easier since the feed, checks, AND scavenge pump are already there
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