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Old 12-13-2018, 01:18 PM   #51
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That makes sense. I was just thinking that marketing has jacked up so many things anyway, they'd sell an FMR2 as a classic MR2 and tell everyone to shove off.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:21 PM   #52
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Considering how well the BRZ/86 turned out as a philosophical brother to the AE86, I have confidence that they'll achieve the same thing with the MR2.

Now, if they'd partnered with BMW or VAG for the MR2, I'd be less sanguine about it, and expect yet another R35-like mess the new Supra looking like it might be: way overpriced technology demonstrator.

But when working with Subaru, they turned out a remarkably sober and sane product.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:30 PM   #53
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Toyota seems to inspire Subaru and Subaru seems to temper Toyota, so it's a good partnership for sure.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:07 PM   #54
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I love (rear?) mid-engined cars as much as the next car enthusiast, but, boy, working on these cars is a PITA.
I'd rather have something like BRZ/AE86 that I can service in my garage with a simple engine crane.
I just caught up with an episode of Wheeler Dealers featuring a 1991 MR2 and that scared me straight...
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:00 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I love (rear?) mid-engined cars as much as the next car enthusiast, but, boy, working on these cars is a PITA.
I'd rather have something like BRZ/AE86 that I can service in my garage with a simple engine crane.
I just caught up with an episode of Wheeler Dealers featuring a 1991 MR2 and that scared me straight...
if you think an MR2 is difficult to service, you should check out MR kei cars; remove the passenger seat to do an oil change? that makes sense.
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:10 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Toyota seems to inspire Subaru and Subaru seems to temper Toyota, so it's a good partnership for sure.
Agreed. Now, imagine if Toyota was invited to assist Subaru with a redesign of the WRX/STI.

I wonder what magic would happen...
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:18 AM   #57
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Agreed. Now, imagine if Toyota was invited to assist Subaru with a redesign of the WRX/STI.

I wonder what magic would happen...
Mr Toyoda said it and asked if Subaru would return in WRC. Maybe develop a car together. Why not a AWD BRZ turbo. Subaru done at prodrive, Toyota at Makinen.
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:50 AM   #58
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Mr Toyoda said it and asked if Subaru would return in WRC. Maybe develop a car together. Why not a AWD BRZ turbo. Subaru done at prodrive, Toyota at Makinen.
AWD BRZ wouldn't work. Engine would be shifted forward, disrupting weight, and the AWD transmission would be heavier and have greater parasitic power loss.

So, it would have to be sprung differently and the chassis wouldn't be as nimble and the ride would be much stiffer.

Basically, a AWD BRZ would ruin what the the BRZ was supposed to be.

Now a redesigned WRX, maintaining the design purpose behind the WRX but with design input from toyota, that could definitely be good. I can see more rear biased power, mechanical or torsion LSD in the rear, sleeker lines, etc.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:32 PM   #59
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How good the BRZ is, the car dus not fit in Subaru line. Makes no Sense to make a image. By the way, tommi made a AWD conversion of GT86 to convince mr Toyoda. Can't be impossible it so far away.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:33 PM   #60
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https://youtu.be/nxxGAkRKPac
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Old 12-14-2018, 07:58 PM   #61
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AWD BRZ wouldn't work. Engine would be shifted forward, disrupting weight, and the AWD transmission would be heavier and have greater parasitic power loss.

So, it would have to be sprung differently and the chassis wouldn't be as nimble and the ride would be much stiffer.

Basically, a AWD BRZ would ruin what the the BRZ was supposed to be.

Now a redesigned WRX, maintaining the design purpose behind the WRX but with design input from toyota, that could definitely be good. I can see more rear biased power, mechanical or torsion LSD in the rear, sleeker lines, etc.
Push the engine back then run a shaft to the front wheels like the Legacy B4 GT300.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:46 AM   #62
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Or just use electric for the FWD aspect. Way simpler without moving the engine up, down, or forward.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:49 AM   #63
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Oh. I really like that idea. But please keep it light. Even though it is underpowered, the 3rd gen MR2 handles way better than the previous two because it is light.

I'd love to see a miata-killer in autocross with this new deuce.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:09 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I love (rear?) mid-engined cars as much as the next car enthusiast, but, boy, working on these cars is a PITA.
I'd rather have something like BRZ/AE86 that I can service in my garage with a simple engine crane.
I just caught up with an episode of Wheeler Dealers featuring a 1991 MR2 and that scared me straight...
The Mk2 engine, trans, and rear subframe can removed as a unit in about 45 minutes if you have a simple engine crane. Just disconnect and lift the rear of the car up really high with the crane.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:10 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Or just use electric for the FWD aspect. Way simpler without moving the engine up, down, or forward.
I believe this is what's being considered for this vehicle - using electric for front wheels.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:24 PM   #66
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I believe this is what's being considered for this vehicle - using electric for front wheels.
Toyota's Gazoo firm concepted one a while back. I'd be very interested in a new MR2 as long as it was RWD and had all Toyota bits.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-...he-ring-89475/
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:59 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doobie Scoo View Post
Toyota's Gazoo firm concepted one a while back. I'd be very interested in a new MR2 as long as it was RWD and had all Toyota bits.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-...he-ring-89475/
They must have hired Morrette to design those headlights.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:58 PM   #68
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Just curious, what market segment is this car aimed at? I think I understand pretty well most of the other Subaru models. But I don't quite get who would want this car?
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:34 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doobie Scoo View Post
The Mk2 engine, trans, and rear subframe can removed as a unit in about 45 minutes if you have a simple engine crane. Just disconnect and lift the rear of the car up really high with the crane.
Ah, ok, that sounds more reasonable then.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:53 AM   #70
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Something something, pissing in the wind, something something
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:51 AM   #71
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Just curious, what market segment is this car aimed at? I think I understand pretty well most of the other Subaru models. But I don't quite get who would want this car?
Those that appreciate handling dynamics, and connection to the road/feedback through the car to the drvier - over power.

Low budget sports cars are still a desire to many, as the prices keep increasing. You know... "fun" cars?

--kC
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:49 AM   #72
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Those that appreciate handling dynamics, and connection to the road/feedback through the car to the drvier - over power.

Low budget sports cars are still a desire to many, as the prices keep increasing. You know... "fun" cars?

--kC
But with this definitely going to be more expensive than the BRZ/86, I'm betting this MR2 rebirth will be aimed not at the "entry cheap car" segment, but more at the "Can afford a more expensive car, but still can't afford a BMW" segment. That is, the mid $30k range.

If the BRZ can compete with base model ecoboost mustangs, then this will fight the Mustang GT. Not necessarily in power, but in price range. It'll perform in suspension, geometry, and balance, like the Mustang GT does on horse power: very well.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:45 AM   #73
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Sure, it's going to be more expensive... probably around or just a little more than CTR/STi/Golf R money (which is more than the twins too) yet a hole in the lineup between GT86, and Supra.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 12-19-2018 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:52 PM   #74
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But with this definitely going to be more expensive than the BRZ/86, I'm betting this MR2 rebirth will be aimed not at the "entry cheap car" segment, but more at the "Can afford a more expensive car, but still can't afford a BMW" segment. That is, the mid $30k range.

If the BRZ can compete with base model ecoboost mustangs, then this will fight the Mustang GT. Not necessarily in power, but in price range. It'll perform in suspension, geometry, and balance, like the Mustang GT does on horse power: very well.
The 86 is supposed to be the middle priced car according to Akio Toyoda

https://paultan.org/2018/07/26/akio-...he-spots-tada/

They should really just drop the 86, call the four cylinder Supra the Celica, the 6 cylinder a Celica Supra. Build a MR2 using the prius drivetrain flipped around and sell it at 25k. Then bring out the S-FR as the new 86, considering it has the same weight and size of the old Corolla GTS and price it at 15k.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:34 AM   #75
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Quote:
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Those that appreciate handling dynamics, and connection to the road/feedback through the car to the drvier - over power.

Low budget sports cars are still a desire to many, as the prices keep increasing. You know... "fun" cars?

--kC
That's not a market segment. Lots of cars handle well, including all the new Subaru SGP models.

I don't think there is much of a market for this car, and I don't think Subaru/Toyota will go forward with it.
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