Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 18, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Service & Maintenance

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-10-2015, 01:18 PM   #76
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by migaleddi View Post
... but you know as well as I do there's a definition of synthetic oil and it's easy enough to follow.
Actually, there isn't a definition and "synthetic" is only considered a marketing term.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-10-2015, 03:11 PM   #77
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default

Are you insinuating that there is no difference between conventional oil and synthetic?

Please tell me that's what you're trying to say.

I get that there is probably no set industry standard to which all motor oil processing must adhere in order to be deemed/considered/sold as synthetic, but you sound like you think that the term "synthetic" is marketing department voodoo and bears no influence on the nature of the product sold as such.

Sounds like you might just be picking some seriously small nits here with the word "definition".
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 03:43 PM   #78
Uncle Scotty
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by migaleddi View Post
Are you insinuating that there is no difference between conventional oil and synthetic?

Please tell me that's what you're trying to say.

I get that there is probably no set industry standard to which all motor oil processing must adhere in order to be deemed/considered/sold as synthetic, but you sound like you think that the term "synthetic" is marketing department voodoo and bears no influence on the nature of the product sold as such.

Sounds like you might just be picking some seriously small nits here with the word "definition".


you wouldn't know syn oil from regular if ya drank it
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 05:43 PM   #79
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default The NASIOC Oil Selection Guide

You're probably right, but that's not the point haha.

Edit: the point now is that since our friend blueballs has been proven wrong, he's attempting to find any possible gray area in our discussion.

Trying to insinuate that the term "synthetic" is some ambiguous and nondescript marketing term that adds no descriptive value to motor oil is even dumber than what he has been trying to sell since we started going back and forth.

Last edited by migaleddi; 05-10-2015 at 10:40 PM.
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 07:57 AM   #80
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

Default The NASIOC Oil Selection Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by migaleddi View Post
You're probably right, but that's not the point haha.

Edit: the point now is that since our friend blueballs has been proven wrong, he's attempting to find any possible gray area in our discussion.

Trying to insinuate that the term "synthetic" is some ambiguous and nondescript marketing term that adds no descriptive value to motor oil is even dumber than what he has been trying to sell since we started going back and forth.

There is no industry definition of "synthetic" in North America. If you think there is please provide one.

In the meantime, read comments here from Tom NJ:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2248265

Last edited by bluesubie; 05-11-2015 at 08:10 AM.
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 08:07 AM   #81
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
There is no industry definition of "synthetic". If you think there is please provide one. You should also post your thoughts at bobistheoilguy and you will probably get a response from a tribologist.

Do you read anything I post? I specifically stated that there probably is no rigid industry standard (definition) that must be followed, with which you seem to agree.

But just because there's no specific minimum processing standard set in stone, does not mean there's no difference between the two.
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 08:28 AM   #82
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by migaleddi View Post
Do you read anything I post? I specifically stated that there probably is no rigid industry standard (definition) that must be followed, with which you seem to agree.

But just because there's no specific minimum processing standard set in stone, does not mean there's no difference between the two.

There is no rigid or unrigid definition. I love how you twist things to suit your thinking. Bottom line is that the owner's manual recommends something that is a marketing term.

Quote:
That leaves individual oil marketers to grapple with how to define the synthetic oil lines they offer.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums.../1/Main/225750
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 08:59 AM   #83
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default The NASIOC Oil Selection Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
There is no rigid or unrigid definition. I love how you twist things to suit your thinking. Bottom line is that the owner's manual recommends something that is a marketing term.



http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums.../1/Main/225750

I haven't twisted anything. Neither of those links disprove the point I made.

I get it, the line between conventional and synthetic has been increasingly blurred over the years to the point that it's almost unrecognizable. However there remains a difference in the two, which obviously varies by oil manufacturer. One's inability to distinguish between the two based on what's on the label/bottle is immaterial and doesn't negate the differences.

Since your links have proven my point for me I'm going to recuse myself from the discussion. Thanks for the info.

Last edited by migaleddi; 05-11-2015 at 09:05 AM.
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 10:14 AM   #84
Uncle Scotty
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

the issue here isn't the word 'synthetic' on the bottle

the issue here is MOST...as in almost everybody.....like 99%...... who dumps their oil outta their engine before it has gone at least 4k miles will not see any difference in using any 'synthetic' oil over a 'regular' oil

in fact, there are some 'regular' oils that would likely hold up BETTER than the **** 'synthetic' oils in the short term.....like up to 3500 miles or so

the MAIN reason to use synthetic oil is extended oil change interval...and idiots who circumvent that main reason...and dump perfectly good oil at 3k or 3500 miles should save their money and just buy a good 10w30 and call it good

because they wouldn't see any difference in anything but maybe an mpg or 2
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 10:48 AM   #85
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default The NASIOC Oil Selection Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
the issue here isn't the word 'synthetic' on the bottle



the issue here is MOST...as in almost everybody.....like 99%...... who dumps their oil outta their engine before it has gone at least 4k miles will not see any difference in using any 'synthetic' oil over a 'regular' oil



in fact, there are some 'regular' oils that would likely hold up BETTER than the **** 'synthetic' oils in the short term.....like up to 3500 miles or so



the MAIN reason to use synthetic oil is extended oil change interval...and idiots who circumvent that main reason...and dump perfectly good oil at 3k or 3500 miles should save their money and just buy a good 10w30 and call it good



because they wouldn't see any difference in anything but maybe an mpg or 2

I understand that. You saying that the main reason for synthetics is for longer OCI's illustrates my point that there is in fact a difference between regular and synthetic, however narrow its practical application might be (in this case, the difference pretty much only allows for longer OCI's).

I get that fresh out of the bottle they offer very similar results short term. However one is able to go longer than the other. Hence, a difference between the two.

That's really all I was trying to say, aside from what the we were discussing pertaining to owner's manual requirements.
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 01:10 PM   #86
Uncle Scotty
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

and that's another point

what IS the owners manual saying??

whoever wrote it didn't know **** about **** and that is glaringly apparent
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 01:15 PM   #87
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
and that's another point



what IS the owners manual saying??



whoever wrote it didn't know **** about **** and that is glaringly apparent

Thank you. Many manufacturers avoid this by creating their own oil spec.
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 01:25 PM   #88
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default

I'm not going around in this circle again. It's all there, regardless of how counterintuitive or ambiguous the requirements/recommendations seem.
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 01:44 PM   #89
Uncle Scotty
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

and Subaru wants that BIG mpg number on the window sticker and using a proper oil may not get that number

this has been an issue since the 02 wrx hit and they put that really stupid 5w30 recommended on the oil cap

and those who used the wrong 5w30 had blown motors and those who ignored it and used BETTER oil didn't blow up nearly as often....

hell00000000000000000000oooooooo.
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 02:33 PM   #90
migaleddi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 298474
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Strider's Guest Room
Vehicle:
2014 WRX Hatch
ISM

Default

So much this ^
migaleddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 02:42 PM   #91
ToneWrx02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239095
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Goteborg, Sweden
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx
Silver

Default

Well then.... i been bombed with awesome info.

Personally i use Motul 300v 5w30 on my ej207 v7. Redline isnt available here.
ToneWrx02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 02:48 PM   #92
Uncle Scotty
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneWrx02 View Post
Well then.... i been bombed with awesome info.

Personally i use Motul 300v 5w30 on my ej207 v7. Redline isnt available here.





Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 12:00 PM   #93
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 OBXT
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Thank you. Many manufacturers avoid this by creating their own oil spec.
The whole OEM oil spec clusterpuck drives me nuts. Really? Why? The manufacturers are all highly influential members of the industry groups who write oil specs, why don't they write the industry standards to suit their needs? The Germans are the worst by far. Why do we need MB 229.51, VW 504/507, and BMW LL-04? For god's sake, write ACEA C3 to meet your needs and be done with it. Stop confusing customers and wasting engineer's time for no reason! The Americans are rapidly approaching the Germans in their stupidity with Ford's M2C and GM's dexos, for god's sake, write the ILSAC specs to meet your needs and be done!

The Japanese seem the only ones to have their *$#@ together. (Except Subaru)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
and that's another point

what IS the owners manual saying??

whoever wrote it didn't know **** about **** and that is glaringly apparent
I agree, but I doubt that "whoever" is one person. There's a poster on BITOG with a great signature which applies here: "Do not attribute to engineers that into which accountants, lawyers and marketers have poked their fingers."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Navy View Post
A huge thank you for this post. Excellent job. Over here in the UK, I only run Eneos ( Japan ) Sustina 5W 30.

Cheers
Sustina is great oil in many ways, but not really any better than top-tier ILSAC synthetics like Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Mobil 1. The claim to fame oil for Sustina is the 0w20 with it's 200+ VI. It's definitely thinner than Euro HD 5w30 oils.

Since you're in the UK, would you mind posting a picture of the oil section(s) of your owner's manual? It would be great to know what Subaru recommends in the UK. I've been looking for the UK equivalent of techinfo.subaru.com where I can download a UK manual, but without success.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 12:06 PM   #94
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 OBXT
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneWrx02 View Post
Well then.... i been bombed with awesome info.

Personally i use Motul 300v 5w30 on my ej207 v7. Redline isnt available here.
What's the relative cost of 300v in Sweden? I saw some truly frightening oil prices on my last trip to Norway, I'm assuming Sweden is similar.

As I said in the guide, there's little reason to use 300V due to it's extremely high cost (~$20/qt in the US). Any performance benefit over say, 8100 X-Clean are going to come under conditions far outside optimal operating conditions for the engine. You're better off buying an oil cooler and cheaper oil.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 06:08 PM   #95
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
The whole OEM oil spec clusterpuck drives me nuts. Really? Why? The manufacturers are all highly influential members of the industry groups who write oil specs, why don't they write the industry standards to suit their needs? The Germans are the worst by far. Why do we need MB 229.51, VW 504/507, and BMW LL-04? For god's sake, write ACEA C3 to meet your needs and be done with it. Stop confusing customers and wasting engineer's time for no reason! The Americans are rapidly approaching the Germans in their stupidity with Ford's M2C and GM's dexos, for god's sake, write the ILSAC specs to meet your needs and be done!



The Japanese seem the only ones to have their *$#@ together. (Except Subaru)

I see your point but I think the advantage is that you can just look for an oil with a certain spec instead of looking for a specific viscosity. Plus, as Lubrizol's comparison tool shows, each spec has different benefits so the oil is slightly more tuned to the application.

Of course, specs cost and that is passed on to the consumer. Leaving it just to an ACEA spec IS probably sufficient though.

Hmmm, Subaru spec = 3.5 HTHS, high moly, decent zinc, high calcium, and low phosphorus to be cat friendly. Yeah, that'll never happen when Subaru can improve on fuel economy by .25% across the fleet with GF5 oil.

Oh scratch the calcium. I recall reading something about high calcium and intake deposits on DI's.
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 12:33 AM   #96
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 OBXT
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I see your point but I think the advantage is that you can just look for an oil with a certain spec instead of looking for a specific viscosity. Plus, as Lubrizol's comparison tool shows, each spec has different benefits so the oil is slightly more tuned to the application.
Except Ford is the only one who uses different spec numbers for different grades. Even then the revision level can trip people up. Google should find you a brouhaha in the GT500 community when Ford revised the 5w50 spec and the Castrol 5w50 was only certified to the older revision.

Don't get me started on the VW/Audi 1.8t and TDI oil spec debacles. Overall I think industry specs reduce confusion.

Quote:
Hmmm, Subaru spec = 3.5 HTHS, high moly, decent zinc, high calcium, and low phosphorus to be cat friendly. Yeah, that'll never happen when Subaru can improve on fuel economy by .25% across the fleet with GF5 oil.
As long as the same people who wrote the manual don't get to write the Subaru OEM oil spec, I'm all for it.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 10:27 AM   #97
MWsubie7
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 403649
Join Date: Oct 2014
Default

My 2015 WRX has 7,200 miles on it and a stage 1 tune by Bren tuning. Bren didn't really have any recommendations for oil yet but didn't like how rotella held up in the new engines during their testing. I was thinking of using castrol edge 5w40 or castrol edge professional 5w40. Is there much difference between the two or is there another oil you would recommend?

I live in massachusetts so it gets pretty hot late summer and very cold in the winter.
MWsubie7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 10:40 AM   #98
Uncle Scotty
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWsubie7 View Post
My 2015 WRX has 7,200 miles on it and a stage 1 tune by Bren tuning. Bren didn't really have any recommendations for oil yet but didn't like how rotella held up in the new engines during their testing. I was thinking of using castrol edge 5w40 or castrol edge professional 5w40. Is there much difference between the two or is there another oil you would recommend?

I live in massachusetts so it gets pretty hot late summer and very cold in the winter.

how often is it over 90*F???

if you say less than 30x/year

it does not get hot where you are

and how often does it go below 0*F

yeah....I don't think you really understand hot and cold in MASS the way many in the usa do

but a 5w40 is fine for you and 99% of everybody else here
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 01:23 PM   #99
coop3422
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 280243
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Vehicle:
2007 LGT SpecB S2000
Charcoal

Default

Hey all,

I'm about to do an oil change on my 07 Spec B. It's higher mileage, 197k km, so maybe 120ish k miles.

I bought it off a mechanic who maintained it regularly and he used nothing but Amsoil synthetic. I was going to switch to T6 as I know Subaru drivers seem to prefer it over most. Made me think, Amsoil worked for the car this long, is it worth the switch?

He also said he'd throw in a bottle of engine oil flush before changing the oil to help with deposits not building up. Is this recommended? I have no problem buying a bottle if it'll help. How long should you drive the car after adding it (I haven't added it with previous vehicles)? I figured I'd buy the best filter they had, I used FRAM high mileage in my old Tundra.

And last is just a curiosity question. My car is stock height, do you guys typical jack your car up or put it on ramps to change the oil? Or is there enough room underneath to slide the drain pan and get to the drain plug/filter?

Thanks!

Oh, one other question, should the crush washer be changed every time?

Last edited by coop3422; 05-28-2015 at 01:29 PM.
coop3422 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 02:23 PM   #100
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 OBXT
OBP

Default

Jeez, Coop. You don't want much spoon feeding at all...

You didn't even mention which Amsoil Synthetic. All their oils are synthetic, and they make over a dozen varieties, some are very comparable to RT6, many aren't. Think category, not brand, that's the whole point of this thread.

Unless you have reason to believe the engine has been abused (very long OCIs) a good synthetic oil will keep it spotless inside, no oil flush needed. Engine oil flush is mostly snake oil, the ones that aren't snake oil should only be used in cases where you know (by removing the valve covers and/or oil pan) that there actually is sludge buildup. Find a different mechanic.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.