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Old 10-09-2019, 05:21 PM   #1
adam99
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Default SPEED DENSITY...ect

The time has come. Cobb finally released the update for speed density and a few other changes that will allow for more precise tuning. Fa platform is about to take another step forward.

https://www.cobbtuning.com/gen2-cust...5yhODjuL7FIMRY

From Cobb
COBB Custom Features are being expanded in a big way for 2015-2019 Subaru WRXs. All of the features listed below can now be found within a new ECU type dubbed “COBB v4.0 CCF (Custom Features Gen2)”. A large change from our previous CCF release for DIT WRXs is the inclusion of support for cars equipped with a CVT transmission. This ECU type is also based on Subaru’s latest factory programming which includes improvements for longer battery life, and more.

Speed Density Tuning
Boost Gauge Wrap
Boost Extend
Boost Smoothing
IPW Extend
Knock Sum Monitor
Load Extend
MAF Simple
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:33 PM   #2
idiosyncrisia
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Does this mean we can start using blow-off valves? Quick, buy HKS stock!
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:16 PM   #3
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The 2 most substantial changes in my opinion are

-The new calculated load extended will reach 10.2 and should allow for 1,000 ft lbs of tq. As far as datalogging and tuning, it appears that calculated load will still max at 3.3 so you will have to log/monitor calculated load extended so you can see the actual value.

-The new boost limit level will be "87 psi (relative to sea level) or ~100 psi (absolute)" An aftermarket map sensor will be needed to read past the factory limits and will operate the same as calculated load extended with the normal Manifold Abs Pressure monitor remaining the same and having an Manifold Abs Pressure extended monitor added.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:31 PM   #4
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This is a great step forward for the platform. Now they just need to release some type of auxiliary fuel management for adding port injection
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
This is a great step forward for the platform. Now they just need to release some type of auxiliary fuel management for adding port injection
I would think the next big step would be adding tables for injectors. One day maybe
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:57 PM   #6
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"During testing of Gen2 CCF, we enlisted the help of a local Subaru performance shop, Kozmic Motorsports, to help put these features to the test on a high-horsepower DIT WRX. To date, this is the only 9-second 1/4 mile DIT WRX. Now that Gen2 CCF is available to all Subaru Protuners we canít wait to see more and more 9-second WRXs!"
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:59 PM   #7
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Would there be any real benefit for future stage 1 e-tunes ? Worth a retune ?
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Would there be any real benefit for future stage 1 e-tunes ? Worth a retune ?
Any benefits? Potentially, worth a retune? Probably not with stage 1.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:08 PM   #9
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I heard from a reputable source the software was made available to pro-tuners just for liability reasons they couldn't actually tune people's cars lol.

So Adam are you going to do the switch?
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:19 AM   #10
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I am getting a speed density re-map in the spring, its how the car should of came from the factory IMO.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:24 AM   #11
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Well, that is interesting. Too bad we wont get to use it ourselves until 2020. I get the reason for it though. Let the pro tuners work the bugs out.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:54 PM   #12
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2 years later after I re-scaled a couple dozen tables to avoid the 3.3 load limit, Cobb finally releases an update...lol
IMO, I don't really see a good reason to switch to speed density on stock block/stock frame turbo. If the "MAF simple" thing works well, it's a better reason to keep it on MAF tuning.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuuusaa View Post
I heard from a reputable source the software was made available to pro-tuners just for liability reasons they couldn't actually tune people's cars lol.

So Adam are you going to do the switch?
Yeah, cobb didnt want a bunch of "tuners" with no experience trying to tune other peoples cars. Funny thing is some tuners still really shouldn't be touching this platform at least without learning a few things. I'll 100% be trying out SD when it is available.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoat333 View Post
Well, that is interesting. Too bad we wont get to use it ourselves until 2020. I get the reason for it though. Let the pro tuners work the bugs out.
Yeah I understand it but I just put on a Socal v3 and would love that extra headroom on maf. Still worth the wait.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
2 years later after I re-scaled a couple dozen tables to avoid the 3.3 load limit, Cobb finally releases an update...lol
IMO, I don't really see a good reason to switch to speed density on stock block/stock frame turbo. If the "MAF simple" thing works well, it's a better reason to keep it on MAF tuning.
As of now I agree, the one thing I think sd will do however is improve drive ability, which can make a BIG difference. All of those threads/posts about hesitation/stuttering(Maf load spikes) with aftermarket intakes as well as a few stocks shouldn't be a thing anymore after switching. I could be wrong about that. The biggest drawbacks with SD are temp/baro pressure changes. As long as the compensation tables are dialed in it could be a better setup. That's just my thinking.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:13 PM   #16
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Anyone got a place to point to for info regarding speed density? Like in general the subject. Want to learn more
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:31 PM   #17
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Source - https://www.xcceleration.com/sd-vs-maf.htm

Speed density systems (MAP) calculate the density of the air first by measuring the temperature of the inlet air and manifold pressure. With the density of air known the engine controller then looks up how much air it expects to bemoving at a specific engine speed and manifold pressure. This is done in the Volumetric Efficiency table or VE table. Traditionally the VE table is 3D and has two axes Engine Speed (RPM) and Manifold Pressure or % Load. A engine that is 100% efficient moves exactly its displacement every two rotations in 4-cycle engines.
Advantages
- Less restriction in the intake tract.
- More freedom in the intake tract.
- Able to measure air consumption on very high horsepower builds where a MAF sensor might be limited.
- Able to read boost if equipped with a greater than 1 Bar map sensor.
- Free from errors encountered in MAF fouling.
- Works better with large cams where reversion affects reliability.
Disadvantages
- Is a little more difficult to tune.
- Relies on a well tuned Volumetric Efficiency Table.
- Less forgiving to new modifications to the engine.
- Might have errors in large weather changes however a proper tune makes this minimal if any error.
There are several vehicles that come with MAF sensors from the factory and there are several vehicles that come speed density (MAP) from the factory. Really which fueling strategy you should go with on a aftermarket application is up to your modifications goals and expectations.

I used this a lot back in my DSM tuning days lol.. check this out.

http://ecmtuning.com/wiki/sd101

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam99 View Post
Yeah, cobb didnt want a bunch of "tuners" with no experience trying to tune other peoples cars. Funny thing is some tuners still really shouldn't be touching this platform at least without learning a few things. I'll 100% be trying out SD when it is available.
Well that's funny you mention that but time will tell whose going to be the big dog with tuning our cars on SD. Thought you were tuning your car? Shouldn't you have access to it already?
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuuusaa View Post
Source - https://www.xcceleration.com/sd-vs-maf.htm

Speed density systems (MAP) calculate the density of the air first by measuring the temperature of the inlet air and manifold pressure. With the density of air known the engine controller then looks up how much air it expects to bemoving at a specific engine speed and manifold pressure. This is done in the Volumetric Efficiency table or VE table. Traditionally the VE table is 3D and has two axes Engine Speed (RPM) and Manifold Pressure or % Load. A engine that is 100% efficient moves exactly its displacement every two rotations in 4-cycle engines.
Advantages
- Less restriction in the intake tract.
- More freedom in the intake tract.
- Able to measure air consumption on very high horsepower builds where a MAF sensor might be limited.
- Able to read boost if equipped with a greater than 1 Bar map sensor.
- Free from errors encountered in MAF fouling.
- Works better with large cams where reversion affects reliability.
Disadvantages
- Is a little more difficult to tune.
- Relies on a well tuned Volumetric Efficiency Table.
- Less forgiving to new modifications to the engine.
- Might have errors in large weather changes however a proper tune makes this minimal if any error.
There are several vehicles that come with MAF sensors from the factory and there are several vehicles that come speed density (MAP) from the factory. Really which fueling strategy you should go with on a aftermarket application is up to your modifications goals and expectations.

I used this a lot back in my DSM tuning days lol.. check this out.

http://ecmtuning.com/wiki/sd101

Hope this helps.
Much appreciated bud!
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:38 PM   #20
fishfangs
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Excited about the fact that the "...ECU type is also based on Subaru’s latest factory programming which includes improvements for longer battery life, and more."

Been holding off on tunes because of this.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:22 PM   #21
CerOf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobultimatum View Post
Anyone got a place to point to for info regarding speed density? Like in general the subject. Want to learn more
https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wik...e+2.0+2.5L+DIT

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-gu...-ideal-gas-law

I just read it last night. It will either put you to sleep or keep you awake. It's one of those real heady reads that could do either.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:13 PM   #22
adam99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuuusaa View Post
Well that's funny you mention that but time will tell whose going to be the big dog with tuning our cars on SD. Thought you were tuning your car? Shouldn't you have access to it already?
Nope, only available to the protuners right now. Two different versions, Accesstuner HL available for all cobb certified tuners(Protuners) and normal ole accesstuner for enthusiast tuners who want to tune their own car.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:39 PM   #23
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protuners are the beta testers... brotuners will get it when it's good.

If it's anything like how Cobb does it on the EJ then there should be a hybrid option so you can have the best of SD and MAF.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:14 PM   #24
adam99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
protuners are the beta testers... brotuners will get it when it's good.

If it's anything like how Cobb does it on the EJ then there should be a hybrid option so you can have the best of SD and MAF.
I believe there is a setting in which you can choose between blended or full SD in the custom features.
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