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Old 08-23-2012, 10:45 AM   #11
Precious ❄
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norfeast

Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
I really don't think Gracie to be the superior grappler.
I don't know why you would think so either, other than BJJ being your style of choice. Being that BJJ is derived heavily from judo and the grappling is much the same, I find it puzzling that you think the Olympic athlete is behind someone who competes in the worlds. The worlds is small stage compared to the Olympics. That's like saying the Pan Am Games for wrestling is more competitive than the Olympics.
Sport(Olympic) judo is highly focused on the stand-up side of grappling. As a result, most judo practitioners spend significantly more time working the stand-up techniques. I watched a bunch of Olympic judo and I watched the judo worlds 2 years ago. The ground technique is nowhere near the level of elite BJJ players. (There's no doubt that the inverse is true as well. If I went a round with Poison he'd probably throw me on my head.) Heck, the armbar that won the semifinals match for Kayla Harrison was very poorly defended. I've seen this in my limited real life experiences as well. A couple years ago we had two brown belts from a local judo dojo come in a few times. Every one of our blue belts was able to tune those guys up on the ground.

Poison, do you agree?

Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
I don't think we've seen anyone have this much of a skill gap since the early UFCs. I think that's attributed to 1) the woman's division not being deep enough 2) the women haven't evolved into true expert MMA fighters and 3) no one has seen someone as skilled at judo as Ronda, put it all together.

Olympic wrestlers don't usually come in to dominate so fast but we see Hendo having serious success and the more recent story is Daniel Cormier. Dans pretty much put everyone on notice.

I'm sorry, but your Gracie family can't do that anymore. They generally get pummeled by any high level MMA fighter. Even in grappling, in MMA, I've seen plenty of fighters that can be in their guard and still find plenty of ways to win.

I think it all boils down to - BJJ's secrets are long out of the bag. Everyone trains it, so even super high level BJJ fighters are having difficulties subbing people (Damien Maia. Toquino was one of the last one trick ponies and saw how Belcher was able to counter and handle everything he threw at him). No one sees judo in the sort of application that Rousey is using it.

I agree that judo is a great base for MMA. But I don't get why you think it is more dominant than BJJ or any other art. Aside from Ronda, there really aren't any judo base fighters at a high level. It hasn't worked out for Parysian, Akiyama, Sokoudjou or Gamburyan. Probably the best one right now is Rick Hawn. He won Bellator's LW tournament and will fight for the title soon. Coincidentally, Rick teaches judo at my academy.

Oh and I think Roger Gracie has a pretty good chance at being the next dominant BJJ based MMA fighter.

p.s. Ronda's ground game is so good because she also trained/trains BJJ. IIRC she's been training under Gracie black belt Henry Akins for quite a while.

Last edited by Thug; 08-23-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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