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Old 06-16-2019, 08:29 PM   #1
banyan
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News Subaru Forester, Outback, Legacy No Longer Cars Most Likely to Reach 200,000 Miles


What happened to Subaru’s status as a brand with high-mileage vehicles?
Subaru was recently known as an automaker that made cars going more miles than most others, but that has changed. The Japanese automaker had all-wheel-drive cars reaching 200,000 plus miles plus and the Subaru Legacy has been known as the longest lasting sedan in America as recently as 2016. But recent studies say things are changing.

As recently as 2016, Subaru had three cars on the iSeeCars “Longest Lasting Vehicles Over 200,000 Miles” list. The Subaru Legacy was number 6, Outback number 9 and Forester number 10. In 2017 the Subaru Legacy ranked 6th on the Top 16 Longest-Lasting Cars list, Outback was 7th, and Forester ranked 8th overall.

But something changed in 2018. No Subaru vehicles ranked on the top-10 list. Not surprisingly, the list is dominated by Toyota and Honda, and Ford and Chevy also have two cars on the list.

This year iSeeCars did the study again, analyzed over 13.8 million cars sold in 2018 to determine which models have the highest percentage of cars that reached 200,000 miles. Subaru scores zero vehicles on any of the lists two years in-a-row.

The Subaru brand does not show up until number 8 on the Cars Most Likely to Reach 200,000 Miles by Make list. Subaru ranks 0.6 percent of their vehicles reaching the 200K mile mark which is below the average of all auto brands at 0.8 percent. Japanese rival Toyota ranks number one at 1.7 percent followed by Honda at 1.5 percent. American automakers GMC, Chevrolet, Ram, and Ford are also all above the average for all models.

What happened to Subaru?
Subaru of America has experienced tremendous growth over the last 10 years and with success has also come problems for the Japanese automaker. Subaru Corporation has struggled to keep their all-wheel-drive cars moving off their assembly lines in Japan without problems because of the record number of vehicles being sold in the U.S. The Japanese automaker had to shut down the Subaru plant in Gunma, Japan because of a power steering component defect in January.

In 2017 Subaru was also hit with improper vehicle inspections scandal in Japan, massive global recall for a faulty engine valve spring last year, and 1.3 million vehicles recalled in the U.S. over a faulty brake light switch malfunction in March.

Dealer concerns
Last year, Subaru dealers in the U.S. expressed concern about how the Japanese automaker’s overall product line is slipping in quality. The board wrote, “Unfortunately, customers continue to have many issues with their Subarus, and the brand continues to slip in IQS and other industry metrics related to product quality. This is unacceptable and contradictory to what Subaru continues to tell the board and retailers about improvements being made thru quality initiatives.”

With its impressive growth, Subaru Corporation is having growing pains in Japan and the U.S. market. Subaru Corp has recently announced they have a new "Quality Policy" in order to realize "quality reform" which is one of the themes of the medium-term management vision "STEP" announced in July 2018. The first statement on the policy says “We will deliver products that can be used with confidence for a long time.”

Subaru Corp knows they have issues and they are making changes to fix them. Subaru customers are loyal, but they will lose confidence in the Forester, Outback, and Legacy if they don’t get it fixed soon.

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/suba...h-200000-miles
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:05 PM   #2
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Saw this article a little while ago in my news feed. It's a shame, but I guess to be expected. With Subaru's rapid growth, something was bound to suffer, and unfortunately it's their quality. I only hope they can get back some of their mojo that brought them to the dance in the first place.
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:10 PM   #3
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Fake news.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Man10 View Post
Fake news.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2901222


Peace,

Greg

Last edited by b4wantab; 06-17-2019 at 07:20 AM. Reason: link problems
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:59 AM   #5
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Makes complete sense really when you consider the mass shift to CVT (many won't make it to 100k miles) and all the oil consumption issues. Subaru badly needs to invest in a proper automatic for the Outback, Legacy, and Ascent as it should help overall reliability of the brand as well as offer transmissions more appropriate for the price range.

Last edited by heavyD; 06-17-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Makes complete sense really when you consider the mass shift to CVT (many won't make it to 100k miles) and all the oil consumption issues. Subaru badly needs to invest in a proper automatic for the Outback, Legacy, and Ascent as it should help overall reliability of the brand as well as offer transmissions more appropriate for the price range.
That or a shift to EV's
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:22 PM   #7
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This a clear deflection from the fact that Subaru sales and profit are through the roof. I haven't seen this report on OAN or FOX!! Disband people, nothing to see here. "Love" will fix all these woes. Silly liberal media.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:00 AM   #8
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I was not aware that Subaru has ever made a head gasket that has survived 200k miles.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:59 AM   #9
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Subaru does a great job of perpetuating the "reliability" of their brand.

after 4 Subarus i know otherwise, and i'm done with them.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:26 AM   #10
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Every manufacturer has problems, it is how they handle the problems. SOA by-and-large does a very good job. The dealers are still a bit of a weak link at times. However, I think they always will be.

FHI/Subaru made too many engineering concessions in the name of costs that have hurt durability. We have been talking about it here for years and now the general numbers are out. Are you really that surprised?

Give them a chance to recover. The problem is it will probably take 5+ years to really get back on track.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Every manufacturer has problems, it is how they handle the problems. SOA by-and-large does a very good job. The dealers are still a bit of a weak link at times.

I must be an outlier with SOA, my 2012 Impreza had excessive oil consumption, dealer fixed with a new shortblock but then developed a leak around the cam carriers that smelled like burnt oil every time I drove. Called the dealer, they didn’t do anything. Called SOA, best they were able to do was a $300 voucher towards a $3000 repair that they caused.
Luckily the car got totalled and my Legacy doesn’t have any issues (yet)
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Every manufacturer has problems, it is how they handle the problems. SOA by-and-large does a very good job. The dealers are still a bit of a weak link at times. However, I think they always will be.

FHI/Subaru made too many engineering concessions in the name of costs that have hurt durability. We have been talking about it here for years and now the general numbers are out. Are you really that surprised?

Give them a chance to recover. The problem is it will probably take 5+ years to really get back on track.

Peace,

Greg
The reality is that Subaru has struggled to make reliable engines for some time and but the momentum of the brand over the past decade kind of blanketed underlying issues. It's finally come to a head and they really need to nail down future engine designs as oil consumption really shouldn't be much of an issue in this day and age and as a person that has owned several new cars from several different brands the only ones that used oil has been our two Subaru's and my 2012 Mustang GT (coyote engine does consume oil). BMW has these super long oil change intervals that you have to adhere to for free service and I went basically 8 months on the same oil and it never moved from the full. That would never happen with our Subaru's as the oil mark always drops over time.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
I must be an outlier with SOA, my 2012 Impreza had excessive oil consumption, dealer fixed with a new shortblock but then developed a leak around the cam carriers that smelled like burnt oil every time I drove. Called the dealer, they didn’t do anything. Called SOA, best they were able to do was a $300 voucher towards a $3000 repair that they caused.
Luckily the car got totalled and my Legacy doesn’t have any issues (yet)
This!! Exactly, except I never got work done on my oil consumption or had the leaky cam carriers seal fixed. I never contacted SOA about the issue but then my car got totalled too.

New Subaru is working fine so far. Only 7600 miles in!!
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:44 PM   #14
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Isnt it a little early for CVTs to be the reason for a decline in 200K cars? I think that will be what prevents them from returning to this list in the next 7 years.

I'm looking at the top cars thinking.. they are everywhere.. not just in the rust belt where subarus mostly are. Rust is a big player where I am and is often the death of cars before engine/tranny.
Also, most are trucks or large SUVs based off of truck chassis.. so durability is probably a key factor for people buying them in the first place. These suvs and trucks are built to tow which the average person isnt doing.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:13 AM   #15
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The article at TorqueNews is a prime example of shoddy "journalism."

Because the whole thing rests on the survey that iSeeCars did both times.

So, what was iSeeCars methodology?
Quote:
iSeeCars.com analyzed over 12 million cars sold in 2015 from model years 1981 through 2016. Models that were not in production as of the 2015 model year were excluded from further analysis, as were models with fewer than 10,000 cars sold. For each model, the number of cars with at least 200,000 miles was expressed as a percentage of the total number of cars sold. The current ranking of each model was also compared with the ranking from the 2014 study. Note that for the 2014 study, the analysis focused on used cars for sale; for the current study the analysis included only cars that were sold, as a representative sample of cars currently on the road.
Source: https://www.iseecars.com/longest-las...ars-2016-study


In other words, this site only looked at Cars That Changed Hands for that particular year. Thus, the methodology only catches people who sell cars with over 200k miles.

So the only thing this survey can say with any accuracy is that the percentage of cars with 200k that changed hands (or were offered for sale) were fewer this time around. It says nothing about anything else.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:25 AM   #16
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The test could be flawed. But, if these vehicles were typically always in the running and now have completely dropped off the running. something has changed. As long as their methodology has stayed the same.

I definitely don't think Subarus are as durable as they used to be.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:29 AM   #17
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Well they did hire a Quality Control guy...
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:25 AM   #18
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What a crock of a thread.

The sky's not falling. It already fell.

Longevity has left the building. People want satisfaction Now, not 200k later. Gas mileage and performance is their goal... and swallow the Trojan horse from direct injection down willing throats.

Nothing to see here. Move on.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:57 AM   #19
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2015 wrx with 51,000 miles that's been at the dealer 6 of the 12 months for engine problems. Now I have CVT oil leak issue and a new ETU that needs changing and it's back at the dealer. My 2002 wrx was at 196,000 miles when I sold it in 2014 with only a radiator change. Quality has definitely gone down and I'm seriously contemplating if my next car will be a subie. Which sucks because I love the wrx. 😔
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannabe WRX View Post
The article at TorqueNews is a prime example of shoddy "journalism."

Because the whole thing rests on the survey that iSeeCars did both times.

So, what was iSeeCars methodology?


Source: https://www.iseecars.com/longest-las...ars-2016-study


In other words, this site only looked at Cars That Changed Hands for that particular year. Thus, the methodology only catches people who sell cars with over 200k miles.

So the only thing this survey can say with any accuracy is that the percentage of cars with 200k that changed hands (or were offered for sale) were fewer this time around. It says nothing about anything else.
Honestly that sample size is probably big enough to be pretty accurate in the distribution of 200k miles vehicles.

Rather than blame the CVT's where most them would need to have been averaging 25K+ miles years to show up in this study, it is likely the performance hey day of Subaru US offerings affecting the 200k miles vehicle. Many of the Legacy, Outback EJ255 Turbo models aren't reaching 200k miles very often on the original motor The EJ25 2.5i blown or leaking headgasket where the repair approaches the value of the vehicle are not helping either, though that would have been a factor in earlier studies.
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