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Old 03-08-2004, 06:54 PM   #1
treybomb
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Default Front sway bar worth it?

I've sold myself on getting the Perrin rear swaybar (w/ heavy-duty mounts) and Perrin endlinks, but I'm not quite sure yet about the benefits of an upgraded front swaybar.

"Improved stability, turn-in, and steering response"

There's some good info on this thread, but I'm still not sure whether or not to get the front swaybar as well.

For those who have done the install... how is it? Taking the subframe off doesn't seem too bad, but it seems lots of people are worried they'll screw something up. Is it really that hard?

I don't AutoX/track (yet) so I'm just looking for better handling / less body roll / less understeer on the street.

Thanks,

Trevor
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Old 03-08-2004, 11:37 PM   #2
treybomb
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Can anyone with rear swaybar who added a front swaybar comment on how things changed?
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Old 03-09-2004, 12:25 AM   #3
abaxter34
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i highly suggest doing it. it drastically increases turn in response and it really flattens out the car in the corners. there has been a lot of debate about whether or not it will add understeer which in all honesty it will, but it is a different sort of understeer than the car has from the factory. it actually adds a lot of grip to the front end of the car do to the fact that it actually wont let the front suspension go thru its full range of motion. a macpherson struts natural tendency is to increase positive camber thru its full range of motion which promotes the loss of grip. the fsb will limit how much of this positive camber is gained. when you get to the cars limit the bigger bar will make it understeer but you will have to push it a lot harder to get it to do that. you can easily eliminate this by just bumping your rear sway bar up one setting though. my front and rear bar have made a very neutral, flat, grippy setup. i wouldnt go back to not having a front bar.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:03 PM   #4
VSG
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Thanks abaxter, I was wondering the same thing.

FSB sounds like just the thing I need/want.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:45 PM   #5
tora
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I did it on my legacy and was definitely a noticeable improvement however I found the Whiteline ALK made more of a difference. I have since taken the front bar off as it was rubbing on my new headers. I've installed a Perrin Bar on a WRX and was not impressed as on one of the settings the bar was being forced to flip over (so the endlinks and bar were very low under the car). The design quality of the Perrin stuff seemed a little hokey and looks like they put minimal R&D into it, rather they just coppied someone elses bar and added a few minor changes.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:50 PM   #6
dowroa
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I would definitely suggest a smaller front bar...

Oversteer!!! Yay!!

Isnt that what the SPT kit does? Smaller front and larger rear?

Follow Subaru's lead

- dow
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Old 03-15-2004, 10:29 PM   #7
abaxter34
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i have a wagon so i went with the whiteline front bar because they make one specifically for the narrower track. i didnt run into any of the problems that Tora mentioned. however it isnt adjustable, but i dont think the whiteline really needs adjustment, it feels perfectly suited to the car. i do like my perrin rear bar though. if your still thinking about putting one on there is some pretty good reading on the front bar in the motorsports forum, i trust a lot of those guys opinions because they obviously track their cars.
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Old 03-15-2004, 10:50 PM   #8
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For the street, especially the roads aren't good where you are, the 'comfort' ALK and HD front endlinks may be a better option.

abaxter34 points out that the larger bar won't let the suspension go through it's full range of motion....bad juju on bad roads.

Removing the 'slop' in the front end by stifining it structurally and by using stiffer bushings as well as increasing caster is a better way to go for a street driven vehicle, IMO.

There is a HUGE amount of good info on suspension stuff here: http://svc007.bne143p.server-web.com/reviews03.htm
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Old 03-15-2004, 10:57 PM   #9
ConeMasher
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I've driven my front bar'd WRX sedan (set at 23mm) for the past year. As I was SCCA D-Stock legal, this was my only suspension modification other than Koni adjustable struts. The bar substantially reduced body roll, and increased total front end grip by reducing camber loss under compression. To compensate for the understeer resulting from the increased front stiffness, I simply increased the rebound in the rears with the Koni's. This resulted in a net gain.

You can bet your life that the STX car I'm driving this season will have front AND rear bars.

-- Gary
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:09 PM   #10
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ConeMasher...what you say is all fine and good....but I really wish that people would stop trying to equate what works for a particular autocross class as to what works on the street.
The two are not the same thing.

Just because they do it in D-stock does NOT mean that it is the best way to do it...it just means that that is what the rules allow in D-stock.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:28 AM   #11
rankink
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Quote:
Originally posted by abaxter34
i highly suggest doing it. it drastically increases turn in response and it really flattens out the car in the corners. there has been a lot of debate about whether or not it will add understeer which in all honesty it will, but it is a different sort of understeer than the car has from the factory. it actually adds a lot of grip to the front end of the car do to the fact that it actually wont let the front suspension go thru its full range of motion. a macpherson struts natural tendency is to increase positive camber thru its full range of motion which promotes the loss of grip. the fsb will limit how much of this positive camber is gained. when you get to the cars limit the bigger bar will make it understeer but you will have to push it a lot harder to get it to do that. you can easily eliminate this by just bumping your rear sway bar up one setting though. my front and rear bar have made a very neutral, flat, grippy setup. i wouldnt go back to not having a front bar.

What he said. I have the 22mm front whiteline and rear adjustable whiteline. Made a very big difference in driving on the autocross and on the street as well.

k
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:51 AM   #12
ConeMasher
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Scotty, I didn't state "Here's my D-Stock setup, I recommend it for EVERYONE on the street, track, and rally". What I said was, even with JUST a front bar, I noticed improvements in performance, and that given the opportunity to run any configuration of bar (i.e. STX), that I would run BOTH.

I was just trying to answers the original question, which was:
Quote:
...but I'm not quite sure yet about the benefits of an upgraded front swaybar.
Considering I was running the front bar in isolation, I had the opportunity to understand the effect of JUST the front bar, independent of other variables.

-- Gary

Last edited by ConeMasher; 03-16-2004 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:11 AM   #13
VSG
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Might as well ask opinions on this:

What do you think of solid/stiffer endlinks for the FSB?

I have a RSB I will install soon and will get endlinks and heavy-duty mounts for it. I heard it's not as important for the FSB. That true? or are stiffer endlinks a good investment?
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