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Old 07-17-2018, 08:11 PM   #1
Ziguk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 488463
Join Date: Jul 2018
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Wrexham Wales United Kingdom
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Type UK
silver

Default Strangest Intermittent starting issue

Hi all
I purchased a lovely 2004 blobeye sti type uk approx a month ago
I havenít really been able to drive it since purchase because of a strange intermittent starting problem, I have spent pretty much all this time trying to fix the issue to no avail.
So here it goes...

Turn on ignition, hear pump prime car starts no problem drives all day.
If I stop engine at any point after the 1st couple of minutes then pump doesnít prime, ignition circuit also cut,
Cranks normal but wonít even try to fire
If I leave it to cool down anywhere between 20 mins and many hours the car behaves as normal pump primes car starts

I have swapped complete fuel pump unit
Fuel pump controller
Fuel pump relay
Main relay
Cam sensor
Crank sensor
Temp sensor
Sigma m30 box
All relays drivers side and passenger side
All relays in fuse box
Alarm and central locking work fine.
Left ignition on for hour to see if itís something electronic heating up as long as I donít start engine pump prime and will start
Hard wired pump to power pump primes but no spark

Whatever it is seems to be heat related if I run it for short period it will start after waiting a shortish period maybe 20 minutes, if I run her to temp then it could be hours before she will start
Donít know what else to try
Anyone had similar issue?
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:29 AM   #2
Ziguk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 488463
Join Date: Jul 2018
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Wrexham Wales United Kingdom
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Type UK
silver

Default Guess this has also got every stumped

Guess this has also got every stumped 😞

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziguk View Post
Hi all
I purchased a lovely 2004 blobeye sti type uk approx a month ago
I havenít really been able to drive it since purchase because of a strange intermittent starting problem, I have spent pretty much all this time trying to fix the issue to no avail.
So here it goes...

Turn on ignition, hear pump prime car starts no problem drives all day.
If I stop engine at any point after the 1st couple of minutes then pump doesnít prime, ignition circuit also cut,
Cranks normal but wonít even try to fire
If I leave it to cool down anywhere between 20 mins and many hours the car behaves as normal pump primes car starts

I have swapped complete fuel pump unit
Fuel pump controller
Fuel pump relay
Main relay
Cam sensor
Crank sensor
Temp sensor
Sigma m30 box
All relays drivers side and passenger side
All relays in fuse box
Alarm and central locking work fine.
Left ignition on for hour to see if itís something electronic heating up as long as I donít start engine pump prime and will start
Hard wired pump to power pump primes but no spark

Whatever it is seems to be heat related if I run it for short period it will start after waiting a shortish period maybe 20 minutes, if I run her to temp then it could be hours before she will start
Donít know what else to try
Anyone had similar issue?
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:36 AM   #3
Jack
Add Lightness
Moderator
 
Member#: 13699
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
not my president
(From General)

Default

I'm big on diagnosing a problem rather than swapping parts till the problem is fixed. What I would do:

Get yourself a volt meter. Run wires first directly to the fuel pump. I'd have the meter up where I can see it while driving. If you turn the key and you have no voltage on the pump, then go upstream. Try the relay output. Still nothing? Try the coil of the relay. If still nothing, try right at the ECU pins that control the relay.

If there's a wire that's broken but making contact most of the time, for example, you should be able to find it doing this.

I can tell you how to make the fuel pump run without fail, but I'm sure you know how to do this too.

Good luck.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:28 AM   #4
Charlie-III
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 30669
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: USA, North NJ, 07456
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy 2.5GT
Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT

Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziguk View Post
Guess this has also got everyone else stumped 😞
Most of us are in North America, you have to wait for peeps to get back to work where they cruise the forums.


How do you "know" the alarm is working correctly?
I will guess you have 2 issues (unless they share a common power or ground).
So, when this happens you have no fuel pressure or spark. How do you know about spark?

Does ambient temp make a difference?
Does running other bits make a difference (stereo, HVAC, etc.)?

We will assume this issue has been there since purchase a month ago?
If so, did you contact seller for ideas? Like, was it doing it to them (maybe why they sold), or recent work just before sale?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I'm big on diagnosing a problem rather than swapping parts till the problem is fixed. What I would do:

Get yourself a volt meter. Run wires first directly to the fuel pump. I'd have the meter up where I can see it while driving. If you turn the key and you have no voltage on the pump, then go upstream. Try the relay output. Still nothing? Try the coil of the relay. If still nothing, try right at the ECU pins that control the relay.

If there's a wire that's broken but making contact most of the time, for example, you should be able to find it doing this.

I can tell you how to make the fuel pump run without fail, but I'm sure you know how to do this too.

Good luck.
I think he already did a FP power mod.

I hate intermittents, either work, or Frikkin die. Period.

I have had luck, at times, using a can of DustOff to cool parts when an issue happens. If it's takes a while to cool with ambient, sometimes a shot of a cooler shortens the recovery time.
A "free way to check" is......open hood one time, does recovery happen faster? If yes, then under hood.
If not, try opening all doors, does it recover faster? Yes, great work there. No, try something else.

Another thought is (along with what Jack posted), issue happens, grab a harness, wiggle around, try again.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:30 AM   #5
Charlie-III
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 30669
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: USA, North NJ, 07456
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy 2.5GT
Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT

Default

Oh, and at least fill in a country (UK?) or state/Provence if in NA for location.
Some basics on the car is nice as well, stock, modded, what market it was built for, whatever....
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:49 AM   #6
Ziguk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 488463
Join Date: Jul 2018
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Wrexham Wales United Kingdom
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Type UK
silver

Default

Hi

How do you "know" the alarm is working correctly? Car locks / unlocks correctly, key led goes out when key is near steering column and red led bu clock also go out and of course car starts
I will guess you have 2 issues (unless they share a common power or ground).
So, when this happens you have no fuel pressure or spark. How do you know about spark?
educated guess as when I hard wire pump so pump starts as soon as ignition is on I then crank engine doesn't try to fire even though there's fuel in system

Does ambient temp make a difference? No
Does running other bits make a difference (stereo, HVAC, etc.)? No

We will assume this issue has been there since purchase a month ago?
If so, did you contact seller for ideas? Like, was it doing it to them (maybe why they sold), or recent work just before sale?
Yes this issue happened when I was on my way to meet owner, to be fair the owner did give me the option to change my mind about purchase, but as I was getting a good example of the STI I presumed worse case scenario was it was broken fuel pump I decided to continue with purchase.
It belonged to a soldier so was averaging very few annual miles, he told me he had never had any issues
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:07 PM   #7
Ziguk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 488463
Join Date: Jul 2018
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Wrexham Wales United Kingdom
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Type UK
silver

Default

HI

I'm big on diagnosing a problem rather than swapping parts till the problem is fixed. What I would do:

Get yourself a volt meter. Run wires first directly to the fuel pump. I'd have the meter up where I can see it while driving. If you turn the key and you have no voltage on the pump, then go upstream. Try the relay output. Still nothing? Try the coil of the relay. If still nothing, try right at the ECU pins that control the relay.

Car works fine all day whilst driving no issues at all as long as I don't stop engine.
Voltage at fuel pump relay is just under 12 volts with ignition on,
I removed the main brown relay as this powers both fuel circuit and ignition etc and put wire jumpers across the terminals, same effect as basically having relay switched on, it seemed to work at 1st ran the car for 45 minutes turned off went to turn back on and again no fuel pump priming.
I closed car disconnected battery as didn't want to leave it with wires everywhere whilst I wasn't about, 1st thing in the morning reconnect battery starts straight away


If there's a wire that's broken but making contact most of the time, for example, you should be able to find it doing this.

I can tell you how to make the fuel pump run without fail, but I'm sure you know how to do this too.

Good luck.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:36 PM   #8
Ziguk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 488463
Join Date: Jul 2018
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Wrexham Wales United Kingdom
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Type UK
silver

Default Hi all from the uk

just to introduce myself
My name is Zig live in Wrexham wales, United Kingdom,
Work in IT and do most of my own car repairs, moved over to an STI from Bmw 535d modified to 400bhp and just under 800nm. Not sure if I have made a good decision or bad yet lol 😂

Current car modified 2004 Blobeye WRX STI

ProDrive wheels in Nardo grey
Tein lowering Springs on STI shocks
Full 3 inch exhaust system and decat
Defi gauges
lemco boost gauge
Large uprated oil cooler
Front strut brace
All polybushed
Whiteline roll centre bump steer correction kit
Whiteline anti lift kit
New HD droplinks
Ecotek remap 348bhp with launch control
Competition clutch
black dimpled and grooved brake discs
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:51 PM   #9
Charlie-III
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 30669
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: USA, North NJ, 07456
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy 2.5GT
Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT

Default

Thanks for car info and location.

I am not sure on further troubleshooting for your issue, but may help,others.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:13 PM   #10
Ziguk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 488463
Join Date: Jul 2018
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Wrexham Wales United Kingdom
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Type UK
silver

Default

In the olden days ignition was controlled by distributor which had a rotor arm that spun and fired off the spark from a single ignition coil to each cylinder in turn, nowadays most cars including scooby has a coilpack on each cylinder but something must tell it when to fire each cylinder, question is is there some sort of single ignition module that the ecu talks to which in turn fires a pulse to the coil packs or are each of the ignition coil packs fed directly from the ecu?

Looking to see if thereís say single point which is being connected disconnect eg like say in the old days if I interrupted one of the ignition coil wires on the lt side car would crank but no spark similar to effect Iím getting now
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