Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Open Source Reflashes

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2013, 06:35 PM   #1
ammo0000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175401
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Knob Noster, MO
Vehicle:
2018 Focus ST
White

Default Learned Ignition Timing Question

Hey all. So I'm neither a novice nor expert at tuning, but I like to think I know enough to get by. So the story is that I was stationed in Utah with high altitude and 91 octane. Then I was transferred to Maryland with low altitude and 93 octane. I was over-boosting because of the lower altitude and I was able to tune that out using the WGDC table. Next I'm trying to increase the timing to make the most out of the 93 octane.

I have a 07 WRX TR with a TXS turboback, Cobb intake with GS intake elbow, GS 3-port EBCS, and an 08 STI TMIC.

The reason I'm posting is because I'm not sure why exactly, when I log after a tune, the Learned Ignition Timing is consistently a +3 to +6 throughout the RPM range. Then if I try and raise the timing in those ranges, I start getting timing pulled in my Fine Learning Knock Correction section of the spreadsheet.

In the areas that the LIT is raised 6*, I would raise it 4* in the table, but the LIT still trys to add 6* on top of that. This is causing me to have too much timing and my IAM drops and I get pulled timing in the FLKC column.

Basically I'm trying to find out why my LIT is always as high as it can go. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
ammo0000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-27-2013, 09:16 PM   #2
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

What is 'learned ignition timing'? In other words, what is the real name for it on the logger?
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:25 PM   #3
ammo0000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175401
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Knob Noster, MO
Vehicle:
2018 Focus ST
White

Default

That's just one of the check boxes when you're choosing what you want to log. Not sure what else to call it since that's exactly what it says in the top of the column.
ammo0000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 11:16 PM   #4
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

Ahh, realized you're an '07... Timing sucks on these. Could you post some datalogs?
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 10:32 AM   #5
idipskoalmint
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169716
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Albany, NY
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
WTF Tuned

Default

Are you logging the amount of advance the ECU is adding?

Post a picture of your KCA Max table with your logs.
idipskoalmint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 11:31 AM   #6
ammo0000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175401
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Knob Noster, MO
Vehicle:
2018 Focus ST
White

Default

Isn't the Learned Ignition Timing and Fine Learning Knock Correction the two that show what the ECU is adding? For example, when I started off adjusting my timing, it was set at 11.29* on the base timing table for 2.5 Engine Load at 6400 RPMs. When I logged it, it was showing 18* Ignition Total Timing and 7.5* in the Learned Ignition Timing. The Fine Learning Knock Correction was at 0. I'm just using this as one example since I don't know how to post a spreadsheet. After several increases of 1* throughout the powerband, the Learned Ignition Timing dropped to 6 but no lower. The Ignition Total Timing would continue to raise as I increased the Base Timing, until eventually I ran into my IAM dropping and a couple instances of -1.5 of Fine Learning Knock Correction.

As for the KCA Max table, basically everything starting at 1.40 Engine Load and up is between 4.92 and 5.27.
ammo0000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #7
idipskoalmint
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169716
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Albany, NY
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
WTF Tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammo0000
Isn't the Learned Ignition Timing and Fine Learning Knock Correction the two that show what the ECU is adding? For example, when I started off adjusting my timing, it was set at 11.29* on the base timing table for 2.5 Engine Load at 6400 RPMs. When I logged it, it was showing 18* Ignition Total Timing and 7.5* in the Learned Ignition Timing. The Fine Learning Knock Correction was at 0. I'm just using this as one example since I don't know how to post a spreadsheet. After several increases of 1* throughout the powerband, the Learned Ignition Timing dropped to 6 but no lower. The Ignition Total Timing would continue to raise as I increased the Base Timing, until eventually I ran into my IAM dropping and a couple instances of -1.5 of Fine Learning Knock Correction.

As for the KCA Max table, basically everything starting at 1.40 Engine Load and up is between 4.92 and 5.27.
Upload the log to Google Docs and set to public. Upload a screenshot to any picture site (e.g., Tinypic) and paste the forum code.

So KCA Max @ 6400/2.5 is lower than the 7.5° you see in your log?

Honestly, I never bother logging Base Timing / Learned Timing. All I really care about is Ignition Total Timing. Then again, I run a flat 8° KCA Max table.

Last edited by idipskoalmint; 01-28-2013 at 06:42 PM.
idipskoalmint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 06:47 PM   #8
ammo0000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175401
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Knob Noster, MO
Vehicle:
2018 Focus ST
White

Default

So after screwing around with it all day I finally figured it out. In RomRaider if you're at the Base Timing table, if you click 'View', then 'Table Properties', it breaks down exactly what is happening to get the Ignition Total Timing. Here's what it says, "This is the base level of timing. Total timing = base timing + knock correction advance + other timing compensations. Knock correction advance = (knock correction advance max map value * current advance multiplier) + feedback knock correction + fine knock correction."

So basically the Knock Correction Advance Max table(multiplied by the IAM) will always be added to the Base Timing table. I just thought that the KCA Max table was used for fine learning, not for rough corrections for when the IAM drops.

Thanks anyway for the help guys.
ammo0000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 06:53 PM   #9
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammo0000 View Post
So after screwing around with it all day I finally figured it out. In RomRaider if you're at the Base Timing table, if you click 'View', then 'Table Properties', it breaks down exactly what is happening to get the Ignition Total Timing. Here's what it says, "This is the base level of timing. Total timing = base timing + knock correction advance + other timing compensations. Knock correction advance = (knock correction advance max map value * current advance multiplier) + feedback knock correction + fine knock correction."

So basically the Knock Correction Advance Max table(multiplied by the IAM) will always be added to the Base Timing table. I just thought that the KCA Max table was used for fine learning, not for rough corrections for when the IAM drops.

Thanks anyway for the help guys.
Ohh, That's all you were asking? Look up subaru's knock stategy explained
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 08:48 PM   #10
idipskoalmint
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169716
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Albany, NY
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
WTF Tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammo0000
So after screwing around with it all day I finally figured it out. In RomRaider if you're at the Base Timing table, if you click 'View', then 'Table Properties', it breaks down exactly what is happening to get the Ignition Total Timing. Here's what it says, "This is the base level of timing. Total timing = base timing + knock correction advance + other timing compensations. Knock correction advance = (knock correction advance max map value * current advance multiplier) + feedback knock correction + fine knock correction."

So basically the Knock Correction Advance Max table(multiplied by the IAM) will always be added to the Base Timing table. I just thought that the KCA Max table was used for fine learning, not for rough corrections for when the IAM drops.

Thanks anyway for the help guys.
Like I mentioned in my last post, I wouldn't bother logging either timing parameter separate; Ignition Total Timing is what you're concerned with. Adding Base / Learned to the parameter list is just wasted bandwidth, unless you're looking for an issue specific to your compensation tables (since that's the only variable you wouldn't know from IAM / Load / RPM / FBKC / FLKC being logged in accordance, which typically always is).
idipskoalmint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.