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Old 12-08-2021, 08:35 PM   #101
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I'd take this with a grain of salt. I inquired with a dealer near me (non-Subaru) about any additional markups they had on their new vehicles, and they said they don't have any markups...except that all their cars get a $3300 dealer accessories package that you can't negotiate out of. So what they meant was "no market adjustment" except the market adjustment you pay in dealer accessories.

I placed an order for a BRZ back in Sept for $500 under MSRP for Dec delivery. I got a call from the store manager a couple weeks back to see if I was willing to give up my Dec delivery date and delay shipment for an additional discount (apparently someone else REALLY needed a new BRZ, and they were willing to pay a markup), so I agreed to have a new order for Apr '22 delivery for $2100 under MSRP (or $620 under dealer invoice). I also confirmed that they aren't adding any additional dealer accessories to the price. This isn't your ideal situation, but there are some dealerships out there willing to work with buyers. They may be few, but they're still out there.
Smart move. If there are any kinks it gives them time to sort it out and yi7 get a sweet discount on a hit car.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:57 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by benj182 View Post
I placed an order for a BRZ back in Sept for $500 under MSRP for Dec delivery. I got a call from the store manager a couple weeks back to see if I was willing to give up my Dec delivery date and delay shipment for an additional discount (apparently someone else REALLY needed a new BRZ, and they were willing to pay a markup), so I agreed to have a new order for Apr '22 delivery for $2100 under MSRP (or $620 under dealer invoice). I also confirmed that they aren't adding any additional dealer accessories to the price. This isn't your ideal situation, but there are some dealerships out there willing to work with buyers. They may be few, but they're still out there.
Sweet deal in todays market!

Our dealership that has typically given us great prices on new cars (and we've bought a bunch) would not take a penny off sticker
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Old 12-09-2021, 10:16 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by benj182 View Post
I'd take this with a grain of salt. I inquired with a dealer near me (non-Subaru) about any additional markups they had on their new vehicles, and they said they don't have any markups...except that all their cars get a $3300 dealer accessories package that you can't negotiate out of. So what they meant was "no market adjustment" except the market adjustment you pay in dealer accessories.

I placed an order for a BRZ back in Sept for $500 under MSRP for Dec delivery. I got a call from the store manager a couple weeks back to see if I was willing to give up my Dec delivery date and delay shipment for an additional discount (apparently someone else REALLY needed a new BRZ, and they were willing to pay a markup), so I agreed to have a new order for Apr '22 delivery for $2100 under MSRP (or $620 under dealer invoice). I also confirmed that they aren't adding any additional dealer accessories to the price. This isn't your ideal situation, but there are some dealerships out there willing to work with buyers. They may be few, but they're still out there.
Oh wow, that is awesome. I would have taken that deal in a heartbeat as well..
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Old 12-09-2021, 10:19 AM   #104
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Sweet deal in todays market!

Our dealership that has typically given us great prices on new cars (and we've bought a bunch) would not take a penny off sticker
The sticker price is the new friends and family discount. People are willing to pay way above the asking price so if I was in a market for a new car today and got it at MSRP, I would be extremely happy...And I bought my last two new cars way below invoice.
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Old 12-09-2021, 10:50 AM   #105
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if there's no markup on the sticker, as mentioned there will be non negotiable port installed accessories. if you're offering a trade, you'll also take a hit on your trade.

the dealer is going to get their nut one way or another.
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Old 12-15-2021, 01:17 PM   #106
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Old 12-26-2021, 11:27 PM   #107
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Has always been a bit tough getting my STI's and wrx's below invoice around here. ****ty time to be buying a new car and even ****tier that dealers are adding $10K ADL on BRZ's!
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Old 01-05-2022, 09:35 PM   #108
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Heard the BRZ brakes suck from someone who went to Thunderhill this weekend. But the person paid under MSRP for it...so win?
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Old 01-05-2022, 10:51 PM   #109
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Heard the BRZ brakes suck from someone who went to Thunderhill this weekend. But the person paid under MSRP for it...so win?
Change pads? Fluid? for track duty? I'd assume the brakes need those at least. Hoping there's a performance package again to get those Brembos.
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:05 PM   #110
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The brakes are fine for normal use, but like any car with normal brakes on the track it needs track pads/fluid.
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:34 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
Change pads? Fluid? for track duty? I'd assume the brakes need those at least. Hoping there's a performance package again to get those Brembos.
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
The brakes are fine for normal use, but like any car with normal brakes on the track it needs track pads/fluid.
Quote:
And having soaked in the 2022 Subaru BRZ, driving it to and around Connecticut's Lime Rock Park road circuit and its new autocross track, plus stints at the test track and on Michigan's back roads, we say hallelujah. This twin has returned to scratch an itch that enthusiasts never tire of scratching, and it's better than ever.

Funny not one review echos that sentiment. Funny.

And this car is not a normal car. It's been pumped up heavily with balance woo and crap. I've got 6 track days on stock GTI brakes without any issue.
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Old 01-06-2022, 04:41 AM   #112
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The brakes are fine for normal use, but like any car with normal brakes on the track it needs track pads/fluid.
Never owned anything that I tracked that didnít need track prep. Even all the literbikes Iíve owned over the years needed better brake fluid (fond of Motul 5.1), better pads, SS lines, aftermarket master cylinder, and something to address cooling (water wetter and sometimes radiator fins). Depends on the track, the temps, etc. Usually do some overkill here for margin of error, IE 100 degree days and 90+ humidity.
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Old 01-06-2022, 09:09 AM   #113
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Some youtuber tracked his just-delivered BRZ and the brakes went to the floor after a couple laps. Tsuchiya did multiple laps (never more than 2 or 3 on ~1.5 min tracks) in every flavor of twin on a few occasions and never mentioned the brakes kicking the bucket. The stock-ass bakes could get you around a track quick for a while I'm sure, but won't cut it over 8/10 for long, or if you're just ham-fisted with the car.
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Old 01-06-2022, 09:45 AM   #114
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And this car is not a normal car. It's been pumped up heavily with balance woo and crap. I've got 6 track days on stock GTI brakes without any issue.
I think brake behavior on track is also heavily dependent on the driver.
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Old 01-06-2022, 10:08 AM   #115
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parts.subaru.com show the same part numbers for calipers and brake rotors as previous gen (not including the PP).

so the brake experience should be unchanged.

I didn't look up the master cylinder, or other components to see if these are unchanged though.

Last edited by samagon; 01-06-2022 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 01-06-2022, 10:30 AM   #116
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Wow, 45% markup, and on an auto no less - I don't know what dealer that is, but I'd never do business with them, and would instruct everyone I knew to avoid them as well. Probably write a letter to SOA while I was at it, in hopes that it would affect their WRX/STi/BRZ allocations.
I bet if you owned this car and someone offered you 45% more than MSRP you wouldn't complain about selling it...
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Old 01-06-2022, 11:08 AM   #117
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The comment about the brakes had nothing to do with overcooking the fluid or pads or ham fisted time attacking. The brakes are not strong enough to bring the BRZ down from higher speeds at the beginning of the session. So the braking zones are extended and you are coasting out of the high speed sections and into the corner. Add tracks like Thunderhill into it with elevation and off camber stuff, and it becomes a battle of pucker. Which is not fun. A track day should be fun and this car is supposed to be developed to be an affordable weekend track toy for beginners and novices of all skill levels.

I'm bummed that Toyota didn't address the brakes given the car gained more speed and a new platform. So it looks like they gave it the 11 inch rotor setup all around.

THEY PHONED IT IN
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Old 01-06-2022, 11:31 AM   #118
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The comment about the brakes had nothing to do with overcooking the fluid or pads or ham fisted time attacking. The brakes are not strong enough to bring the BRZ down from higher speeds at the beginning of the session. So the braking zones are extended and you are coasting out of the high speed sections and into the corner. Add tracks like Thunderhill into it with elevation and off camber stuff, and it becomes a battle of pucker. Which is not fun. A track day should be fun and this car is supposed to be developed to be an affordable weekend track toy for beginners and novices of all skill levels.

I'm bummed that Toyota didn't address the brakes given the car gained more speed and a new platform. So it looks like they gave it the 11 inch rotor setup all around.

THEY PHONED IT IN
Change pads, fluids, lines and call it a day
or
wait for inevitable Brembo brake model meant for such abuse.

Brakes are like tires. If I bought a Premium to save weight, I wouldn't show up to track day on the 17" Prius tires complaining about the tires suck. The reviews that actually put track duty into the vehicles said the brakes don't hold up. That's expected since the brakes are the same as the outgoing model.
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Old 01-06-2022, 11:32 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
I think brake behavior on track is also heavily dependent on the driver.

It is. Big difference from pushing corners, taking the slower lap times at the same time to save the brakes vs. the full send. Full send every lap, the car will need BBK, lines, fluid, and $ spent for that. Too many don't want to track prep, chintz, and hilarity ensues.
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Old 01-06-2022, 11:49 AM   #120
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I would skip the "street" Brembos and jump directly to the Essex / AP Racing calipers, rotors and pad.
It's spendy but well worth it in the long run.
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Old 01-06-2022, 12:56 PM   #121
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Pandem widebody kit on a 2022 BRZ.

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Old 01-06-2022, 01:07 PM   #122
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Thunderhill east needs serious brakes while Thunderhill west does not.

Different tracks have different braking points plus different drivers use brakes differently. So yes, brakes are very much dependent on the driver and location.

Some cars have track-worthy brakes from the factory (like the 2016 Chevy SS I had, so did the 2018 Type-RA, both had zero brake issues stock on the track) but most don't especially if you drive the car like a madman. I usually don't drive that hard with braking zones, I mean I'm not wheel to wheel racing its just for fun. I have overheated my tires on the track though thats really where I push it is in the corners.

From the videos I've seen of the new BRZ at Thunderhill, its carrying WAY more speed than it used to and putting up faster times that the previous model by quite a bit. But with the brakes being unchanged, that can be an issue if you want to be super aggressive.

Figure out what kind of driver you are in a track day (ask someone probably, thats something hard to judge by yourself) and you can then decide what you need to do with your brakes on any car really.
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Old 01-06-2022, 01:46 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Thunderhill east needs serious brakes while Thunderhill west does not.

Different tracks have different braking points plus different drivers use brakes differently. So yes, brakes are very much dependent on the driver and location.

Some cars have track-worthy brakes from the factory (like the 2016 Chevy SS I had, so did the 2018 Type-RA, both had zero brake issues stock on the track) but most don't especially if you drive the car like a madman. I usually don't drive that hard with braking zones, I mean I'm not wheel to wheel racing its just for fun. I have overheated my tires on the track though thats really where I push it is in the corners.

From the videos I've seen of the new BRZ at Thunderhill, its carrying WAY more speed than it used to and putting up faster times that the previous model by quite a bit. But with the brakes being unchanged, that can be an issue if you want to be super aggressive.

Figure out what kind of driver you are in a track day (ask someone probably, thats something hard to judge by yourself) and you can then decide what you need to do with your brakes on any car really.
No not really. Hauling a car down from 100+ MPH repeatedly throughout the day isn't necessarily track dependent. Around PIR there are two straights where our stock GTI gets up to 110-15 mph and then hard on the brakes. They've survived untouched after multiple 90 degree track events with 3 and 4 sessions and driving to and from track. Sitting in the garage ready to go pick up the kids from school. Awesome brakes. The car's miles are mostly track days. VW didn't phone in the single most important element of a high performance car. Which is what Toyotaru is calling the BRZ/GR86.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
Change pads, fluids, lines and call it a day
or
wait for inevitable Brembo brake model meant for such abuse.

Brakes are like tires. If I bought a Premium to save weight, I wouldn't show up to track day on the 17" Prius tires complaining about the tires suck. The reviews that actually put track duty into the vehicles said the brakes don't hold up. That's expected since the brakes are the same as the outgoing model.
You sound like you know what you're talking about.



And they go on to add:

Quote:
Retuned, Track-Tested Suspension

Subaru engineers re-tuned the MacPherson struts in front and the multi-link rear suspension to improve the famed BRZ cornering even further, including widening the rear track for improved stability and reinforcing the suspension mounting points for increased performance.


Standard on: All models
Here's from the press release:

Quote:
For track driving, the standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) traction and stability system offers the driver five different settings. The system has been redesigned to allow more input from the driver before it activates the traction system. The system can be turned completely off to put the driver in full control.
Taken as a whole, nobody would assume the brakes suck and you cannot take it on track without changing out the brakes. After all, they stated the brakes HAVE been upgraded. And since they bothered calibrating stability control and suspension for track use, they likely did the same for the braking system. Right? I mean it is only THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF TRACK DRIVING.

Yesterday I quoted a brand new article where they spent time driving hard around multiple venues like Lime Rock and in it not one word about the brakes being complete **** or even that they are carryover from the previous generation and should be immediately tended to. Nah, it was a glowing review like nothing was amiss with taking the car to task whenever and wherever. If the brakes fail after 5 minutes, I would think that is mentioned as a low. Here's what's mentioned as the low points of the BRZ:

Quote:
LOWS: A tad buzzy at high revs, miniscule back seat, basic interior finishes.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...aru-brz-drive/


If I didn't bring this up, nobody would have known. Which is the point of criticism of products on public forums rather than shilling and blindly defending crap based on feels.
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Old 01-06-2022, 01:57 PM   #124
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No not really. Hauling a car down from 100+ MPH repeatedly throughout the day isn't necessarily track dependent.
Yes it is because as with Thill West vs East, West doesn't have any 100mph+ sections :P

Some tracks have long straights going into hard hairpins, others just have lots of corners and much lower speeds. Thill East you can hit 120mph with some cars while west maybe 80-90mph. There is only one spot on West that counts as a hard braking zone, the rest of the lap you barely touch them and they stay cool. On East there are three high speed braking points coming out of straights, all of which you can be in trouble if your brakes fail and I've seen cars go off the track there with stock brakes while west I've never seen people go off due to brakes.
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Old 01-06-2022, 02:17 PM   #125
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Funny not one review echos that sentiment. Funny.
Those cars at the track day junkets are definitely wearing better pads and fluids. They get beat on all day at the track by journalists, so they're prepped ahead of time. Have you seen some independent track tests yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
And this car is not a normal car. It's been pumped up heavily with balance woo and crap. I've got 6 track days on stock GTI brakes without any issue.
You've got the Performance Package, though, right? You've got 340mm front discs. Try it with the normal car with its 312mm discs.

The BRZ has 293mm discs. The BRZ Performance Package had 326mm front rotors (partsbin WRX STI stuff).

Your car is a very rare exception.. you shouldn't use it as a benchmark.

You can't track ad copy. A marketing intern that writes "upgraded high performance brakes" on an e-brochure isn't going to be there to fan your brakes at the end of the front straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I would skip the "street" Brembos and jump directly to the Essex / AP Racing calipers, rotors and pad.
It's spendy but well worth it in the long run.
This. Subaru puts the lower end two piece Brembos on the Performance Packages. They really don't do much other than make pad swapping easier. The AP Racing calipers + 2-piece rotors are definitely better trackday kit for the same price as the Performance Packages (~$2k). or you could spend a little more ($3.5k) and get some monoblock calipers.
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