Subaru AWD vs. The Industry *Video*

[rs2.5-3.0]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

Because this was all about bread and butter cars vs. direct competition. And by the way... the Pilot/MDX couldn't be used in the maneuvering excercises because it was tipsy.


Subaru Compared Honda's direct competitor to the Forester. The Forester used in the comparison was an Automatic X model... Subaru's weakest AWD.... you know the one that has a 90/10 FWD bias



What's the closest Volume AWD Sedan that competes with the LGT? *ding... the Passat. The point of the training was to test AWD vs other drivetrains... the cars that compete with Subaru. Why buy an AWD car over a RWD one? Why buy an AWD car over a FWD car? What makes Subaru's AWD different from its competitors. That only makes sense. There was a track course with a Honda Accord V6 (Car and Driver picked it as a better sports sedan alternative) against an LGT. The LGT mopped the floor with the Accord.


It is meant for salesmen. You wouldn't have seen this if it wasn't for me. And the salesmen who will see it have already experienced it. It's not something they are seeing for the first time.

I've always been very honest on this site. And I'll give praise to other manufacturers when it's due. There was no funny business involved here. There's a saying... "You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face." Well some of you wouldn't HAVE the truth even when it's staring you in the face. That's called ignorance.

I agree with you. SoD. This is getting very frustrating reading all of these repetitive posts and mindless arguing. Thanks for the vid. I appreciate the fact that you would take the time to share it with the community.

It's sad that many of the nabisco users waste their time ranting and raving like a 4 year old. Focus on the results people... and get a life, too.

-Brian

</IMG>

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[rexspeedworthy]

Subaru owners are a bunch of crybaby snooty know it alls.

Except for me, and believe me I know.

For real though, i read two pages and wah wah wah.
Every new car they bring out...wah wah wah.

Bunch of babies

[rs2.5-3.0]

elaborate?

[vica153]

I dont see any car could possibly go across the rollers once stopped on them. The only thing giving forward force would be the rolling resistance of the rollers. If they are decent free spinning rollers, they are not going to have very much resistance at all and the more force you apply they are just going to spin faster. Seems wierd to me.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by REXSPEEDWORTHY

Subaru owners are a bunch of crybaby snooty know it alls.

Yeah.. like this one.

(j/k )

[crazyhorse]

What they did was use a plate controlled by hydraulics to lock up various combinations of the rollers. To test the power transfer to the rear wheels you'd put the front wheels up on the rollers with them free spinning then try to get up on the ramp... Once the car is up there you could test the LTD slip, etc by using the combinations of rollers. Hope that makes sense

[Freon]

Chalk up another vote for calling the video biased. Seriously, the roller test, the B9 clearly got a running start the others did not. We're not all imagining this. I thought the same yesterday when I watched the video and before I read anyone else's comments.

The accident avoidance tests seemed to show different lines. The B9 didn't get back into the lane nearly as fast. It's pretty easy to make a car look less stable than it is by picking and choosing how to edit the video (which passes to include), and having the driver flick the controls.

I was fairly convinced on the hill climb. But that's about it. Who is going to climb a hill like that in their Tribeca? If its lucky it might go down a gravel road a few times in its life.

I do think Subaru has a great powertrain system, but this video just sets off alarms in my head.

[mpaone]

Well I spoke with a personal friend last night in an "off the record" conversation and he still said there was no contest...especially in the wet handling and off road capabilities.

Subaru pretty much dominated.

-Mike.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by Beaverboy

The video just comes across very stacked and it makes an intelligent prospective buyer very wary of how the information is presented. Overall, I think the presentation is very poorly done. The camera angles are right on, the tests are very decent.. but hearing the driver's say something during and after the tests, or (at the very least) some engine noise during the ramp/hillclimb part would really make it all easier to digest.

That's the point...this video is not for customers it's a wrap up video for the people who attended the training.

Originally Posted by outback_97

SoDealer:
Will dealers have this available for viewing on DVD, the quality of the web videos is not as good as I'd like to see?
Steve

Yes... and it will be DVD quality... I had to compress the file down to a certain size to host it on the net.

Originally Posted by Freon

Chalk up another vote for calling the video biased. Seriously, the roller test, the B9 clearly got a running start the others did not. We're not all imagining this. I thought the same yesterday when I watched the video and before I read anyone else's comments.

The accident avoidance tests seemed to show different lines. The B9 didn't get back into the lane nearly as fast. It's pretty easy to make a car look less stable than it is by picking and choosing how to edit the video (which passes to include), and having the driver flick the controls.

I was fairly convinced on the hill climb. But that's about it. Who is going to climb a hill like that in their Tribeca? If its lucky it might go down a gravel road a few times in its life.

I do think Subaru has a great powertrain system, but this video just sets off alarms in my head.

for the umpteenth billion time... these tests were performed by thousands of people with same results. The DVD is a compilation of one example of certain tests... there were tests performed that aren't even shown in the video.

[bakadayo]

Maybe the problem is that the video is an edited version and not a more comprehensive showcase of "fairness". As we all know, editing can make anything look good.

I definitely would've like to have seen Honda's SH-AWD in those tests though.

[dusty]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

That's the point...this video is not for customers it's a wrap up video for the people who attended the training.


Yes... and it will be DVD quality... I had to compress the file down to a certain size to host it on the net.




for the umpteenth billion time... these tests were performed by thousands of people with same results. The DVD is a compilation of one example of certain tests... there were tests performed that aren't even shown in the video.

Thanks for the video. Sodealer, it is hard to please everyone. Perception is realty, even though you are telling the truth.cheers

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by secorsubaru

I was at this event just last week.They could do the dvd with no narration at all and it would still work,Subaru is the best system,period.......and there was no bias involved,just facts.......Brian

If Subaru sponsored the event, it was marketing. I love my Subarus, will probably never buy another type car again and I can afford pretty much anything I want within reason. But if I here one more " it was unbiased and it a documentary" I'm going to vomit in a Fedex envelope and over night in to whoever says it.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by silver arrow

If Subaru sponsored the event, it was marketing. I love my Subarus, will probably never buy another type car again and I can afford pretty much anything I want within reason. But if I here one more " it was unbiased and it a documentary" I'm going to vomit in a Fedex envelope and over night in to whoever says it.

pm me for my address. The comments are biased... the results are not.

[Freon]

It's pretty easy to edit thousands of recordings to include the ones you want. I imagine given thousands of clips of those cars I could edit it together and make my own voice-over to make that XC90 look like a rally champ. The video makes no attempt to present the information even "as if" it wasn't biased. It's so bad I consider it insulting to the viewer. I'm amazed anyone would watch that video and consider it even remotely conclusive or convincing. It just reeks of bias.

I'm not saying I don't think Subaru makes a great AWD system, or that it is or isn't better than anyone else's systems. It's just the presentation of the information does nothing to convince me. I generally reject information when it is presented in such a poor manner as is this video.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by Freon

I'm not saying I don't think Subaru makes a great AWD system, or that it is or isn't better than anyone else's systems. It's just the presentation of the information does nothing to convince me. I generally reject information when it is presented in such a poor manner as is this video.

It's not meant to convince you... it's meant to back up what the salespersons learned on their own. People didn't drive these cars to make a video... a video was made of people driving the cars. The results were the same... all day long, every day, every week.

[fireball_jones]

Originally Posted by Freon

I'm not saying I don't think Subaru makes a great AWD system, or that it is or isn't better than anyone else's systems. It's just the presentation of the information does nothing to convince me. I generally reject information when it is presented in such a poor manner as is this video.

So you reject everything? What could possibly convince you behind video evidence, outside of doing the test yourself?

I get the feeling there are a lot of "man never landed on the moon" people in this thread. Seriously, AWD and skid control systems are not that complicated. What makes them complicated is a)packaging and b)price. For the cars in their price/size range, Subaru does the best.

I shouldn't even say price, a Forester/B9 would crush a Cayenne/X5 on any of these tests. Well... maybe not road handling

[happasaiyan]

Originally Posted by fireball_jones

So you reject everything? What could possibly convince you behind video evidence, outside of doing the test yourself?

I get the feeling there are a lot of "man never landed on the moon" people in this thread. Seriously, AWD and skid control systems are not that complicated. What makes them complicated is a)packaging and b)price. For the cars in their price/size range, Subaru does the best.

I shouldn't even say price, a Forester/B9 would crush a Cayenne/X5 on any of these tests. Well... maybe not road handling

[ot]...wait, you actually believe man has been on the moon? well, then i guess i need to speak a little bit slower. [/ot]

[happasaiyan]

Originally Posted by Freon

It's pretty easy to edit thousands of recordings to include the ones you want. I imagine given thousands of clips of those cars I could edit it together and make my own voice-over to make that XC90 look like a rally champ. The video makes no attempt to present the information even "as if" it wasn't biased. It's so bad I consider it insulting to the viewer. I'm amazed anyone would watch that video and consider it even remotely conclusive or convincing. It just reeks of bias.

I'm not saying I don't think Subaru makes a great AWD system, or that it is or isn't better than anyone else's systems. It's just the presentation of the information does nothing to convince me. I generally reject information when it is presented in such a poor manner as is this video.

freon, you and i are on the same page, bud.

[BryanH]

I am still waiting for the answer to a couple simple questions.

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

pm me for my address. The comments are biased... the results are not.

That's it, overnight vomit in a bag for you.

[crazyhorse]

Bryan: No idea on the tire pressures... The group that puts on these events is automotiveevents.com They do a lot of similar things for various other makes of cars. A guy from the board here actually works with them and I do know that they check the tire pressures rather often to make sure they're within factory spec. They don't do it for "accuracy" or anything like that.... it just gets expensive to replace tires if they wear too fast. Oh and on the hill climb thing... even with your foot to the floor the honda still struggles. The Murano would hesitate and then make it over ok. Rav4 had similar issues with the pedal floored. They made us stop at the top so a lot of people were probably a lil scared to floor it.

[BryanH]

The tire pressure matters...it will make the handling characteristics of the Volvo change completely. But to honest I am not a big fan of the tire choice on the car either. Going with a car tire and NOT a light truck tire would probably have been a better idea. If you can't figure out why these tidbits matter please reference the Ford Explorer.

And did you mean to say the honda or the Volvo struggles?

And did they turn off the traction control? Can you on the 06?

I have gone up some retarded hills camping in the wifes 04 XC70 that were at least as steep as the hill in your demo without issue. I wonder if there is a change in the traction control strategy between 04 and the 06 you tested? Cause I know that unless you turn off the traction control on my wifes car it will have all sorts of issues on grades.

As for the Rav4...it is a very dissapointing vehicle. I laugh everytime I see one on the road.

The Murano is equally as hysterical.

Now I just want to know who SoDealer works for...I simply do not believe he isn't a dealer or Subaru employee.

[crazyhorse]

Oh I have no doubts that tire pressure matters... did you miss the bit about me autocrossing?

We left the traction control on in all the driving I did... We never took the Volvo up the steep grade while I was there. All my statements are based on my personal experience there and not the video. That traction control was the worst thing I've ever experienced on the wet course. It pretty much fights you when you try to make the correct inputs.

[crazyhorse]

friggen nasioc... double post

[BryanH]

try an MK IV VW GTI...or any 00-04 VW...sometime. You will get out of the car and pull your hair out. The traction control is the most intrusive system I have ever driven. Part of my startup procedure was to hit the traction control OFF button after I turned the key on.

But the Volvo's is pretty intrusive. I usually turn it off.

I also recently replaced the tires with a wider and lower profile tire and the car is MUCH better. It still isn't going to handle like my WRX but it will whoop the crap out of the XC70 in that video. Michelin Pilot Sports will do that for a car.