Both Head Gaskets leaking on a 2001 :(

2001LegactGT · 05-24-2002, 09:40 AM

I have been smeeling a real sweet smell when driving lately and the last few days I have noticed coolant leaking on the ground. I just got news from the dealer saying that both my head gaskets are leaking. WOW I didn't see that coming. On a 2001 with 29,000 miles. I think this is absolutely pathetic. All I have to say is I better not have to pay a dime here!

There gonna get me a rental car - AKA probably a cavalier.

I must say I am pretty upset and disappointed though but not much I can do now. Ah well any similiar stories on a 2000+?

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Commuter · 05-24-2002, 05:14 PM

I've heard of this happening. My dealer has dealt with head gaskets on some of the Phase II 2.5L SOHC engines. Usually leaks as opposed to the blown gasket / overheating etc problems of the Phase I engine (don't talk to me about THAT one...).

Count yourself lucky that you are under warranty.

Ask them to take note if any of the head bolts are "loose". My dealer said that they have found that some of the bolts seem to unscrew with almost no break away torque.

I have seen a head bolt torquing procedure that makes me wonder a little. (Tightening down in stages, then BACKING OFF a couple of times?? Then final tightening.) Apparently, Subaru revised the torquing procedure at some point. (I don't know for which engine or whether it was both or whether the procedure I saw was up to date...) One theory I've heard (from a knowledgable source) is that the "backing off" uncompresses the gasket and this is NOT a good thing. In my day, I never heard of such a procedure. Something to do with 'stretch bolts' and Aluminum blocks, etc. I'm told... I don't understand it.

I saw a posting (on another board) recently where Toyota had similar problems with their Celica's some years ago. Some fairly in depth analysis suggested that insufficient torque and/or a poor torquing procedure was contributing to the problem. I have to wonder if Subaru is suffering the same thing.

Good luck.

tahrndt · 05-24-2002, 11:30 PM

That sounds really sucky

At least you caught it under warrenty. Try hasseling them into giving you a WRX for a loaner car then it wouldn't be a complete bummer.
Tim

RSKwannabe · 05-25-2002, 08:37 AM

oh no....
I have a 2001GT with 16K miles. Hope I do not ave to worry about this poblem too. But thanks for the head's up. I will keep a watch out for this.

Commuter, the torquing and retorquing of fasteners is to assure the proper stretch of the bolt which is actually how the bolts are ensured of gaining their highest fastening strength. The procedure is called cycling. I did not know about it either until my machinest told me about it to make sure I did it properly when putting my engine back together.

There is a good write up on the ARP website.

Commuter · 05-25-2002, 11:08 AM

RSKwannabe,

Can you post a link to that site please? I'd like to read up on it.

Anyone have (or can point me to) Subaru's current head bolt torquing procedure for the 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine?

Thanks.

RSKwannabe · 05-25-2002, 01:53 PM

The main ARP site is:

http://www.arp-bolts.com

There is a lot of information about fasteners in general here (i.e. definitions, materials, etc.)

The page where I got the info on cycling is from the catalog (I think) which can be downloaded from here:

http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/catalog/catalog.html

Good luck.

nitrohuffer · 05-25-2002, 11:08 PM

Beat, I've got a 2001 with 32,000 hard miles (auto-x's). I'm running clean as a whistle though.

2001LegactGT · 05-26-2002, 11:39 AM

So i went up to talk to the dealer and see what was going on and I walked over to my car - it was a very sad sight to see with no engine in it and my engine pieces all over the floor. I saw the gaskets and they started to peel and well after that its shot. They think it was heat like something malfunctioned. I dunno exactly and I don't think they do either LOL. Either way they are getting new gaskets in on Tuesday they hope and they will reassemble it and check for anything else that could have gotten messed up.
This really makes me wonder if I should keep the car much longer. I didn't plan on keeping it past 40k but now I wonder if I should go sooner. If i was going to keep it I CERTAINLY would get that 60k warranty.

My other problem is I don't know what car I would replace it with. I have only ever driven AWD Legacy' I can't drive anything else haha. I have had a 92,2000,2001 so I cant see buying another Legacy GT since its just the same car. If there was a bigger engine I would buy for sure. Ah well I dunno

Oh I told them to give me a WRX but they laughed and I ended up with a Grand AM SE (aka **** Edition)

Thanks for your input guys

05-24-2002, 09:40 AM	#1
2001LegactGT Scooby Newbie Member#: 5089 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Willoughby, OH Vehicle: 2002 Audi A4 Denim Blue	Both Head Gaskets leaking on a 2001 :( I have been smeeling a real sweet smell when driving lately and the last few days I have noticed coolant leaking on the ground. I just got news from the dealer saying that both my head gaskets are leaking. WOW I didn't see that coming. On a 2001 with 29,000 miles. I think this is absolutely pathetic. All I have to say is I better not have to pay a dime here! There gonna get me a rental car - AKA probably a cavalier. I must say I am pretty upset and disappointed though but not much I can do now. Ah well any similiar stories on a 2000+? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

05-25-2002, 11:08 AM	#5
Commuter Scooby Newbie Member#: 9432 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Brampton Ontario Canada Vehicle: 1997 Outback Red	ARP site? RSKwannabe, Can you post a link to that site please? I'd like to read up on it. Anyone have (or can point me to) Subaru's current head bolt torquing procedure for the 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine? Thanks.

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05-24-2002, 05:14 PM	#2
Commuter Scooby Newbie Member#: 9432 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Brampton Ontario Canada Vehicle: 1997 Outback Red	I've heard of this happening. My dealer has dealt with head gaskets on some of the Phase II 2.5L SOHC engines. Usually leaks as opposed to the blown gasket / overheating etc problems of the Phase I engine (don't talk to me about THAT one...). Count yourself lucky that you are under warranty. Ask them to take note if any of the head bolts are "loose". My dealer said that they have found that some of the bolts seem to unscrew with almost no break away torque. I have seen a head bolt torquing procedure that makes me wonder a little. (Tightening down in stages, then BACKING OFF a couple of times?? Then final tightening.) Apparently, Subaru revised the torquing procedure at some point. (I don't know for which engine or whether it was both or whether the procedure I saw was up to date...) One theory I've heard (from a knowledgable source) is that the "backing off" uncompresses the gasket and this is NOT a good thing. In my day, I never heard of such a procedure. Something to do with 'stretch bolts' and Aluminum blocks, etc. I'm told... I don't understand it. I saw a posting (on another board) recently where Toyota had similar problems with their Celica's some years ago. Some fairly in depth analysis suggested that insufficient torque and/or a poor torquing procedure was contributing to the problem. I have to wonder if Subaru is suffering the same thing. Good luck.

05-24-2002, 11:30 PM	#3
tahrndt Scooby Specialist Member#: 1315 Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN. U.S.A.	That sounds really sucky At least you caught it under warrenty. Try hasseling them into giving you a WRX for a loaner car then it wouldn't be a complete bummer. Tim

05-25-2002, 08:37 AM	#4
RSKwannabe Scooby Newbie Member#: 15819 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hollywood, MD Vehicle: 2001 LEGACY GT Black	oh no.... I have a 2001GT with 16K miles. Hope I do not ave to worry about this poblem too. But thanks for the head's up. I will keep a watch out for this. Commuter, the torquing and retorquing of fasteners is to assure the proper stretch of the bolt which is actually how the bolts are ensured of gaining their highest fastening strength. The procedure is called cycling. I did not know about it either until my machinest told me about it to make sure I did it properly when putting my engine back together. There is a good write up on the ARP website.

05-25-2002, 01:53 PM	#6
RSKwannabe Scooby Newbie Member#: 15819 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hollywood, MD Vehicle: 2001 LEGACY GT Black	The main ARP site is: http://www.arp-bolts.com There is a lot of information about fasteners in general here (i.e. definitions, materials, etc.) The page where I got the info on cycling is from the catalog (I think) which can be downloaded from here: http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/catalog/catalog.html Good luck.

05-25-2002, 11:08 PM	#7
nitrohuffer Scooby Specialist Member#: 6982 Join Date: May 2001 Location: . Vehicle: 2001 Legover 04 forester xt	Beat, I've got a 2001 with 32,000 hard miles (auto-x's). I'm running clean as a whistle though.

05-26-2002, 11:39 AM	#8
2001LegactGT Scooby Newbie Member#: 5089 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Willoughby, OH Vehicle: 2002 Audi A4 Denim Blue	So i went up to talk to the dealer and see what was going on and I walked over to my car - it was a very sad sight to see with no engine in it and my engine pieces all over the floor. I saw the gaskets and they started to peel and well after that its shot. They think it was heat like something malfunctioned. I dunno exactly and I don't think they do either LOL. Either way they are getting new gaskets in on Tuesday they hope and they will reassemble it and check for anything else that could have gotten messed up. This really makes me wonder if I should keep the car much longer. I didn't plan on keeping it past 40k but now I wonder if I should go sooner. If i was going to keep it I CERTAINLY would get that 60k warranty. My other problem is I don't know what car I would replace it with. I have only ever driven AWD Legacy' I can't drive anything else haha. I have had a 92,2000,2001 so I cant see buying another Legacy GT since its just the same car. If there was a bigger engine I would buy for sure. Ah well I dunno Oh I told them to give me a WRX but they laughed and I ended up with a Grand AM SE (aka **** Edition) Thanks for your input guys