real world comparison STI shifter w/bushings against Kartboy Shifter and bushings

[SCRAPPYDO]

Well first since I had a 2000 RS coupe that met an untimely end, and now I have a 2001 RS coupe that is at the moment 'unharmed', I can definitely tell you that I can make a definitive comparison.

First both cars had STI motor and engine mounts, I wont get into how great these make the car feel, its already been preached about, and yes they are still that good.

for those who might not know, the STI shifter is the complete linkage bought from either a dealer or a few selected vendors. Its remakebly similar to the stock linkage. In fact its exaclty like the stock linkage with the notable exception of the shifter itself. The STI unit with its heafty price does not come with a solid shifter bushing (aka CUSCO or Kartboy) unless you buy it from ISR or other vendor that sells them as a package. But for the 300+ clams you pay for the shifter you would think it would come with it. Installtion will take a while since you must remove the most of the console and get under the car as well. Basically a pain.

The Kartboy shifter is the shifter itself only, and uses the stock linkage (sounds familiar huh?). You can purchase the Kartboy shifter bushings at the same time as the shifter for less than half of the STI unit. Installation took me at the most 10 minutes in my garage. Its that easy!

Well I am sure you want to know how they feel and drive. First let me say what is being compared. The cars are identicle as previously stated. Both cars had STI motor and transmission mounts (again, they are that good). The STI shifter had CUSCO shifter bushings and the Kartboy shifter used Kartboy shifter bushings.

Driving Impressions:

STI - The STI unit with bushings is a relatively tight package. The throw is substacially reduced from the stock shifter and the addition of the CUSCO bushings made the 'clunck', or definite end to each throw, much improved over stock. The shifting is relatively light, with a marginally increased shifting effort that to me adds to the enjoyment of shifting. Its nothing that you will even notice as compared to the solid feel of each throw. I noticed that the shifter would rub in first gear on the metal retaining ring that holds the rubber boot on. I needed to take off the ring and do some MINOR grinding to make it fit, but nothing to worry over. The STI shifter placed the shifter in the same location and height as the stock one. The reach is good as the range of the shifter gate. At times getting into reverse was a tad difficult, but putting it into first gear would get things 'lined up' and it would pop in. All in all its a good shifter that will make driving pleasureable.

Kartboy - First thing to notice is that the Kartboy shifter bushings are much harder than the CUSCO units. They fit tighter on the 'rod' that sticks out of the tranny. This results in a very definite 'cluck' or end of throw on the shifts that I found very appealing and is at least as good as the STI unit if not better. The throws of the shifter are shorter than the STI unit and seem to feel more definite and the slop in gear is reduces as well. The shifter feels solid with a definte gate to each shift. The Kartboy requires more effort to shift, but again, it adds pleasure to the driving experience as it makes the driver feel more connected to the mechanics of the car, something drivers tend to favor. If you love the liquid numb feeling of a VW shifter, this shifter would be a sharp contrast. Its mechanical and definite while still allowing each gear to simply 'grab' the shifter in place. You KNOW when you are in gear with a Kartboy, its that good. The placement in the car is in the same location as the stock shifter but sits lower, again it has a definte 'drivers only' look to it. It has already been beat to death on this board, but the price, oh my, the price. For the money, you simply can not go wrong with this shifter. Its simple design is effective
and purposeful, and for roughly 135 bucks for the shifter and the bushings, combined with 1 hour of your time you will have a setup that is extremely pleasureable.

I choose Kartboy.

I hope if anybody was tilting back and forth on what to buy, this helped. I just wanted to show you a contrast on two exaclty the same cars with two totally different shifter.

Stay tuned for my KYB/AGX/Eibach vs. Prodrive WR suspension comparo!

SCRAPPYDO

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[JGard]

good, i can't wait for the KYB/AGX review, i'm about to get some of those

as for the shifter, i have an STi replica, which is just a stick, and i compared it to a kartboy with bushings. I thought the STi replica was much tighter, and had shorter throws. The only difference was that the Kartboy shifter was physically shorter...as in about 6 inches to 8.

[CBLOCK]

I wonder how the feel would be if both had the same bushings. To me, that would be a more accurate comparison of shifters. This has two variables...the shifter and the bushings.

However, it this is still good info..I hope others comment.

--Chris

[joostin420]

the STI Replica has bearings doesnt it, which is better: bearings or bushings?

also, by length, does the stock shift knob and boot fit perfectly on the Replica?

thanx,

justin

[JGard]

everything fits fine from the stock knob and boot onto the STi replica, yeah...

[Peaty]

I installed the Kartboy shifter in an STi setup not too long ago. I have pics of the 3 shifters side by side Kartboy, Sti and Stock as well as the bushings STi, Kartboy and Stock. Anyone wanting the pics let me know I can send them direct. In a nutshell, the STi and stock bushings are essentially the same, The Sti shifter is just about the same height as the stock one but the fulcrum point (below where the bolt goes through) is longer on the STi. The Kartboy shifter is much shorter height wise but about the same as the Sti when it comes to the fulcrum action. The kartboy bushings are considerably harder and 2 pc not 1 like both the STi and OEM ones. It's easier to just look at the pictures. The pics will eventually end up on the AZscooby site, Aaron 's been busy though.

Peaty

PS my impression after driving my car with the Kartboy setup and then the STi linkage with the kartboy shifter and bushing was no actual difference. Maybe it was just me...

[Catfish]

I've just ordered a Kartboy as an early X-mas present for myself. I tried it out on another members car, and really liked it. And as it was mentioned, for the price you can almost buy 3 STi units.

As far as bushings vs. bearings for shifters, my feeling is that the bearings are really overkill. There is very little rotation involved in shifting, and the load the bushings endure is not enough to warrant a fancy bearing IMO. The only benefit would be that the bearing could sit very tightly against the shaft while still providing near friction free motion, whereas if the bushing was held on the shaft with the same tolerance, it would provide more resistance. Even so, I would still consider the difference minimal at best, and hardly worth the extra cost.

Of course I haven't actually tried a bushing vs. a bearing in a Subaru, so I won't say my opinion is the absolute final word in the comparsion. Maybe someone else who has directly compared the two can provide some real world data.

Dave
'00 Subaru 2.5RS Sedan
'00 VW Passat GLS 4Motion
'72 Datsun 240Z

[SCRAPPYDO]

Peaty, you did not notice a differnce because there is no difference to notice.

The stock linkage and the Kartboy shifter vs. the STI linkage with the Kartboy shifter is basically the exact same setup.

Subaru is gouging the hell out of people. The STI linkage is the same as the Stock linkage. But a shifter only. You will get the same net effect.

If people take nothing from this, they should know that. Shifter only, oh and bushings as well... CUSCO or Kartboy both make a huge difference.

SCRAPPYDO

[WRXGirl]

The linkage from the Sti is the same. All you need is the shifter. I usually talk customers out of ordering the whole kit & sell them one of 2 I have. The kartboy shifter is great!
Pam

[Swivel1000]

Thats exactly what Shawn from AFS Motorsports told me. He sais from his comparison the linkage from the STi and the STOCK were idential. HE said maybe there was some EXTREMELY slight difference, but none that he could notice by looking or after installing.

matt

[SCRAPPYDO]

Ha haaaaaaaaaa

told ya..

SCRAPPYDO

[Fmdeadrick]

The best I can determine for why the STi or SPt (or whatever they call it here) include both the lower mounting frame and linkage is that this may be the way Subaru receives these parts from THEIR supplier. Additionally, I had thought the linkage on the STi had a slight bend to clear the tunnel, is this true? Also, to limit the somewhat difficult task of inserting the ball into the socket, maybe they think its better to sell the whole lower mount. Seems like more work to me. I'd say buy the Kartboy setup (of course) and use the money you save to buy some STi stickers and just tell people you have STi components. You could also just get some Kartboy stickers if we ever get out of shop and have some made. Speaking of which, we'd be interested in a trade-out of parts for stickers if someone can make us some. Thanks for your support.


Bartles and Kartboy
www.kartboy.com

[Cliff Ditchhanger]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes anyway... I purchsed the Kartboy shifter and the Cusco bushings. I installed it and was very pleased with the results. Very short throw, extremely gated feel. I was very happy until I started to have problems getting into first gear. I thought it was me, but I would drive my other frend's cars and had no problem. I started to worry a little, so I purchased the STi kit. I know this was retarded after I ordered it (because the linagkes are all the same...something that was made more clear when I removed the stock unit and compared the two). I kept the Cusco bushings on the STi kit. The STi kit feels a little better than stock, and with the bushings it feels even better than stock. I am happy now and have no problems with first gear. Tom (Kartboy) makes a great product and one of my friends is enjoying the shifter...I just wanted to feel better with an STi product.

[Patrick Olsen]

I've been in a car with the Kartboy shifter, and frankly I think the stick itself is too short. Shortening the stick may be a great way to shorten the throw some more (in addition to changing the fulcrum point), but it puts the knob down too low IMHO.

On my first Legacy, I installed a SOLA Gearshift Luna knob - a very sharp looking CNC-milled aluminum ball. The Luna knob was about 1" shorter than the stock knob. So basically I cut off about half off what the Kartboy shifter does, but it didn't move the knob too low, just about perfect for me. Even with the stock shift linkage and stick, I noticed an improvement in the throw length, and the shift action just kinda felt better (probably a placebo effect, but I'm thinkin' it might also be the soft leather stock knob vs. hard aluminum SOLA knob). When I wrecked Legacy #1, I sold that knob to an Impreza owner (who still had a stock shifter) and he was also very impressed.

I have an STi shifter in my garage, never got around to installing it on Legacy #1. I intend to install the STi linkage and a SOLA knob in Legacy #2. I think it will be just about perfect. Of course, I've spent more money than I would have for the Kartboy/CUSCO setup, but I think I'll end up with a better (higher) shifter location, yet still have the shorter throw and better feel. We shall see.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

[jdOgg3355]

Great Post! You definitely helped me make up my mind. I was gonna do the short throw I just couldn't decide when. I'm now curious about the mounts. How much? and how hard are they to do?
J

[Jon Bogert]

Cliff, the interference you refer to is apparently pretty common with short shifters. Check out what I did to solve the problem on my car:
http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Foru...ML/000580.html

[tom@kartboy]

i have addressed the clearence clarence.
the shifters for the last year have had no problem clearing the tunnel
[email protected]

[Jon Bogert]

Umm, how? Or do I have to buy one to find out?

[tom@kartboy]

as if by magic!
its all in the shifter geometry. i think i have had about 20-30 shifers in my car till i settled on this one.