is using a non-subaru timing belt OK?

[lj17]

at a hare over 76K miles, i am prepping my car for winter and thought it would be a good time to change the timing belt. i called the subaru dealer and they want $60 for a belt, and the local advanced auto parts wants $37.
i know a factory belt would be best, but would the advanced auto belt be ok? is there anyone out there using the cheaper belt? ever heard of any problems with them? (breaking, wearing prematurely, etc.) i know there isn't much of a price difference, but still wanted to ask.

my haynes manual says to change the t-belt at 60K, but thats it. but i know its pretty common to change the water pump at the same time. the dealer wants $88 for the pump, plus a $2 gasket. i am trying to keep cost to a minumum, so would it be okay to leave the water pump until the next t-belt change? do the subaru water pumps tend to wear out quicker than most, or something wierd like that? 76K really dosen't seem like that many miles for a water pump. i know a lot of you guys who lay down $500+ to have dealerships do this kind of stuff will just say to change it too, but i would really like to hold off on spending 90 bucks for something that may still have a good amount of life left. any thoughts or comments are appreciated!

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[rogerd]

As long as you buy from a reputable source, non OEM parts are fine. No need to provide a subsidy to the dealer. Example: went to buy a back up switch for my Chevy K1500 - $40 from the dealer. If I had an Autozone anywhere near, it would have been $7. Since the OEM part broke in 50k miles, how bad can an alternate vendors part be?

[lj17]

well, thats a good point, but i would put a timing belt a little higher up than a back up switch. that kind of thing i am just not sure about using cheaper (both price and most likely quality) aftermarket parts for. i'll probably just go with the oem, since it isn't that much more. and if anything ever happens to it, i can blame subaru instead of some no-name part maker.

i guess my real question was about changing the water pump. is there any kind of history of these going bad prematurely? from what i've read, the 2.2 SOHC is a pretty bulletproof engine, but should i still change the pump, even with only 76K? or would that be "wasting" a considerable amount of it's remaining life? thoughts?

[gtwagon941]

Are you doing the work yourself?? If so, I guess you could wait. The biggest reason to change the water pump is because of the fact that you already have everything apart. If you are paying someone, I would say you should spend the $50 or so and replace it, since you are already paying for the labor now, and if it were to fail in two months you would have to pay the labor again (not very cheap usually).

When I had my timing belt done I did the pump and the crank case seals.

Jared

[lj17]

i said i wanted to keep cost to a minumum, so, YES

i realize that it is extremely convenient to do it at the same time, but i don't know much about subarus, and wasn't sure if there was some wierd quirk with the water pumps, with them wearing out quicky or something. the recommended change for the t-belt is 60,000 miles, but that seems soon to change the water pump (in my experience with various other makes of cars).
it seems like the water pump should last at least to the second t-belt change.

from reading, the only "subaru-specific" things i really learned was that the 2.2 SOHC is a very reliable average engine, while the 2.5 DOHC has more performance and power, but is prone to having leaky headgaskets. i just wanted to know if there was anything like that with the water pump. if there is, i'll change it now. if not, i'll hold off until the next t-belt change, at 140-150K. unless the pump fail before then, of course.

Are they any 2.2 legacy owners who have had water pump problems? what happened and at what mileage?

[biggreen96]

mine lasted till 140K.

you might make it (96 GT)

[lj17]

well, i'll probably let it go until the next t-belt change, and just hope i don't have any serious problems. i don't really want to spend the money on it now anyway. i'll just do my $60 timing belt change and call it a day

[biggreen96]

have fun. Its not very tough. I only drew blood once.

[lj17]

i actually started and got the crankshaft bolt broke loose today. i was suprised that it was a right hand thread since the direction of the engine's rotation is clockwise (looking from the front). i was expecting it to be a left hand thread, so the bolt would oppose the crank's rotation as it is tightened. oh well.

i have read in a few other threads that you have to press the tensioner plunger into the tensioner body very slowly, and the haynes manual says to take at least 3 minutes doing this. BUT, haynes says on 97 and earier models, you can just press it in. it says only on 98 models that you have to press it in very slowly. whats the deal with that? i'll probably press mine slowly anyway, but i just wanted some thoughts on it

[biggreen96]

there was no way i was pressing mine in by hand (96).

[lj17]

i wasn't really thinking pressing it in by hand, but my point was that haynes didn't say anything about pressing it in slowly. they only specify on 98 models that you take at least 3 minutes to press it in. So, i figured on the earlier models, you could just put the tensioner in a vice and press the pin in. is that what you did on your 96?

[fastenova]

I didn't have a vice when I did mine. I just used a C-clamp and did it a lil' at a time. Took me maybe a minute and a half. I could tell when it got more difficult to compress, and I'd let it set for a few seconds, then go a little more. I also just used a nail to keep it compressed. I'm a junkyard mechanic. Who needs real tools???

Make sure to count teeth when you reinstall the t-belt. I counted mine outside of the car, marked the correct intervals with a pencil, then installed, counted once, counted again. I got it right

Good luck.
-Aaron

[lj17]

thanks, and you did this on a 97? i'll probably do mine slow anyway, but was just wondering why they only say to go slow on 98 models. i have the manual, and yes, i plan on counting the teeth. and i must be like you- i double check and triple check everything

[fastenova]

Yeah, on a '97. I also replaced my water pump, at 135K. New thermostat and upper/lower radiator and bypass hoses for good measure. I got my water pump for ~$58 at Schucks. I got a new GMB one. Slightly different design on the turbine fins, but it works great. I think the pump, hoses and gaskets, t-stat, and the right gasket sealant came to around $90 . You should also get a new crank seal, as I know 2.5s are notorious for developing leaks there, and 2.2s may suffer the same fate. Either way, they're like $7 from the dealer and easy to replace, and you don't want to have to tear it all down again just for that

On the tensionerr - 98 and later models have a slightly different design, with the tensoner and idler pulley as one piece. I think it may have to do with the fact that the later models have a smaller tensioner, and it would be more prone to damage by forcing it, but that's just a guess.

I would definately recommend, if you aren't doing it already, a coolant flush and running some radiator cleaner thru your system in preparation for winter along with new antifreeze appropriate for your climate. Also, be sure to top off your battery and make sure it's in good working order, as being stuck in winter really bites. I know from personal experience!

Good luck!
-Aaron

[lj17]

thanks Aaron. as i stated before, i decided i'm going to let the water pump go until the next time i change the timing belt. with only ~76K, i feel sure everything is in pretty good shape yet. the timing belt was the only thing i was really concerned about. with a suggested change every 60K, i thought it would be best to change it. i defintely do not want it breaking!

i'll check on the new crank seal when i pick up the t-belt. if you say they are cheap and easy to change, i might do that too. i already have my battery ready, but didn't flush the coolant yet. what kind of radiator cleaner do you recommend? thanks again.

[fastenova]

The crank seal is super easy to replace. Once the timing belt is off, just take off the inner covers. I think it's like 8 bolts or something. Then you can just use a screwdriver to pull the seal out. Just be careful not to ding up the aluminum in the block around the seal, or you'll have a new seal that doesn't seal. To get the new seal in, just find a nice deep socket the same size as the seal and seat the seal in the block, then use the socket to push it in tight. Some people use hammers with the socket, but I don't think it's necessary, just put some elbow grease into it. There's less of a chance that you'll damage the seal.

As far as the cleaner goes, it doesn't really matter too much. I believe they're all pretty much the same. Also make sure to unscrew the bleeder screw at the top passenger side of the radiator when you're filling it up each time to make sure you get all of the air out of the system.

-Aaron

[lj17]

i was actually just reading in the haynes about replacing the seal. they suggest using a hammer and big socket to tap it in
i think i'll do it by hand like you suggested (if i can)

is there any other seals or anything like that is should replace when i do the t-belt? aside from the water pump and hoses and stuff you suggested before...is there any other little things that get overlooked? like i said, i'm going to wait on the water pump and related parts, but if there are other little things like the crank seal, i'd prefer to change them this time around.

thanks Aaron!

[fastenova]

Check your valve covers for oil leaks, sometimes those go. The gaskets for those are real easy to do. Other than that, there's not a lot else to check without going crazy and replacing everything... I had my heads off the block, so I did pretty much everything I could get to. But at your mileage, everything else should still be wonderful. If you haven't done so recently, replace your AC belt and your PS/Alt. belt since you're in there.

I had my alternator belt give out at the beginning of the summer, and I had to drive 15 blocks or so with my headlights off to conserve power (I had a really old battery at the time too) and there just happened to be two cop cars a few blocks from my house. Needless to say, they thought I was drunk or stupid and interrogated me for several minutes, to my amusement.

I really can't think of anything else though that you'd need to do while you're in there.

Have fun!
-A

[lj17]

alright thanks. i'll just pick up a new t-belt and crank seal then. everything looks good and clean on the outside of the engine, so i think the valve cover gaskets are fine. i'll take a closer look though...

the dealership where i got the car said they replaced the main drive belt just before i got it, and i can tell that they did too, because the belt is in perfect condition. they also replaced the a/c belt, but i have that off anyway. i never use a/c, and the tensioner broke somehow anyway, so i just took the belt off since it was doing me no good. the piece that broke was the threaded part that moves the tensioner pulley up and down. guess what it was made out of....plastic! oh well, i don't miss it

[biggreen96]

dont forget that the defrost uses the a/c...

[lj17]

about that, i always noticed when you turn on the defrost the a/c button lites up (this is in my honda, i'm not actually sure if it does in the legacy or not) why does the defrost use the a/c? i completely removed the a/c system in my honda, but my defrost still works fine. if you only use heat with the defrost (like i do), it doesn't make much sense why you would want the a/c to be on!

i guess i could just pick up a new piece at the dealer, so i could put the a/c belt back on and have it actually work. it can't be that much...after all, it is just made out of plastic

[gtwagon941]

The reason is that the A/C actually de-humidifies the air. Thus, if your windows are fogged up that means the air is humid. When you use the A/C with defrost the A/C system actually pulls moisture from the air before reintroducing it into your car.

Have you ever noticed how dry the air is in an airplane?? Same issue there, but the A/C is always on in a plane.

Hope that helps

Jared

[lj17]

actually i have never flown, but i see what you are saying. i'll check about getting a new tensioner piece when i go get my belt and crank seal, hopefully tomorrow or friday.

thanks Jared