3MI Racing introductory group buy. Long rod and stroker kits!! - Page 2

Brydon · 06-14-2009, 04:51 AM

I have been waiting forever for you to start an account and sell these. And now you do it after I just finished my new shortblock. Oh, well there is always next year.

So when are you going to start making a special block casting with a higher deck height?

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Homemade WRX · 06-14-2009, 09:34 AM

well taller deck height would definitely bring about some issues with our engine bay and spark plugs, now wouldn't it

I've been doing builds on the side for a while but just kept them to one at a time. Heck the first two prototype kits were sent out almost two years ago.

Well as you said, there's always next year. Hope you enjoy actually does treat you well!!

juanmedina · 06-14-2009, 10:20 AM

this guy knows his stuff.... If I had the money I would buy a block from him ASAP.

Micah FTW

you have been very helpful

TY

Homemade WRX · 06-15-2009, 07:44 PM

Thanks Juan and you're welcome for the help. I hope to see you get it running well and setting some kind of a record.

TheStig22B · 06-16-2009, 03:33 PM

Can I get a PM for pricing on a 2.5sb LR. Thanks Micah, some of my customers are interested.

socrates42 · 06-16-2009, 09:56 PM

very interested, 100k miles and time for a refresh on an EJ205. i'm looking for a budget/fun rebuild of my stock 2.0. What supporting mods would be needed to go with the SR kit?

3MI Racing · 06-17-2009, 09:15 AM

It doesn't require any supporting modifications. However if your budget can support it, I'd at least recommend doing cams.

This also depends on your current mods. If you'd like more specific setup info, shoot me a PM and let me know if you use the car for anything in particular; be it auto-x, road course, the occassional drag day, etc...

-Micah

domestic_abuser · 07-07-2009, 02:56 PM

what are the limits to your motors?

max rpms?
max power?
what block would you recommend for track days, the 2.34 or the sleeved 2.45?
what oil pump do you recommend be used?
when comparing spool up on a 35R sized turbo I'd assume that a 2.34 block with 9:1 compression would have about the same or better spool up do to the reduced rotational mass, is this correct?

These questions are for your base LR motors and without anything special just higher compression...

3MI Racing · 07-07-2009, 03:37 PM

'Max RPM' actually hasn't been found nor has 'max power'. Beta Test motors were never mounted to turbo's larger than 35R's. They have seen over 9000 RPM but not for extended periods of time (due to outrunning the turbos flow/staying in the powerband).
Neither one should be surpased on a track car. The power is ludicrous for most and the high RPM's require higher oil flow (pick up starvation concern).

For a track use motor; the 2.34LR would be the less 'fickle' motor as overheating in my opinion is the number one cause for dropped sleeves (required for anything over 2.36L). If you won't have an issue with overheating then I'd say sleeve and bore.

I'm working out a deal with a well known tuner to find the limits of the motor as a big bore long rod would be strapped into a drag car.

My shortblocks are shipped with a ported and 'blueprinted' 11mm oil pump. I'm working on a larger, gated pan as well but ultimately a drysump system is the ultimate solution.

When comparing spool up...what am I comparing it to?

domestic_abuser · 07-08-2009, 12:33 AM

My fault on not being specific about the spool up question, I was referring to the 2.5 motors in general.

3MI Racing · 07-08-2009, 09:14 AM

It is laggier...less displacement and a longer rod ratio.

the 2.45L is laggier only based upon rod ratio really but a bump in CR will help. They are practically the same displacement at the factory EJ257.

3MI Racing · 07-13-2009, 02:31 PM

well as this group buy has kept rolling on; I figured I'd add some information for those interested.
I've made a few simple graphs to demonstrate the differences in the rotating assembly, mainly between the EJ257 and the 3MI Racing Long rod kit. For those interested in the short rod kit, would fall between the EJ257 and Long rod kit, closer to the EJ257.

In this graph, you can see the instantaneous piston acceleration. Acceleration of the piston leaving TDC is the leading caues of rod failures in motors do to stress of the rod trying to pull the piston away from TDC. This also puts great load on the rod bearing, which we all know if a great failure point on our beloved EJ series motors.
This graph also displays the differences in dwell at Top Dead Center and Bottom Dead Center. This is where the 'breathing' changes are made in a long vs. shortrod motor.

This graph displays the instantaneous velocities of the two different shortblocks.

This is a graph to purely show the difference in loading via combustion of the various rod ratios.

Acceleration and Velocity Data is for both assebmlies at 8500 RPM

Oh and bump

Rick Hunter · 07-14-2009, 12:31 PM

Very interesting data. Thank you for posting it!

Here's a site that has a Java animation of piston velocities, acceleration & location. One can plug in different numbers to see the difference a LR setup makes. Hopefully it's accurate!

http://www.wfu.edu/~rollins/piston/animation/graph_1/

Homemade WRX · 07-14-2009, 01:22 PM

Yup, I've seen that site before from quite a while back. The formulas all are correct on it. Simple slider crank model.

I'll be posting some 83mm stroker and my SR rod ratio graphs later.

Then I'll be giving some further explanation. Really ought to work up a FAQ for rod ratios, if I have the time.

CoolRex · 07-14-2009, 01:49 PM

Nice data. Wish I had the money.

Micah I sent a PM to your 3MI name.

Homemade WRX · 07-14-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolRex

Nice data. Wish I had the money.

Micah I sent a PM to your 3MI name.

I'm working on making a more economy kit too...as well as one that can use off the shelf pistons...both will cut my piston and rod prices pretty much in half.

I know money is an issue for several people who have shown interest.

wrxsti.l · 08-03-2009, 02:59 AM

heya Micah, just a few Qs mate.

What stroke is used in your 2.34L long rod kit for the 2.0L (75mm)?
What piston diameter? (99.5mm)?
re the rods I or H beam?
what do the piston and rods weigh?
What would comp ratio be if kit is used in an ADM EJ207?
If it is the standard 75mm crank, how much just for the piston and rods to suit a 2.34L long rod build?

Leslie

3MI Racing · 08-04-2009, 12:04 PM

1 & 2.)The 2.34L is a 99.5mm bore and 75mm stroke. Pistons and rods share no common dimension with factory componenets other than big end bearing diameter.

3.)The rods are actually Pauter Billet rods, sometimes called and 'x-beam' rod.

4.)Piston weights range greatly based upon chosen dish volume and alloy. For instance, an 8.8:1 CR 4" piston is only 408 grams in 2618 alloy

Rods sit around 608-612 pending on the batch but are grouped by Pauter (usually within 2 grams of each other) according to base weight for easier balancing.

5.) compression ratio is completely custom and pistons are made to YOUR specs.

6.) If you want the full kit minus the factory crank, I simply deduct the $340 cost of the crank from the price. I don't mark up OEM parts, as we can all get them for super cheap. It just makes it easier if you opt for coatings or cryo treatment that I get done locally.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask away!!

-Micah

maxspeedingrods · 08-05-2009, 09:39 PM

just hang around
Nice!

Assami · 08-15-2009, 01:53 PM

hi buddy, you are highly recommended

can you see this and give your opinion? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...8#post27791758 can you please PM me on a full short block shipped to NY 11413

3MI Racing · 08-16-2009, 12:23 AM

PM'ed you

Lucky Strike · 11-17-2009, 11:52 PM

tried to pm 3mi with no success, sent to homemade.

Homemade WRX · 11-18-2009, 11:11 AM

yeah, didn't pay my vendor 'rent' this month...

06-14-2009, 04:51 AM	#26
Brydon Scooby Specialist Member Sales Rating: (7) Member#: 107569 Join Date: Feb 2006 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Vancouver, WA Vehicle: 1998 Forester S SRP	I have been waiting forever for you to start an account and sell these. And now you do it after I just finished my new shortblock. Oh, well there is always next year. So when are you going to start making a special block casting with a higher deck height? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by Brydon; 06-14-2009 at 04:59 AM.

07-13-2009, 02:31 PM	#37
3MI Racing Former Vendor Vendor Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 200987 Join Date: Jan 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: VA	well as this group buy has kept rolling on; I figured I'd add some information for those interested. I've made a few simple graphs to demonstrate the differences in the rotating assembly, mainly between the EJ257 and the 3MI Racing Long rod kit. For those interested in the short rod kit, would fall between the EJ257 and Long rod kit, closer to the EJ257. In this graph, you can see the instantaneous piston acceleration. Acceleration of the piston leaving TDC is the leading caues of rod failures in motors do to stress of the rod trying to pull the piston away from TDC. This also puts great load on the rod bearing, which we all know if a great failure point on our beloved EJ series motors. This graph also displays the differences in dwell at Top Dead Center and Bottom Dead Center. This is where the 'breathing' changes are made in a long vs. shortrod motor. This graph displays the instantaneous velocities of the two different shortblocks. This is a graph to purely show the difference in loading via combustion of the various rod ratios. Acceleration and Velocity Data is for both assebmlies at 8500 RPM Oh and bump Last edited by 3MI Racing; 07-13-2009 at 02:38 PM.

08-03-2009, 02:59 AM	#42
wrxsti.l Scooby Specialist Member Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 156973 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: International Location: Adelaide, Australia Vehicle: 2002 ADM WRX STi STi Black/Blue	heya Micah, just a few Qs mate. What stroke is used in your 2.34L long rod kit for the 2.0L (75mm)? What piston diameter? (99.5mm)? re the rods I or H beam? what do the piston and rods weigh? What would comp ratio be if kit is used in an ADM EJ207? If it is the standard 75mm crank, how much just for the piston and rods to suit a 2.34L long rod build? Leslie

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06-14-2009, 09:34 AM	#27
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Milton Keynes, UK Vehicle: 96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!!	well taller deck height would definitely bring about some issues with our engine bay and spark plugs, now wouldn't it I've been doing builds on the side for a while but just kept them to one at a time. Heck the first two prototype kits were sent out almost two years ago. Well as you said, there's always next year. Hope you enjoy actually does treat you well!!

06-14-2009, 10:20 AM	#28
juanmedina Scooby Guru Member Sales Rating: (32) Member#: 133146 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SC Vehicle: 07 FPgreen [email protected] WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph	this guy knows his stuff.... If I had the money I would buy a block from him ASAP. Micah FTW you have been very helpful TY

06-15-2009, 07:44 PM	#29
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Milton Keynes, UK Vehicle: 96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!!	Thanks Juan and you're welcome for the help. I hope to see you get it running well and setting some kind of a record.

06-16-2009, 03:33 PM	#30
TheStig22B Scooby Newbie Member Sales Rating: (2) Member#: 171328 Join Date: Feb 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 01 GT35R'd RS	Can I get a PM for pricing on a 2.5sb LR. Thanks Micah, some of my customers are interested.

06-16-2009, 09:56 PM	#31
socrates42 Scooby Specialist Member Sales Rating: (4) Member#: 7747 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: DC Metro Vehicle: 2004 WRX 5door 5spd 08 E90 M3	very interested, 100k miles and time for a refresh on an EJ205. i'm looking for a budget/fun rebuild of my stock 2.0. What supporting mods would be needed to go with the SR kit?

06-17-2009, 09:15 AM	#32
3MI Racing Former Vendor Vendor Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 200987 Join Date: Jan 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: VA	It doesn't require any supporting modifications. However if your budget can support it, I'd at least recommend doing cams. This also depends on your current mods. If you'd like more specific setup info, shoot me a PM and let me know if you use the car for anything in particular; be it auto-x, road course, the occassional drag day, etc... -Micah

07-07-2009, 02:56 PM	#33
domestic_abuser Scooby Specialist Member Sales Rating: (14) Member#: 126696 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: las vegas Vehicle: 2002 Fatbody bugeye 03 R1 09 Raptor 700R	what are the limits to your motors? max rpms? max power? what block would you recommend for track days, the 2.34 or the sleeved 2.45? what oil pump do you recommend be used? when comparing spool up on a 35R sized turbo I'd assume that a 2.34 block with 9:1 compression would have about the same or better spool up do to the reduced rotational mass, is this correct? These questions are for your base LR motors and without anything special just higher compression...

07-07-2009, 03:37 PM	#34
3MI Racing Former Vendor Vendor Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 200987 Join Date: Jan 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: VA	'Max RPM' actually hasn't been found nor has 'max power'. Beta Test motors were never mounted to turbo's larger than 35R's. They have seen over 9000 RPM but not for extended periods of time (due to outrunning the turbos flow/staying in the powerband). Neither one should be surpased on a track car. The power is ludicrous for most and the high RPM's require higher oil flow (pick up starvation concern). For a track use motor; the 2.34LR would be the less 'fickle' motor as overheating in my opinion is the number one cause for dropped sleeves (required for anything over 2.36L). If you won't have an issue with overheating then I'd say sleeve and bore. I'm working out a deal with a well known tuner to find the limits of the motor as a big bore long rod would be strapped into a drag car. My shortblocks are shipped with a ported and 'blueprinted' 11mm oil pump. I'm working on a larger, gated pan as well but ultimately a drysump system is the ultimate solution. When comparing spool up...what am I comparing it to?

07-08-2009, 12:33 AM	#35
domestic_abuser Scooby Specialist Member Sales Rating: (14) Member#: 126696 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: las vegas Vehicle: 2002 Fatbody bugeye 03 R1 09 Raptor 700R	My fault on not being specific about the spool up question, I was referring to the 2.5 motors in general.

07-08-2009, 09:14 AM	#36
3MI Racing Former Vendor Vendor Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 200987 Join Date: Jan 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: VA	It is laggier...less displacement and a longer rod ratio. the 2.45L is laggier only based upon rod ratio really but a bump in CR will help. They are practically the same displacement at the factory EJ257.

07-14-2009, 12:31 PM	#38
Rick Hunter Scooby Newbie Member Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 825 Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Kanada Vehicle: 2002 wrx	Very interesting data. Thank you for posting it! Here's a site that has a Java animation of piston velocities, acceleration & location. One can plug in different numbers to see the difference a LR setup makes. Hopefully it's accurate! http://www.wfu.edu/~rollins/piston/animation/graph_1/

07-14-2009, 01:22 PM	#39
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Milton Keynes, UK Vehicle: 96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!!	Yup, I've seen that site before from quite a while back. The formulas all are correct on it. Simple slider crank model. I'll be posting some 83mm stroker and my SR rod ratio graphs later. Then I'll be giving some further explanation. Really ought to work up a FAQ for rod ratios, if I have the time.

07-14-2009, 01:49 PM	#40
CoolRex * Banned * Member Sales Rating: (11) Member#: 85813 Join Date: Apr 2005 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Vehicle: 2002 E46 M3 2006 RC51	Nice data. Wish I had the money. Micah I sent a PM to your 3MI name.

08-04-2009, 12:04 PM	#43
3MI Racing Former Vendor Vendor Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 200987 Join Date: Jan 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: VA	1 & 2.)The 2.34L is a 99.5mm bore and 75mm stroke. Pistons and rods share no common dimension with factory componenets other than big end bearing diameter. 3.)The rods are actually Pauter Billet rods, sometimes called and 'x-beam' rod. 4.)Piston weights range greatly based upon chosen dish volume and alloy. For instance, an 8.8:1 CR 4" piston is only 408 grams in 2618 alloy Rods sit around 608-612 pending on the batch but are grouped by Pauter (usually within 2 grams of each other) according to base weight for easier balancing. 5.) compression ratio is completely custom and pistons are made to YOUR specs. 6.) If you want the full kit minus the factory crank, I simply deduct the $340 cost of the crank from the price. I don't mark up OEM parts, as we can all get them for super cheap. It just makes it easier if you opt for coatings or cryo treatment that I get done locally. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask away!! -Micah

08-05-2009, 09:39 PM	#44
maxspeedingrods Scooby Newbie Member Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 219329 Join Date: Aug 2009	just hang around Nice!

08-15-2009, 01:53 PM	#45
Assami Scooby Newbie Member Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 130699 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a U.S in Saudi Arabia Vehicle: 2005 STI JDM 2.0L Blue 315whp	hi buddy, you are highly recommended can you see this and give your opinion? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...8#post27791758 can you please PM me on a full short block shipped to NY 11413

08-16-2009, 12:23 AM	#46
3MI Racing Former Vendor Vendor Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 200987 Join Date: Jan 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: VA	PM'ed you

11-17-2009, 11:52 PM	#47
Lucky Strike Scooby Newbie Member Sales Rating: (0) Member#: 196786 Join Date: Dec 2008	tried to pm 3mi with no success, sent to homemade.

11-18-2009, 11:11 AM	#48
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Milton Keynes, UK Vehicle: 96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!!	yeah, didn't pay my vendor 'rent' this month...