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Old 01-25-2023, 11:02 AM   #51
juanmedina
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If we stopped using gasoline for cars, refineries would shut down. About 75% of our crude oil goes to fuel. There is zero chance that all of those refineries would remain at 100%.

And yes, my calculations are back-of-the-napkin bull****. Totally appreciate that. I don't work in this industry, but everyone gets caught up in the minutia of "but your EV is charged via coal", but there's a much larger picture going on and big oil has put up the curtain so you don't see what's really going on... The richest people in the world have somehow brainwashed a large portion of the country to continue enriching them with our taxpayer dollars... it's like stockholm syndrome.
100%. The majority of refined oil is used transportation and it is only a matter of time before all the means of transportation can be replaced by EV platforms.

For fun I was looking at my 7 year solar system that I have never cleaned. It is a small system with 16 panels 4.1kW and it produced 5.2MWh of energy. Looking at my Tesla 2022 energy consumption it was 2,672kWh with about total gas savings of $800. So my system can power two electric car for an entire year and paid $4500 bucks for my solar system . I think that is amazing and the panels are supposed to last 30 years +. I assume the solar panel technology has improved a lot since I purchased my system but it is amazing to me how a small foot print of panels can power two cars for the life of the vehicle easily.
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:50 PM   #52
dwf137
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I agree overall with your argument that we would save emissions by reducing the production of gasoline. However, the oil refineries arenít exclusively making gasoline. When oil is refined several products are created including more expensive products like diesel and jet fuel. We would need to get all aircraft and heavy machinery onto electricity before all refineries theoretically shut down. A more likely scenario is that the US will become a large gasoline exporter as the demand for gasoline in the U.S. goes down. I can pretty much guarantee they arenít going to walk away from all that money.
75% of our crude oil goes to fuel, including gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, etc. The rest goes to other goods like plastics. That other 25% will remain untouched, or grow. But with that other 75%, what happens when demand goes down? The price goes down. If we cut off our use of oil for personal vehicle transportation, demand will drop, refineries will either close (they're already starting to close) or be used only part time. Energy use will drop, and then the price of the remaining fuel will be cheaper as there's more supply than demand. That means cheaper liquid fuel for the industries that really need it like aviation, shipping, etc.

Clearly we're talking pie in the sky here. No way we're all switching over to EV's. It's impractical for a good portion (but not majority) of the population. But every person that does switch is causing a slow shift. It's already started. 5% of our countries refinery capacity has shut down in the past few years. Part of that was pandemic driven, but companies are choosing to dismantle them permanently because it doesn't make business sense to get them back up and running.
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Old 01-25-2023, 02:39 PM   #53
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75% of our crude oil goes to fuel, including gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, etc. The rest goes to other goods like plastics. That other 25% will remain untouched, or grow. But with that other 75%, what happens when demand goes down? The price goes down. If we cut off our use of oil for personal vehicle transportation, demand will drop, refineries will either close (they're already starting to close) or be used only part time. Energy use will drop, and then the price of the remaining fuel will be cheaper as there's more supply than demand. That means cheaper liquid fuel for the industries that really need it like aviation, shipping, etc.

Clearly we're talking pie in the sky here. No way we're all switching over to EV's. It's impractical for a good portion (but not majority) of the population. But every person that does switch is causing a slow shift. It's already started. 5% of our countries refinery capacity has shut down in the past few years. Part of that was pandemic driven, but companies are choosing to dismantle them permanently because it doesn't make business sense to get them back up and running.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. With the government meddling and picking 'winners', no telling how this will happen and at what cost to taxpayers. Practicality or impracticalities of an EV are not really important. What people WANT drives most car purchases. Like has been said before, people do not drive what they need, they drive what they want.

Refineries can switch what end products they make. They all can make Many products from raw sweet crude. They will adapt.
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:10 PM   #54
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out. With the government meddling and picking 'winners', no telling how this will happen and at what cost to taxpayers. Practicality or impracticalities of an EV are not really important. What people WANT drives most car purchases. Like has been said before, people do not drive what they need, they drive what they want.

Refineries can switch what end products they make. They all can make Many products from raw sweet crude. They will adapt.
where one door closes, another opens. businesses will adapt, or be replaced with new ones. It's hard to imagine how things will adapt, but they will. ICE will be around for a long time, even in places where EV's are mandated for new car purchases. They aren't crushing old ICE cars, and you can still go to an adjacent state and buy one. I also think the states that are mandating are going to cave and switch to "electrified" cars, not pure BEV, so hybrids will fly for a little while longer, but we'll see as the deadlines come close.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:34 PM   #55
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The door that opens will be exporting refined petroleum products like gasoline to countries that can't afford Teslas.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=MGFEXUS1&f=M
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:35 PM   #56
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Double post
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Old 01-26-2023, 09:55 AM   #57
juanmedina
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The door that opens will be exporting refined petroleum products like gasoline to countries that can't afford Teslas.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=MGFEXUS1&f=M
China has way cheaper alternatives of EV's than Tesla's that they export to 3rd world countries. Tesla are way to big in size for most 3rd world countries.
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Old 01-26-2023, 10:03 AM   #58
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I love how the people in states like Washington, Oregon, and California, where Democratic policies have lead to record numbers of homeless, drug overdoses, and out of control crime still think that they know best and advocate that the rest of the country be forced to follow suit. CLOWNS
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Old 01-26-2023, 10:25 AM   #59
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I love how the people in states like Washington, Oregon, and California, where Democratic policies have lead to record numbers of homeless, drug overdoses, and out of control crime still think that they know best and advocate that the rest of the country be forced to follow suit. CLOWNS
What up Donald
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Old 01-26-2023, 12:47 PM   #60
dwf137
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I love how the people in states like Washington, Oregon, and California, where Democratic policies have lead to record numbers of homeless, drug overdoses, and out of control crime still think that they know best and advocate that the rest of the country be forced to follow suit. CLOWNS
I think you're lost. Take your garbage over here: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=90
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