WRX Wagon fender rolling w/pics- good news and bad news

[JohnW]

This is a continuation of my post (http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=175566) on my WRX Wagon with Tein Wagon Coilovers, 17"x7.5" Rota Subzero wheels, and 225/45/17 S03s. However, this should apply to ANY WRX Wagon that has been lowered and using most wider 225/45/17 tires.

Problem:

Severe tire rubbing on fender lip, mainly in the rear, and some tire rubbing of plasic liner.

Attempted Solutions:

1) Added rear camber bolts to add more negative camber. Didn't work. Even with -1.5 camber the rear tire would scrape the inner lip of fender. Couldn't go much further with negative camber without affecting tire wear and rubbing with coilovers.

2) Raised car to 1.0" drop in front and .5" drop in rear. Still didn't work. The rear tire would scrape during hard corning at autox. The tire damage occured at this time. During normal driving, it didn't rub.

3) So, finally, I decided I absolutely had to get my fenders rolled because I didn't want to run the car at stock height. Since I was getting the fenders rolled, I lowered the car back down to 1.5" drop in front and 1.0" inch drop in rear.

Good News:

The tires don't rub against the fender lip anymore.

Bad News:

The rubbing is now occuring inside the rear wheel well. Well, t least the fender rolling worked...

Now, I have to consider 2 more options:

1) Hope that the cusco front and rear sway bars going in sometime soon will reduce body roll and thus prevent the tire from being pushed all the way up into the top of the wheel well.

2) Get stiffer replacement springs for the rear. i.e. 4kg instead of 3kg. I'd rather not do this since I don't know how it would affect the dampening...

Since I already have the Cusco sway bars on order and they should be arriving any minute now, I will try those first and report back later.

FYI, here is a picture of the fender rolled in the rear along with the tire damage that occured prior to rolling:

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[JohnW]

Here is a view of the left rear:

[JohnW]

Here is a picture of the rear wheel well showing where the rubbing is now occuring in the inside...

[JohnW]

And finally, here is a picture of some rubbing on the inside of the front left that occured when the car was lowered to 1.75 front and 1.25 rear.

[gtguy]

I have to ask what the offset of those Rota wheels is. Sounds like you're having to go through some pretty radical stuff. Bummer.

If a 1.0 front and .5 rear drop (minimal, to be sure) didn't fix the rubbing, a potential problem might be offset, or it might be that those Teins are softer than anyone realizes. I don't think that you should be rubbing with a drop that small.

Kevin

[Tuning Factory Inc.]

Those S-03's must be huge tires. I had a similar setup with Yoko AVS Sports and had no problems. I now have 18X7.5's with Toyo T1-S. Again, no problems. I think the rubber lip is touching on really big bumps but nothing a drmel tool won't fix.

[mav1c]

It's amazing. You are dealing with the exact same problems I'm having with a very similar set-up. Only difference is I have Falken Azenis tires.

My rubbing does not seem to be as severe as yours, so I'm thinking that might be because I have a 22mm Whiteline sway bar up front, and a 20-24mm adjustable in the rear, set on 24mm. I too am getting the fenders rolled this Monday, So I will see if I still get rubbing, or the big sway bars prevent that.

We're in the same place my friend.

[RidinLow]

How stiff are those Teins? I'm dropped by a significant margin on Whitelines (about half a finger gap in the back), and even while autoxing on 225/50 16 BFG R1's on RS wheels, I don't get any rubbing (rolled fenders here as well). Maybe your car is rolling more than mine?

I don't have any trouble on my 225/45 17 HTRZ2's on ET48 17x7 OZ SL's either.

[JohnW]

The Rotas are +48 offset. I believe these are the correct offset for the 7.5" width rims. Any less and I'd get more fender rubbing. Any more, I'd have trouble clearing the coilovers.

The Tein Wagon springs are 280 (5kg) front and 163 rear (3kg). Initially, there was some discussion regarding why the huge difference between front and rear.

Having driving this combination at autox, I feel they put stiffer in the front to prevent fender rubbing on turns, to reduce plowing during braking and cornering, and reduce dive during braking.

I don't believe they expected the rear to rub so they were able to put more compliant springs for a better ride.

The rears may rub because the Tein Wagon coilovers are speced for a 18"x7.5" wheel at +48 offset with 225/40/18 tires. In many cases, a 225/40/18 tire is actully narrower than a 225/45/17 tire because there is less buldge of the wheel due to the lower profile In fact for the S03, the tread width is quoted as 8.3 for the 18" vs. 8.4 for the 17".

Regardless, I don't think the typical driver will get the fenders wheel well rubbing that I'm getting because I have to push the car to the limit to get the rubbing to occur. This requires either autox or track events, or crazy street driving to occur.

[JohnW]

1/2 finger is back is very low indeed. I have mine at 2 fingers in back and 3 fingers in front (14.25" front and 13.75" rear as measure from center of cap to bottom of fender). This is a little higher than the Tien recommended height of 13.8" in front and 13.4" in rear.

The problem could be due to only 168lb/inch springs in the rear. The front, with 280lb/inch doesn't have fender rubbing problems.

What are your spring rates?

Originally posted by RidinLow
How stiff are those Teins? I'm dropped by a significant margin on Whitelines (about half a finger gap in the back), and even while autoxing on 225/50 16 BFG R1's on RS wheels, I don't get any rubbing (rolled fenders here as well). Maybe your car is rolling more than mine?

I don't have any trouble on my 225/45 17 HTRZ2's on ET48 17x7 OZ SL's either.

[JohnW]

FYI as measured from center of wheel cap to botton of metal fender (not including rear moulding):

SOA speced stock height is
Front: 15.6" plus/minus .5"
Rear: 14.8" plus/minus .5"

Tein's quoted stock height for Sport Wagon is
Front: 15.3"
Rear: 14.4"

My stock height is
Front: 15.25"
Rear: 14.5"

Tein's recommended lowered height is
Front: 13.8" (1.5" lowered)
Rear: 13.4" (1" lowered)

My current lowered height is
Front: 14.25"
Rear: 13.75"

[RidinLow]

IIRC, the Whitelines are 190 in front and 170ish in back. If your fronts are super stiff and your rears are about as stiff as mine, your car should be rolling less in the corners. The fronts will be overtaxed from doing all that work, causing overall grip to be reduced, and it's not like the rear of the car will roll more than the front unless you're on the gas... which may be a problem too.

[mlambert]

I was looking forward to hearing that after you rolled the fenders you no longer rubbed...I still have my teins laying on my floor...

[paultg]

Why not sell the tires and get some 215 width tires? Seems like a much easier solution than trying to modify your car permanently like you did. I guess the 215 could be too wide also, but this sure seems extreme..

Paul G.

[JSiwek]

Different tires have different section widths also. Section width is the widest part of the tire, which would be near the center of the sidewall... kinda the bulge, if you will... the part that would protect your rim from a curb.

Haha, anyway... in 225/45/17 section widths can go from like 7.9 to 9 ish inches wide and I know that would make a difference with rubbing and clearance issues!!!

Jeremy

[JohnW]

I wouldn't hesitate to install the Teins again. Although I may be having problems with rubbing, the results are night and day compared to stock.

Last weekend at the autox, I drove slowly around the cones because of the rubbing, and I still got very decent times. In the second run, I had a friend with a S4 join me. Although I could't push the car, I still beat his fastest time by almost 1 second. And, I almost matched VeloLexus's time when I'm usually 2 seconds behind.

At this point, I think the S03s are partially at fault for causing the rubbing. They are especially wide. The fender rolling solved rubbing against the fender. Now, it is rubbing into the wheel well. This only occurs when the car is pushed nearly to the limit. And I haven't installed sway bars yet.

So, in any case, I still highly recommend the Tein Wagon coilovers. For the price, I don't think you can get a better deal.

Originally posted by mlambert
I was looking forward to hearing that after you rolled the fenders you no longer rubbed...I still have my teins laying on my floor...

[mav1c]

JohnW,

You din't have problems with the paint cracking?

Thanks,

Tim

[mlambert]

just curious about how things are going johnw, the portland wrx guys helped to install teins on my wagon this past weekend and I havnt installed wheels yet. Doing some fine tuning of the teins this coming weekend, but so far everythings great. BTW where do you measure your drop from, center of wheel straight up to fender lip? We eyeball'd mine

[Legacy777]

Just curious.....I know a bit of people that roll the fenders if they are getting rubbing....but you hardly see anyone shave the fenders and put a trim piece back on.

I opted to get them shaved. A buddy near home in Seattle, owns a shop and did it for me. He peeled back the stock rubber trim piece, used a dremel or die grinder type tool. Shaved material off of the top of the fender....then tapered the amount of material removed into the rest of the fender.

When he was all finished, he put a new plastic trim piece on......it's good as new.

Here's some pics

http://www.main.experiencetherave.co...endertrim1.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.co...endertrim2.jpg

Josh

[mav1c]

I got my fenders rolled on Monday, and now there is no rubbing....anywhere. The tires do not it the fender liner. I do have the Whiteline sway bars and endlinks to help stiffen things up, so I'm sure that's helping. I think I'm FINALLY done with this rubbing issue.

[Z1 Performance]

I remember a few years back on the Subaru 2.5Rs showcar (maybe 97-98). They had huge rubbing issues as well on the inner rear fender well, and I seem to recall them using a hammer (ouch!) to literally punch dents in the inner well so the tire didn't rub.

I had the same problem on my GC8 with the prodrive suspension,215/45/17 tires, and 17 inch wheels (Rota) with a +42 offset. I tried rolling the fenders too....no luck. What I ended up doing was findign a machinest who actually increased the offset of my wheels my shaving material off the center hub of the car. The wheels I had had a TON of meat there, so it was perfectly safe, and I never had runbbing issues again.

adam
Z-1

[JohnW]

After raising the rear by .5 inch:

My NEW current lowered height is
Front: 14.25"
Rear: 14.25"

There was NO rubbing at the track with driver and 1 passenger in front passenger seat.

Also, there is minimal paint cracking since the person doing the fender rolling was using a heat gun. I think I only saw a little bit of paint cracking under 1 fender. Even if it cracks, it won't be noticeable.

Finally, the measurements are from the center of the wheel cap to the bottom of the metal fender lip when measured perpendicular to floor.