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Old 01-17-2023, 11:15 AM   #951
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Toyota isn't the only one who thinks *knows* this. The EV push, the argument that EVs are better for the environment full circle than modern ICE , is the greatest scam of the last decade
Wrong , people like you are just regurgitating bullet points put out by "big oil". EV's are far far less damaging to the environment. This has all been studied, researched, calculated, gone through, examined, ad infinitum. Yes to build basically anything mining, use of the grid, and c02 output is neccesary. EV's however do not emit carbon pollutants during use, nor do they requie perpetual gasoline and literal oil consumption that is burned and blasted out a metal pipe into the atmosphere over 20-30 years of use, EV's do not. Here is the fact you are ignoring; After 2 years of use EV's ERASE the intitial negative production of carbon that was required to make them, and charge them and have less environmental impact than i.c.e powered cars from then on, I.C.E cars always pollute, never get to a net negative C02 production, EV's agter 2 years get to that point because they dont consume oil and gas during ownership anf that (after only 2 years) cancels the initial environmental impact of c02 production to build them mining the materials and charging them. No scam...they are superior in everyway to sn I.C.E powered automobile.
EV's are simply an evolution of the automobile they are high tech, much faster much easier to own and have much nicer features. Take out the B.S politics and its undeniable
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Old 01-17-2023, 11:16 AM   #952
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to get back on the topic of the next gen STI..

my next gen 2023 STI hatch gets about 240 miles per tank in the city (19.5mpg), and takes 5 minutes to fill.

it also has a completely digital dash, wireless android auto and apple car play. totally a step forward for Subaru!

the best part is, it came from the factory running on 3 cylinders, I don't have to wait for the engine to randomly start running on only 3 cylinders!

oh boy, and bonus shot of the hatch area with my daughters stroller for scale.


the cubby pockets on the left and right perfectly fit a gallon jug of milk. I'm in heaven.

Last edited by samagon; 01-17-2023 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 01-17-2023, 11:27 AM   #953
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but does it have a downpipe? or an S209? or a hybrid easy 500 hp? or a DCT FTW?
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Old 01-17-2023, 11:38 AM   #954
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it has IMT, does that count as a DCT?
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Old 01-17-2023, 12:16 PM   #955
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even if it did buddy, doesn't fit all the criteria.
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Old 01-17-2023, 12:22 PM   #956
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Another fact big oil people want you to ignore is this: if all the gas station pumps in the U.S were removed and replaced today ith E.V charging docks, the carbon footprint on the environment would be SMALLER. E.V chargers use LESS kwp/h than a gas station pump, the draw on the electric grid would go DOWN. FACT. Big oil is a scam.
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Old 01-17-2023, 12:47 PM   #957
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
Another fact big oil people want you to ignore is this: if all the gas station pumps in the U.S were removed and replaced today ith E.V charging docks, the carbon footprint on the environment would be SMALLER. E.V chargers use LESS kwp/h than a gas station pump, the draw on the electric grid would go DOWN. FACT. Big oil is a scam.
Please stop. Give me a link where a EV charger uses 3-5 amps of 115 VAC for 5 minutes to complete a full charge.

Run the wattage.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 01-17-2023, 01:06 PM   #958
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Please stop. Give me a link where a EV charger uses 3-5 amps of 115 VAC for 5 minutes to complete a full charge.

Run the wattage.

Peace,

Greg
Lol....plenty of articles on that subject just look it up, i didnt believe it either until.i researched it
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Old 01-17-2023, 01:54 PM   #959
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Please stop. Give me a link where a EV charger uses 3-5 amps of 115 VAC for 5 minutes to complete a full charge.

Run the wattage.

Peace,

Greg
Studies have shown it takes about 5kWh of energy to refine a gallon of gas. 5kWh gives an EV about 20 miles of range. So the argument is - for every gallon of gas saved, there's a roughly equivalent amount of energy saved that could go to charging an EV. From an initial look, there's some stretching of the data involved though, imo.
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Old 01-17-2023, 01:58 PM   #960
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****, I need to pump my gas like I used to pump water from a well back in the old days. That will surely offset the 5KW, I mean it may take me a little longer to fill up but I can surely do it for the environment.
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Old 01-17-2023, 02:07 PM   #961
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What a whole bunch of mixed numbers to garble confuse ignore and conflate. All for a dead STI.
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Old 01-17-2023, 02:07 PM   #962
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Studies have shown it takes about 5kWh of energy to refine a gallon of gas. 5kWh gives an EV about 20 miles of range. So the argument is - for every gallon of gas saved, there's a roughly equivalent amount of energy saved that could go to charging an EV. From an initial look, there's some stretching of the data involved though, imo.
The gas pumps run on electricity lol, and it takes mkre to run them than to. Charge an ev. Some.of rhe data on this is prior to 2019 when the. Chrging docks werent as efficient, upgrades have made the current day e.v chargers far more efficient than they were just a few years ago tonthe ppont where the kwp/h to charge an ev is less, they take up less space can be put anywhere and will only keep getting more amd mkre refined and efficient as well as the batteries which can also.be recylcled and renewed if a cell goes bad. Once gasoline is burned its gone forever. Fed law protects free battery replacement for 10 years some manufacturers warrenty them even longer. If you dont keep your cars longer than 10 years the battery is never going to be a cost.
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Old 01-17-2023, 02:10 PM   #963
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I hope nighthawksti still has me ignored because I don't want to burst his bubble that he is full of ****.
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Old 01-17-2023, 02:19 PM   #964
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I hope nighthawksti still has me ignored because I don't want to burst his bubble that he is full of ****.
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Old 01-17-2023, 02:29 PM   #965
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What a whole bunch of mixed numbers to garble confuse ignore and conflate. All for a dead STI.
It's alive and well:

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Old 01-17-2023, 02:58 PM   #966
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then you're full of **** too

seriously though, the calculation to figure the cost in KWh to get oil out of the ground, to a refinery, refine, to a distribution place, mix with whatever (techron, etc), then get it to a tank in the ground, and into your gas tank? how much energy does that process take?

are we even calculating the energy used in exploration? what about divvying up the final usable products and how much energy is used for each of those? plastics, other oil based chemicals, or other oil based fuels other than gasoline?

what about the production of whatever it is that is generating the energy used to charge the battery? wind, solar, hydro, coal? each of those have some cost in energy to get up to speed, then maintain.

there's no way 5kw to make gasoline, and 5kw to charge a car are at all accurate, and whoever said that (I know Elon did) is blowing some serious smoke up the asses of many people.

anyway, all I know is NightkawkSTI is full of ****, anything he says is suspect, and if you find that he agrees with your position on any topic, it's best to consider that maybe you are wrong.
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:10 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
The gas pumps run on electricity lol, and it takes mkre to run them than to. Charge an ev. Some.of rhe data on this is prior to 2019 when the. Chrging docks werent as efficient, upgrades have made the current day e.v chargers far more efficient than they were just a few years ago tonthe ppont where the kwp/h to charge an ev is less, they take up less space can be put anywhere and will only keep getting more amd mkre refined and efficient as well as the batteries which can also.be recylcled and renewed if a cell goes bad. Once gasoline is burned its gone forever. Fed law protects free battery replacement for 10 years some manufacturers warrenty them even longer. If you dont keep your cars longer than 10 years the battery is never going to be a cost.

What is kwp/h? Is this some new type of measurement?
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:26 PM   #968
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Barely 200+ miles of range from 71 kWh pack
Terribly slow charging
$44-53k and no access to credits (lease loophole to be seen)

That's way behind. The Koreans are eating Subaru/Toyota's lunch. Then consider Model Y and MME for similar prices. Volvo XC40 is now rear drive biased AWD and goes 315 miles.

Toyota doesn't have the technology or the will to regain their lead in electrification.
Got it.

Though, during the presentation when I saw it Sept before last, they were basically saying this was a "start". That the platform was designed for different "upgrades". They could add range or could add power. Relatively easily.

Going along with what you're saying, they'll need to hurry up with those upgrades to be relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
to get back on the topic of the next gen STI..

my next gen 2023 STI hatch gets about 240 miles per tank in the city (19.5mpg), and takes 5 minutes to fill.

it also has a completely digital dash, wireless android auto and apple car play. totally a step forward for Subaru!

the best part is, it came from the factory running on 3 cylinders, I don't have to wait for the engine to randomly start running on only 3 cylinders!

oh boy, and bonus shot of the hatch area with my daughters stroller for scale.


the cubby pockets on the left and right perfectly fit a gallon jug of milk. I'm in heaven.

People talk about the cladding on Subarus to be "dated" and "cheap". Well, this pic harks back to my old Justys(dated AND cheap) with the string lifted rear cover.

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Old 01-17-2023, 03:35 PM   #969
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Got it.

Though, during the presentation when I saw it Sept before last, they were basically saying this was a "start". That the platform was designed for different "upgrades". They could add range or could add power. Relatively easily.

Going along with what you're saying, they'll need to hurry up with those upgrades to be relevant.
Yes. They launched a car in 2022/2023 with mediocre specs from 2019.
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:49 PM   #970
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Also EV's require far... FAR, less parts to build them than I.C.E cars, so they have a smaller carbon footprint to build them as the hundreds more parts that are petroleum based to build an I.C.E car is more costly to.the environement, and makes them.more.complex to build: catalyic converters, emm8ssions systems,exhaust sytems, engine and transmission components , rubber, fuel system components, vapor recirculation/PCV systems, engine cooling, gaskets, filters, (oye!!!) more fluids, and on and on. EV's are MUCH simpler to build and require WAY less parts.to manufacture them compared to a gas and oil powered car even taking the ev battery materials into consideration there is still.no.comparison to the manufacturing complexity and volume of patroleum based parts that is consumed to build a gas and oil powered c02 emmitting automobile.....and thats BEFORE adding all.the replenishing of the gas and oil itself consumed by the i.c.e cars vs EV's over their lifetime and then even BEFORE all the parts that need to be manufactured and replaced in an gas and oil powered car to repair and maintain them to keep them even emmissions compliant as while they age they pullut more and use more oil and gas. There is literally no comparison gas cars are far more environmentally detrimental over thier production and lifetime.of.operation, big oil people want you to ignore this and engrain.it in you that EV's are a scam so.youll keep.buying fuel and oil and dumping into your cars. Oh ya. and i.c.e cars leak. Lmfao!!

Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 01-17-2023 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:54 PM   #971
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Also EV's require far FAR less parts to build them than I.C.E cars, so they have a smaller carbon footprint to build them as the hundreds more parts that are petroleum based to build an I.C.E car is more costly to.the environement, and makes them.more.complex to.build catalyic converters, exhaist sytems, etc, engine and transmission components rubber, more fluids, and on and on. EV's are MUCH simpler to build and require WAY less parts.to manufacture them compared to a gas and oil powered car even taking the ev battwry materials into.consideration there is still.no.comparison to.the manufacturing complexity and volume.of patroleum.based parts that is.consumed to build a.fas and oil.powered c02 emmitting automobile.....and thats BEFORE adding all.the replenishing of the gas and oil.itself.consumed.by the i.c.e cars vs EV's over their lifetime and then even BEFORE all the parts that need to be manufactueed.and replaved in.an gas.and oil.powered car tomrepair maintain them. There is literally no comparison gas cars are far more environmentally detrimental over thier production and lifetime.of.operation, big oil people want you to ignore this and engeain.it in you so.youll keep.buying fuel
Punctuation. is. your. friend.
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:58 PM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
Also EV's require far FAR less parts to build them than I.C.E cars, so they have a smaller carbon footprint to build them as the hundreds more parts that are petroleum based to build an I.C.E car is more costly to.the environement, and makes them.more.complex to.build catalyic converters, exhaist sytems, etc, engine and transmission components rubber, more fluids, and on and on. EV's are MUCH simpler to build and require WAY less parts.to manufacture them compared to a gas and oil powered car even taking the ev battwry materials into.consideration there is still.no.comparison to.the manufacturing complexity and volume.of patroleum.based parts that is.consumed to build a.fas and oil.powered c02 emmitting automobile.....and thats BEFORE adding all.the replenishing of the gas and oil.itself.consumed.by the i.c.e cars vs EV's over their lifetime and then even BEFORE all the parts that need to be manufactueed.and replaved in.an gas.and oil.powered car tomrepair maintain them. There is literally no comparison gas cars are far more environmentally detrimental over thier production and lifetime.of.operation, big oil people want you to ignore this and engeain.it in you so.youll keep.buying fuel
You have zero idea what youíre talking about. Keep regurgitating the articles you read online from pro EV websites. You havenít said one thing thatís factual - I wonít even bother going back and forth with you. I have worked in corporate auto for a long time - and I know a lot of people within. The companies are afraid of building EVís because they do not sell enough to return the investment that it costs to produce them. The regulations are BS, and Toyota is smart because they are doing what they can to avoid a potential bankruptcy caused by the bs ev push.

GM and other automotive companies who end up going full electric will suffer. Porsche knows this - and thatís why they are diving far deeper into synthetic fuels - with a few other companies the public isnít aware of being involved - to try and keep themselves from going under
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:01 PM   #973
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Producing one EV = over 75% more harmful emissions released than producing a ICE.


The difference driving an EV vs modern ICE isnít enough to justify it. Multiple European companies have admitted this.


Volvo even came out and said internally they produced seventy percent high emissions during the production of one EV than ICE
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:12 PM   #974
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You have zero idea what you're talking about. Keep regurgitating the articles you read online from pro EV websites. You haven't said one thing that's factual - I won't even bother going back and forth with you. I have worked in corporate auto for a long time - and I know a lot of people within. The companies are afraid of building EV's because they do not sell enough to return the investment that it costs to produce them. The regulations are BS, and Toyota is smart because they are doing what they can to avoid a potential bankruptcy caused by the bs ev push.

GM and other automotive companies who end up going full electric will suffer. Porsche knows this - and that's why they are diving far deeper into synthetic fuels - with a few other companies the public isn't aware of being involved - to try and keep themselves from going under
Your regurgitating big oil bullet points...you've been bought. Congrats

BtW porsched E fuel costs $44 a gallon ...and still power oil consuming relatively complex i.c.e's duh. These synthetic fuels are worse than petroleum based fuel and simply cant be scaled....they just want to keep fuel in your brain and pivoting away from the superiority of EV power.
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:14 PM   #975
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then you're full of **** too

seriously though, the calculation to figure the cost in KWh to get oil out of the ground, to a refinery, refine, to a distribution place, mix with whatever (techron, etc), then get it to a tank in the ground, and into your gas tank? how much energy does that process take?

are we even calculating the energy used in exploration? what about divvying up the final usable products and how much energy is used for each of those? plastics, other oil based chemicals, or other oil based fuels other than gasoline?

what about the production of whatever it is that is generating the energy used to charge the battery? wind, solar, hydro, coal? each of those have some cost in energy to get up to speed, then maintain.

there's no way 5kw to make gasoline, and 5kw to charge a car are at all accurate, and whoever said that (I know Elon did) is blowing some serious smoke up the asses of many people.

anyway, all I know is NightkawkSTI is full of ****, anything he says is suspect, and if you find that he agrees with your position on any topic, it's best to consider that maybe you are wrong.
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