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Old 01-17-2023, 04:16 PM   #976
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It's alive and well:

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Old 01-17-2023, 04:19 PM   #977
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People talk about the cladding on Subarus to be "dated" and "cheap". Well, this pic harks back to my old Justys(dated AND cheap) with the string lifted rear cover.

The tonneau cover being attached to the lift gate never went away completely. Subaru knew their demographic carry dogs around most of the time. Otherwise VW GTI have had it for a while, among a few other vehicles.

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Old 01-17-2023, 04:20 PM   #978
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That he didn't get it? Got it.
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:29 PM   #979
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there's no way 5kw to make gasoline, and 5kw to charge a car are at all accurate, and whoever said that (I know Elon did) is blowing some serious smoke up the asses of many people.

anyway, all I know is NightkawkSTI is full of ****, anything he says is suspect, and if you find that he agrees with your position on any topic, it's best to consider that maybe you are wrong.
Argonne National Lab is the one that did the study. Purely refining was like 5-6kWh per gallon. That didn't include energy needed to pump the raw oil through pipelines, truck the gasoline to your station, etc.

I think derphawk is conflating the overall energy used in creating a gallon of gas, not the actual pumping energy used. Of course a pump uses energy, but not that much.
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:48 PM   #980
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Argonne National Lab is the one that did the study. Purely refining was like 5-6kWh per gallon. That didn't include energy needed to pump the raw oil through pipelines, truck the gasoline to your station, etc.

I think derphawk is conflating the overall energy used in creating a gallon of gas, not the actual pumping energy used. Of course a pump uses energy, but not that much.
I think it's Elon that popularized that figure. One of the issues is that they don't actually use much electricity to produce gasoline. They just use more oil to produce oil, so you're not really going to gain electricity back by not making gasoline.

The other issue, is that the 5kw number is probably an order of magnitude off.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/so-ex...n-paul-martin/

I have no problem with electric cars. I have problems with false claims. EV's are still better for the environment, but there are caveats.
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:50 PM   #981
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Argonne National Lab is the one that did the study. Purely refining was like 5-6kWh per gallon. That didn't include energy needed to pump the raw oil through pipelines, truck the gasoline to your station, etc.

I think derphawk is conflating the overall energy used in creating a gallon of gas, not the actual pumping energy used. Of course a pump uses energy, but not that much.
A gas station pump uses more kilowatts per hour than an EV charger...byt thank you for highlighting the rest of the oil gas refining cost to even GET Fuel to a gas station pump lol.
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:53 PM   #982
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BTW...have you all heard the news!!!! The next Gen STI is going electric!!
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:08 PM   #983
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A gas station pump uses more kilowatts per hour than an EV charger...byt thank you for highlighting the rest of the oil gas refining cost to even GET Fuel to a gas station pump lol.
What are you talking about?

You don't run a gas pump all the time you are driving. It takes <5 minutes to fill your car.

There are various levels of EV chargers, from 1kw to 300kw. So, yes a normal gas pump will use less than 300kw, but why does that matter?
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:16 PM   #984
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What are you talking about?

You don't run a gas pump all the time you are driving. It takes <5 minutes to fill your car.

There are various levels of EV chargers, from 1kw to 300kw. So, yes a normal gas pump will use less than 300kw, but why does that matter?
good lord...if all the gas station pumps were replaced by home chargers their would be LESS drain in the u.s electric grid. Period. Fact. Amen. Good Day.
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:16 PM   #985
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Originally Posted by wobbletop View Post
What are you talking about?

You don't run a gas pump all the time you are driving. It takes <5 minutes to fill your car.

There are various levels of EV chargers, from 1kw to 300kw. So, yes a normal gas pump will use less than 300kw, but why does that matter?
good lord...if all the gas station pumps were replaced by home chargers there would be LESS drain in the u.s electric grid. Period. Fact. Amen. Good Day.
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:31 PM   #986
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good lord...if all the gas station pumps were replaced by home chargers there would be LESS drain in the u.s electric grid. Period. Fact. Amen. Good Day.
You've yet to provide any source for this, and it makes zero sense. (And Elon saying it, is not a source)

Do you think every gas pump is being run 24/7? Do you think it takes more power to move a liquid from a storage tank than it does to move a 4000lb vehicle at 60 mph?
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:43 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
A gas station pump uses more kilowatts per hour than an EV charger...byt thank you for highlighting the rest of the oil gas refining cost to even GET Fuel to a gas station pump lol.
mmm... kay. and it takes 5 minutes to refill an ICE, yet hours to recharge an EV... Overall energy use is not the same. Not even close.
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:48 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by wobbletop View Post
I think it's Elon that popularized that figure. One of the issues is that they don't actually use much electricity to produce gasoline. They just use more oil to produce oil, so you're not really going to gain electricity back by not making gasoline.

The other issue, is that the 5kw number is probably an order of magnitude off.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/so-ex...n-paul-martin/

I have no problem with electric cars. I have problems with false claims. EV's are still better for the environment, but there are caveats.
All that post is saying is that not all of the energy loss is electricity... Which is why my post says energy loss, not electricity loss. Energy loss is still energy loss. If they weren't refining gasoline, they could have used that energy to do something else. Heat a house, generate more electricity, whatever it is. In whatever form the energy started, 5-6kWh equivalent is lost. That's what BEV's do so well, reduce energy loss. For every unit of energy put into it, less of it is lost. Also why my post said that I think there's some stretching of the data... people are extrapolating things they shouldn't be. But it's important to remember that gas isn't free. Billionaires put a price tag on it, but it's completely arbitrary as the earth isn't charging us for the millions of years it took to make it.

Last edited by dwf137; 01-17-2023 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:56 PM   #989
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Long live Toyota BEV future.
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Old 01-17-2023, 06:57 PM   #990
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Give me a 330hp Hybrid STI in a hatch, no cladding, and mileage 23-25 City, 30-35 Highway, 6MT, Brembos, Black Roof, Wheels weighing less than 25lbs, Performance All Seasons, Headunit from the current gen Forester (No 11.6in bs) and ill buy that mf.

That would be a good start SOA...
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Old 01-17-2023, 08:34 PM   #991
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
Your regurgitating big oil bullet points...you've been bought. Congrats

BtW porsched E fuel costs $44 a gallon ...and still power oil consuming relatively complex i.c.e's duh. These synthetic fuels are worse than petroleum based fuel and simply cant be scaled....they just want to keep fuel in your brain and pivoting away from the superiority of EV power.
$44 a gallon or whatever the cost may be because it isnít being mass produced itís only being used on small scale testing right now.

Big oil? Iíve spent my career working for automotive companies. You have zero credibility or sources for your statements and they have all been incorrect and are clearly biased.

Straight6 junior.


Btw your other posts about the gas stations being less efficient than charging stations is even more ludicrous.
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Old 01-17-2023, 08:51 PM   #992
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Give me 600 more pounds a CVT and bigger footprint with more plastic and smaller headlights.
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Old 01-17-2023, 10:42 PM   #993
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Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
$44 a gallon or whatever the cost may be because it isnít being mass produced itís only being used on small scale testing right now.

Big oil? Iíve spent my career working for automotive companies. You have zero credibility or sources for your statements and they have all been incorrect and are clearly biased.

Straight6 junior.


Btw your other posts about the gas stations being less efficient than charging stations is even more ludicrous.
Yes porsche's Efuel is $44 per gallon. And they are nowhere near capable of scaling it to the point where it would get cheaper anytime soon...maybe in 15 years if it lasts it will be $10 a gallon...EV has too big of a jump. Efuel is just a last ditch gasp.to keep I.C.E engines viable by big oil in the blossoming EV revolution. You should know this.
I get it, you have been working in an industry controlled by big oil. So.you will discredit anything that counters the survival.of that industry. And your simply wrong about Gas Stations vs EV chargers...big oil is doing a good job of surpressing that fact. Ev chargers have become more efficient after 2019 they surpassed gas pumps in kwph efficiency.

these anti ev arguments on here are old and obsolete and outdated and sound like they are from 2010. Lmfao...get a clue people its 2023...the entire auto industry is going EV because now its more.efficient they are easier to manufacture margins are better litrrally everything is better now..in 2010... no.....now? Yes
Get your heads out of 2010 lmao dont be a petrol head

BTW...the number of EV chargers in the U.S has already passed the number of gas pumps.

Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 01-17-2023 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 01-18-2023, 12:53 AM   #994
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mmm... kay. and it takes 5 minutes to refill an ICE, yet hours to recharge an EV... Overall energy use is not the same. Not even close.
to be fair. If you're able to charge your EV at home, the amount of time and spared inconvenience from filling up on the go is pretty huge over the life of the car. Imagine how much time people waste in Costco lines.
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Old 01-18-2023, 06:52 AM   #995
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
People talk about the cladding on Subarus to be "dated" and "cheap". Well, this pic harks back to my old Justys(dated AND cheap) with the string lifted rear cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
The tonneau cover being attached to the lift gate never went away completely. Subaru knew their demographic carry dogs around most of the time. Otherwise VW GTI have had it for a while, among a few other vehicles.
[/IMG]
Prior gen Corolla hatch & Scion hatch had that style cargo cover/parcel shelf as well; you should see what the Matrix had from the factory for a cargo cover/parcel shelf....
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Old 01-18-2023, 09:13 AM   #996
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
Give me a 330hp Hybrid STI in a hatch, no cladding, and mileage 23-25 City, 30-35 Highway, 6MT, Brembos, Black Roof, Wheels weighing less than 25lbs, Performance All Seasons, Headunit from the current gen Forester (No 11.6in bs) and ill buy that mf.

That would be a good start SOA...
You lost me at All Seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Give me 600 more pounds a CVT and bigger footprint with more plastic and smaller headlights.
Tom, is that you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
to be fair. If you're able to charge your EV at home, the amount of time and spared inconvenience from filling up on the go is pretty huge over the life of the car. Imagine how much time people waste in Costco lines.
Yes, agreed. Dear lord, who would trust Costco gas in their car? LOL. Exxon/Mobil or bust.
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Old 01-18-2023, 10:49 AM   #997
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With all the real world use of the 2.4 dit in the nurburgring car and supposed japan rally build, they are seeing what the engine can do. It makes the 2.4 dit paired with two motors for a new STI more viable. One motor attached to the transmission and the one on the rear axle. They can keep the axles connected like the crosstrek was or have no connection to make room for the battery under the floor. You get instant torque from the motors before the turbo spools up. It also gives subaru time to work on a dct to replace the cvt. I recall at one point they were thinking of using the existing two motor setup from the plug-in hybrid crosstrek. However they saw that setup was not built for high performance applications. The rav4 prime setup however allows for 300hp. We wait to see if the upcoming forester will come with a toyota rav4 prime setup. It may allow us a chance to have an electrified STI instead just an all electric one
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Old 01-18-2023, 10:58 AM   #998
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With all the real world use of the 2.4 dit in the nurburgring car and supposed japan rally build, they are seeing what the engine can do. It makes the 2.4 dit paired with two motors for a new STI more viable. One motor attached to the transmission and the one on the rear axle. They can keep the axles connected like the crosstrek was or have no connection to make room for the battery under the floor. You get instant torque from the motors before the turbo spools up. It also gives subaru time to work on a dct to replace the cvt. I recall at one point they were thinking of using the existing two motor setup from the plug-in hybrid crosstrek. However they saw that setup was not built for high performance applications. The rav4 prime setup however allows for 300hp. We wait to see if the upcoming forester will come with a toyota rav4 prime setup. It may allow us a chance to have an electrified STI instead just an all electric one
There's no VB SGP chassis based STI coming.

So, it would make sense to use the eSGP (Toyota-Subaru) skateboard chassis from the Solterra. At that point, the gas engine is long gone.
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Old 01-18-2023, 11:27 AM   #999
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to be fair. If you're able to charge your EV at home, the amount of time and spared inconvenience from filling up on the go is pretty huge over the life of the car. Imagine how much time people waste in Costco lines.
clearly. I mean, I own an EV and recognize the benefits. But suggesting that filling a car with a gas pump uses the same amount of electricity as recharging for the equivalent amount of miles is complete nonsense.
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Old 01-18-2023, 11:55 AM   #1000
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
Yes porsche's Efuel is $44 per gallon. And they are nowhere near capable of scaling it to the point where it would get cheaper anytime soon...maybe in 15 years if it lasts it will be $10 a gallon...EV has too big of a jump. Efuel is just a last ditch gasp.to keep I.C.E engines viable by big oil in the blossoming EV revolution. You should know this.
I get it, you have been working in an industry controlled by big oil. So.you will discredit anything that counters the survival.of that industry. And your simply wrong about Gas Stations vs EV chargers...big oil is doing a good job of surpressing that fact. Ev chargers have become more efficient after 2019 they surpassed gas pumps in kwph efficiency.

these anti ev arguments on here are old and obsolete and outdated and sound like they are from 2010. Lmfao...get a clue people its 2023...the entire auto industry is going EV because now its more.efficient they are easier to manufacture margins are better litrrally everything is better now..in 2010... no.....now? Yes
Get your heads out of 2010 lmao dont be a petrol head

BTW...the number of EV chargers in the U.S has already passed the number of gas pumps.
Pfft....Buc-ees has more gas pumps at one gas station than their are EV running around in the entire world. That is at just one buc-ees in Texas.

See how easy it is to make stupid claims like they are faktual.

I even misspelled something to be more like you.
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