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Old 12-19-2007, 11:10 AM   #76
jamesohoh7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post


It's not a problem, but you have to drive conservatively when you have the Stage 2 map on there? That sounds like a problem to me.
+agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgroppi View Post
I didn't expect anything else, other than that CYA response. I seriously doubt they would ever say doing something like this is 100% guaranteed OK.

...

You can use the stock map as a basemap, but you would be missing out on some tuning done to closed loop tables that are included when running the 100 octane as a basemap. I don't know how significant these changes are. Cobb implies in the release notes that there is a big difference, but I don't understand the details.

When running a stock base back in '04 on my WRX, my car would ping running that stage-2 realtime map. The realtime maps do not (or, back then at least, could-not) modify the OL/CL crossover point, it's duration, or whatever else needs to be done with it ( don't ask me the technical details, I don't know ).
Actually, I recall a post by Trey stating something to the effect of: "if I fixed the stock basemap to handle OL/CL better, it would no longer be a 'stock' basemap".

If the STU basemap fixes the OL/CL stuff, then that may indeed be an 'approved' setup. I did not know that about the STU map.

All I'm saying is, my car pinged an uncomfortable amount doing the stock-base w/staged realtime. I just wouldn't suggest doing it.


So! I suppose the modified 'advice' I would dispense should be: "make sure whatever basemap you run contains the fix for OL/CL lean-out issues".

I still wonder about their whole statement to the effect of "take it easy" though, hmmm.
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:37 AM   #77
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agreed- w/ any 04+ WRX (might not apply to the STi's??) you definitely want the OL/CL taken care of for day to day driving
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:59 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgroppi View Post
I recently emailed Buschur about my catted turboback exhaust. I have only run in local events so far, and I have the technically illegal cobb accessport setup with a stage 2 basemap with CEL defeat, and the STU 100 octane map as a realtime.

I asked Buschur if they had any CEL complaints from customers running the catted turboback without any CEL defeats. They claimed they had never received a CEL-related complaint for that exhaust. The Buschur downpipe has the cat up near the turbo, and the O2 bung in the back at more or less the stock location.
FWIW: Buschur is having a sale:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1411416

10% off all Subaru parts and free shipping on orders over $800 so this would be $810 shipped with the cat and the quiet muffler.

john
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:07 PM   #79
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The Buschur DP looks a lot like the same layout as the Helix catted pipe that I'm using, which does throw codes for me. Is there some other big distinguishing factor?
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:52 PM   #80
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Damn. Yeah going back and reading the thread for whatever reason the Helix appears to be fine on the STi, but not on the WRX. The code you're getting is the P0420 right? I guess I am too trusting of their claim that they've never gotten a CEL with it.

john
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:52 PM   #81
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Probably would better to get the info firsthand from someone that ran the Buschur setup- he might not have any complaints, but many folks know how to "fix" the cel so it's possible folks are getting them.

It is possible Bushchur is using a different (more efficient) cat than the Helix ?????
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:15 PM   #82
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Just so y'all know, I get 0420's on an '04 STi with a Helix catted DP.

Or, at least I did before I put an Invidia DP on and put BSP on the doors...

Truth be told, the only exhaust on ANY OBDII car that is known to be legal is the stock one. (and even then, don't spin/stall your car during the event)
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:03 PM   #83
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Stock exhaust and stock ecu(no flash) for me. I don't think being down on hp will be why I won't win.
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:30 PM   #84
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Wow... 4 pages and no answers, this has the potential to be a costly decision/set of decisions.

Can anyone comment on this guy:
http://www.daddysscp.com/dcart4/prod...2&cat=6&page=1

Thanks,
Chip
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:37 PM   #85
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interesting- the divorce comes in behind the cat- also looks like a fake cat at the rear
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Old 01-27-2008, 04:11 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDGeist View Post
Wow... 4 pages and no answers, this has the potential to be a costly decision/set of decisions.

Can anyone comment on this guy:
http://www.daddysscp.com/dcart4/prod...2&cat=6&page=1

Thanks,
Chip
It appears to be "it depends"

The WRX's that are expecting an uppipe cat appear to be more sensitive than the STi's. That design is similar to the Helix (one cat really close to the turbo) which has worked for some and not for others.

john
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:25 PM   #87
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Sorry if this is a long-answered question, but what are we supposed to be doing with the uppipe sensor to be compliant there?

ButtDyno, to answer your last question, yes, the Helix was giving me the P0420 code. Usually pretty quickly after a reset.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:17 PM   #88
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I think the egt probe just needs to needs to be hooked up and run cel free- I just gutted my stocker (the STi one I'm currently has no provision for the egt)- wasn't the most fun two hours I've ever spent

I found a thread where several folks have run gutted uppipes and never removed the probe- years later they are still cel free.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:56 PM   #89
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I've got an 05 STi (difficult to have guessed that). I'm running the Cobb DP. Now the rules say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo Rules
All emissions monitoring
system hardware and software must be operationally functional as
originally intended by the manufacturer. Tampering with emissions
system software and/or hardware to create or cloak non-compliance is
not permitted. Some examples of emissions system tampering are O2
foolers, disabling or deactivating Check Engine Light (CEL) code indication,
backdating ECU internals from OBD2 to OBD1, etc.
So, I measured my stock DP, and the distance from the O2 sensor bung to the far wall of the exhaust pipe is about 3 1/2". On the Cobb DP, this distance is only 3 1/4". So if I install a spark plug anti-foul (mechanical cel fix), and that pulls the O2 sensor a further 1/4" out of the flow stream, am I not operating the "emissions monitoring system hardware as originally intended by the manufacturer"?

And then my further question is, what is the difference between a mechanical cel fix and a custom DP with a long O2 sensor bung that is welded on it? Why would one be legal and the other not. Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm only a simple monkey.

I put this question forward to Doug on the scca forums, and he responded favorably.
http://www.sccabb.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5670&PN=1
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:59 AM   #90
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After a long day I did some exploring online and found this:

http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...f8581488ba5e8f



Basically a J-shaped O2 sensor bung you can weld into your exhaust. Since it's welded on and becomes part of the exhaust would this possibly be legal?

Or from what I think I read in the link that 05STiDan posted would it be legal to buy a normal O2 sensor bung and weld it in my current exhaust (APS) at the same spot where the O2 bung would be if I had the stock exhaust? (The APS exhaust moves the cat to just after the turbo and the O2 bung is just after that cat, probably about a foot closer to the turbo then where the stock exhaust puts it.)
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:17 AM   #91
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good question, it's kind of a shame that they made things so complicated that's it's difficult to determine what's "legal" and what's not
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:27 AM   #92
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Yea it is annoying how vague this "clarification" is.

I guess we won't really know until there is a protest. Ugh.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:59 AM   #93
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It may or may not be considered a mechanical defeat of the emissions system. We'd need a protest to clarify it's legality.

I'd say run it, but have printed documentation in your car justifying it's legality with references to the solo rules. Analogies don't help a case. Documented facts do.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:12 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky View Post
I have an APS turboback with the gigantic APS cat. I'm in a very similar situation as Max, the car is fine for months then it will randomly throw a P0420, usually cruising on the highway. (I stood over the shoulder of the tuner as he made the base map, so I know all the CELs are enabled)

James' 06 has the new CARB-certified Perrin double-cat downpipe, and the car has not thrown a CEL with it. (he got CELs with the Cobb that he previously had)
Same for me, I am running the APS 3" turbo back with the big cat. Once in a while I will throw a 420 and it always happens on long trips on the highway. So I will go months with no cels and then after a few hours (well more than a few hours, more like 6-8 straight) of highway cruising driving, pop, on it goes.

-Paul
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:29 PM   #95
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That welded on J is essentially exactly the same way that the PDE downpipe is and was specifically used as an example of what was "never legal and crazy to think it ever was" in the original thread before the clarifichange.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:15 PM   #96
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how about his question- the egt probe has been deemed necessary emissions equipment/sensor (correct?) is there anything preventing it from being relocated?

here's why the ?- the Prodrive downpipe has a bung for the egt probe (evidently a UK emissions concern) like so

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Old 02-24-2008, 09:55 PM   #97
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Well here's my report - SUCCESS!

vibrant header/uppipe
EGT stock location
prodrive downpipe with hi-flow
catless mid pipe

1100 miles/20 runs - No CEL
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:01 PM   #98
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^ good to hear as I have a Prodrive catted downpipe too Prodrive mid pipe?
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:03 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
^ good to hear as I have a Prodrive catted downpipe too Prodrive mid pipe?
yessir.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:15 AM   #100
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Well, the car threw a pending P0420 (code is stored, but no CEL, as the fault had not occured frequently enough). Then the car deleted the pending code on it's own. I though I was good to go. Not.

Tonight, while cruising at about 3k in 4th gear for a while, it threw a P0420 and turned on the CEL. This is after 1500 miles of driving.

So, it's hit or miss with one cat. What a ****ty rule.
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