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Old 08-26-2019, 04:26 PM   #1276
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Between the liabilities facing Oscar, the sexual harassment suits between Bert and Ernie, and the embezzlement charges facing Cookie Monster, the only thing Kermit is going to get is a pork-scented schmeckel
LOL
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:42 PM   #1277
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They may owe a lot of money, but they have 5 billion in cash as of last quarter's numbers. That's hardly bankrupt, even if they keep rolling over debt like car buyers roll over negative equity.
You're talking Chappy 7 and we're talking Chappy 11. If they filed Chappy 11, they could shed debt and cherry-pick assets to re-start as a profitable niche automaker. The company is headed for restructuring unless a bunch of very low probability scenarios occur. If it restructures, it is likely to take Etron down in the process, but the sooner it restructures, the better off it will be.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:48 PM   #1278
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Certain people are definitely thinking filing for bankruptcy = doors shut when we’re (you) clearly are discussing debt restructuring. Tesla does have a tremendous amount of debt liabilities. Restructuring that debt would give them a **** load of free cash flow and allow scalability to explode. However, certain egos won’t allow that to happen even though it would be the best option for the company short, medium and long term.

And figure out how to dump solar city
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Old 08-27-2019, 01:35 PM   #1279
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If they filed for Chapter 11 it would be a big blow to their reputation. Most people don't understand the difference, as has already been mentioned. If people hear anything about bankruptcy, there will be a panic and people would stop buying their cars.

And as I've said before, if Elon is gone, Tesla dies or more likely gets absorbed quickly. It's only held together as an independent company by him. SpaceX is different.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:09 PM   #1280
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Yeah I thought the same about Elon bowing out of operations to be a board type person hurting Tesla’s chances of success, but now it’s clear he has been the cause of his own misery. So it’s a toss up who or what will kill the company sooner. I think the tide is turning on the reason people keep investing in TSLA and Tesla cars. But the chances of Tesla being sold to the highest bidder and parceled off is almost assured if Musk steps down. And if happens he stands to gain ridiculous money. Musk can’t lose. Musk haters will always lose. Suck it losers.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:26 PM   #1281
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If they filed for Chapter 11 it would be a big blow to their reputation. Most people don't understand the difference, as has already been mentioned. If people hear anything about bankruptcy, there will be a panic and people would stop buying their cars.

And as I've said before, if Elon is gone, Tesla dies or more likely gets absorbed quickly. It's only held together as an independent company by him. SpaceX is different.
Tesla wouldnít die without Elon, this is just ridiculous. Heís a mouthpiece for the company and thatís about it. Elon could very well step down, remain on the board and the company wouldnít be sold. He does have majority stake in the company.

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Yeah I thought the same about Elon bowing out of operations to be a board type person hurting Teslaís chances of success, but now itís clear he has been the cause of his own misery. So itís a toss up who or what will kill the company sooner. I think the tide is turning on the reason people keep investing in TSLA and Tesla cars. But the chances of Tesla being sold to the highest bidder and parceled off is almost assured if Musk steps down. And if happens he stands to gain ridiculous money. Musk canít lose. Musk haters will always lose. Suck it losers.
See my point above. Elon could step down and still control if the company is sold off especially if he retained a board seat which he likely would. Donít forget, he has family with board seats, and a whole bunch of cronies that occupy the rest with the exception of maybe 1 or 2. Tesla will only get sold off or sold in pieces if itís facing near immediate insolvency.

If I were a betting man, Iíd place money that the large autos will solicit offers to buy when A) It restructures the debt or B) recession happens and value of the stock tanks and faces severe financial hardship.

Those are my guesses. I could likely be very wrong but at this point, itís all a guessing game.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:34 PM   #1282
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Musk haters will always lose. Suck it losers.
Silence infidel! I will smack your face with a garbage bag full of his cash moneys - the fresh ones I just harvested from him today
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:05 PM   #1283
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Tesla wouldn’t die without Elon, this is just ridiculous. He’s a mouthpiece for the company and that’s about it. Elon could very well step down, remain on the board and the company wouldn’t be sold. He does have majority stake in the company.
Totally disagree with this sentiment.

Telsa is where they are because Elon has pie-in-the-sky ideas that break the mold. Absolutely no other person would be able to step in charge of this company and direct it the way Elon has. They'd direct it to be just another ho-hum, vanilla car manufacturer that make investors happy. Elon comes up with bat**** crazy ideas and implements them in some way. 15 years ago, what Elon envisioned was thought to be completely impossible. And while he may not have achieved everything that he wanted, in the timelines he set out, he has moved the bar so far for vehicles it's not even funny. Without Tesla, the Leaf probably wouldn't even exist. It takes a person with this type of mentality to push the limits. Elon steps down and someone like Tom Doll steps in, and Tesla will be bowled over by literally every other car manufacturer. Period.

Like him or not. Invest or buy his products or not. It doesn't matter. People are buying into the vision, not the financials. They buy into Elon's charisma, not his business savvy. Akin to the reason our president is in office... not because he's the best person for the job, but because he's the personality that people wanted to hear. Ready to say things that move the bar in one way or another, for better or worse. He is just a spokesman, but without the ability to give direction, he is nothing.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:17 PM   #1284
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Totally disagree with this sentiment.

Telsa is where they are because Elon has pie-in-the-sky ideas that break the mold. Absolutely no other person would be able to step in charge of this company and direct it the way Elon has. They'd direct it to be just another ho-hum, vanilla car manufacturer that make investors happy. Elon comes up with bat**** crazy ideas and implements them in some way. 15 years ago, what Elon envisioned was thought to be completely impossible. And while he may not have achieved everything that he wanted, in the timelines he set out, he has moved the bar so far for vehicles it's not even funny. Without Tesla, the Leaf probably wouldn't even exist. It takes a person with this type of mentality to push the limits. Elon steps down and someone like Tom Doll steps in, and Tesla will be bowled over by literally every other car manufacturer. Period.

Like him or not. Invest or buy his products or not. It doesn't matter. People are buying into the vision, not the financials. They buy into Elon's charisma, not his business savvy. Akin to the reason our president is in office... not because he's the best person for the job, but because he's the personality that people wanted to hear. Ready to say things that move the bar in one way or another, for better or worse. He is just a spokesman, but without the ability to give direction, he is nothing.
Ho-lee-sheite! 1+1 is now 34
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:45 PM   #1285
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what are the bonds at? Those give you a very good indicator of if Ch. 11 is on it's way or not. Granted I'm now 10 years removed from the space, but I've got 20 Chap 11s with another 20 restructures on my resume - with over half in the auto space.

The cracks are there, but if things stay constant (aka no recession) Tesla is closer to being a stressed company vs. Ch. 11.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:06 PM   #1286
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Ho-lee-sheite! 1+1 is now 34
prove me wrong.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:16 PM   #1287
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Totally disagree with this sentiment.

Telsa is where they are because Elon has pie-in-the-sky ideas that break the mold. Absolutely no other person would be able to step in charge of this company and direct it the way Elon has. They'd direct it to be just another ho-hum, vanilla car manufacturer that make investors happy. Elon comes up with bat**** crazy ideas and implements them in some way. 15 years ago, what Elon envisioned was thought to be completely impossible. And while he may not have achieved everything that he wanted, in the timelines he set out, he has moved the bar so far for vehicles it's not even funny. Without Tesla, the Leaf probably wouldn't even exist. It takes a person with this type of mentality to push the limits. Elon steps down and someone like Tom Doll steps in, and Tesla will be bowled over by literally every other car manufacturer. Period.

Like him or not. Invest or buy his products or not. It doesn't matter. People are buying into the vision, not the financials. They buy into Elon's charisma, not his business savvy. Akin to the reason our president is in office... not because he's the best person for the job, but because he's the personality that people wanted to hear. Ready to say things that move the bar in one way or another, for better or worse. He is just a spokesman, but without the ability to give direction, he is nothing.
They said the same thing about Apple when Steve Jobs died. Yes, On got them to where they are now, it doesnít mean he is needed to run day to day operations to keep it going forward. Him stepping down as either the CEO and remaining a board member and visionary or hiring someone to be the day to day person to run it (COO) would have no real world negative impact on the company.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:24 PM   #1288
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Tesla wouldnít die without Elon, this is just ridiculous. Heís a mouthpiece for the company and thatís about it. Elon could very well step down, remain on the board and the company wouldnít be sold. He does have majority stake in the company.



See my point above. Elon could step down and still control if the company is sold off especially if he retained a board seat which he likely would. Donít forget, he has family with board seats, and a whole bunch of cronies that occupy the rest with the exception of maybe 1 or 2. Tesla will only get sold off or sold in pieces if itís facing near immediate insolvency.

If I were a betting man, Iíd place money that the large autos will solicit offers to buy when A) It restructures the debt or B) recession happens and value of the stock tanks and faces severe financial hardship.

Those are my guesses. I could likely be very wrong but at this point, itís all a guessing game.


I wonder if Tesla would get bail out by the government if something happens?
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:26 PM   #1289
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They said the same thing about Apple when Steve Jobs died. Yes, On got them to where they are now, it doesn’t mean he is needed to run day to day operations to keep it going forward. Him stepping down as either the CEO and remaining a board member and visionary or hiring someone to be the day to day person to run it (COO) would have no real world negative impact on the company.
Apple is stagnant. They sell product, but not because they're innovating, but because Jobs reeled people into their way and they can't go back. Apple is constantly playing catch-up with its competitors, not a pioneer at all. Apple watch was what, 3 years behind Samsung? What innovative product has apple come out with since Job's death? Nothing. Nothing at all. People buy into the culture, not the product. Without Musk, Tesla would be the same. Yes, people would buy the cars because Musk built a brand. But other manufacturers will beat them to the punch, every time. Tesla will start to respond, rather than lead. And that's fine for investors who want returns with no risk. But some other company will step up with another charismatic leader and steal their thunder, turning them into a ho-hum brand with average stock returns.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:26 PM   #1290
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prove me wrong.
So, if you have an apple in each hand, how many apples do you have?
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:27 PM   #1291
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They said the same thing about Apple when Steve Jobs died. Yes, On got them to where they are now, it doesnít mean he is needed to run day to day operations to keep it going forward. Him stepping down as either the CEO and remaining a board member and visionary or hiring someone to be the day to day person to run it (COO) would have no real world negative impact on the company.
So much, this. Elon did not design or build any of these things. He is just the big meat sack with money and a loud intoxicated mouth.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:31 PM   #1292
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So, if you have an apple in each hand, how many apples do you have?
Infinite. Take the seeds and plant them.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:33 PM   #1293
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Infinite. Take the seeds and plant them.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:51 PM   #1294
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I don't think Musk needs to do any more as a mouthpiece OR as a operations point man. He built that brand far beyond what anyone else could have. Give him props and let him profit so he can live out his days swimming in the DMT cosmos waaaay south of the border.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:08 PM   #1295
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Apple is stagnant. They sell product, but not because they're innovating, but because Jobs reeled people into their way and they can't go back. Apple is constantly playing catch-up with its competitors, not a pioneer at all. Apple watch was what, 3 years behind Samsung? What innovative product has apple come out with since Job's death? Nothing. Nothing at all. People buy into the culture, not the product. Without Musk, Tesla would be the same. Yes, people would buy the cars because Musk built a brand. But other manufacturers will beat them to the punch, every time. Tesla will start to respond, rather than lead. And that's fine for investors who want returns with no risk. But some other company will step up with another charismatic leader and steal their thunder, turning them into a ho-hum brand with average stock returns.
The company has had below average stock returns for 2 years. Itís underscored all major indexes and itís been stuck in a channel.

Iím not sure if youíre choosing to ignore or failing to see that I keep mentioning Elon staying on as visionary and board member. Elon knows dick about actual business, financials, costs etc as we can clearly see by fluctuations in price, change in manufacturing etc etc. Tesla would not stale or go backwards because someone took over the day to day operations while Elon is still visionary.

You mention people buying into the culture and not the product. Are you relating this directly to Apple or to all businesses?
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:19 PM   #1296
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The company has had below average stock returns for 2 years. It’s underscored all major indexes and it’s been stuck in a channel.

I’m not sure if you’re choosing to ignore or failing to see that I keep mentioning Elon staying on as visionary and board member. Elon knows dick about actual business, financials, costs etc as we can clearly see by fluctuations in price, change in manufacturing etc etc. Tesla would not stale or go backwards because someone took over the day to day operations while Elon is still visionary.

You mention people buying into the culture and not the product. Are you relating this directly to Apple or to all businesses?
Right... Elon doesn't care about the stock performance, nor should he. Companies that listen to their shareholders turn into vanilla. Safer. Boring. That's not Tesla. At least not right now.

I hear what you're saying about him staying on as a "visionary and board member", but that's all he is right now anyway. He's a figure head. Guaranteed if he "stepped down" the companies stock would TANK. The stock is propped up with charisma.

With regards to buying into the "culture", yes, I was referring to Apple. I was also referring to Tesla because they have built a similar "cult" type of brand. All brands do it to some extent, but some have created a true cult. Apple created a cult. So has Tesla. So has Harley Davidson. So has Ikea.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:38 PM   #1297
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Right... Elon doesn't care about the stock performance, nor should he. Companies that listen to their shareholders turn into vanilla. Safer. Boring. That's not Tesla. At least not right now.

I hear what you're saying about him staying on as a "visionary and board member", but that's all he is right now anyway. He's a figure head. Guaranteed if he "stepped down" the companies stock would TANK. The stock is propped up with charisma.

With regards to buying into the "culture", yes, I was referring to Apple. I was also referring to Tesla because they have built a similar "cult" type of brand. All brands do it to some extent, but some have created a true cult. Apple created a cult. So has Tesla. So has Harley Davidson. So has Ikea.
Jesuscristo. The ONLY thing he cares about is the stock price. Did you think he was making cars, solar panels, rockets, tunnels, etc.? No, he is raking taxpayer funds and selling stock. I could go point by point but it's like explaining the sky is blue and water is wet.

Cutting to the chase, if Etron's mere existence in the business sphere isn't insulting to you, then you are either not very good at whatever it is that you do, or you are a spineless sheep, devoid of integrity. Further, if you actually revere him, then you are also lacking intelligence, and are a willing concubine to the whims of society.
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:01 PM   #1298
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Jesuscristo. The ONLY thing he cares about is the stock price. Did you think he was making cars, solar panels, rockets, tunnels, etc.? No, he is raking taxpayer funds and selling stock. I could go point by point but it's like explaining the sky is blue and water is wet.

Cutting to the chase, if Etron's mere existence in the business sphere isn't insulting to you, then you are either not very good at whatever it is that you do, or you are a spineless sheep, devoid of integrity. Further, if you actually revere him, then you are also lacking intelligence, and are a willing concubine to the whims of society.


Really, no need to step all the way down to personal insults.

I have zero stake in this game. Just giving an outsiders perspective, because it seems to be a bit of a circle-jerk in here...
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:42 PM   #1299
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So much, this. Elon did not design or build any of these things. He is just the big meat sack with money and a loud intoxicated mouth.
and you are? How do you know he hasn't design anything? or had any design input? or come up with any solutions to problems they have?

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I don't think Musk needs to do any more as a mouthpiece OR as a operations point man. He built that brand far beyond what anyone else could have. Give him props and let him profit so he can live out his days swimming in the DMT cosmos waaaay south of the border.
Elon had tons of money in his 20's... If you have seen any on of his interviews you will know he would die of boredom seating in a tropical beach

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The company has had below average stock returns for 2 years. It’s underscored all major indexes and it’s been stuck in a channel.

I’m not sure if you’re choosing to ignore or failing to see that I keep mentioning Elon staying on as visionary and board member. Elon knows dick about actual business, financials, costs etc as we can clearly see by fluctuations in price, change in manufacturing etc etc. Tesla would not stale or go backwards because someone took over the day to day operations while Elon is still visionary.

You mention people buying into the culture and not the product. Are you relating this directly to Apple or to all businesses?
The stock is down probably $100 bucks because of Elon but the rest is just stock manipulation.... It is short term. He is been quiet for a while. I think Tesla would be a few years behind if it were not for him; he pushes he people hard and get rids of people that cannot keep up.
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:53 PM   #1300
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Jesuscristo. The ONLY thing he cares about is the stock price. Did you think he was making cars, solar panels, rockets, tunnels, etc.? No, he is raking taxpayer funds and selling stock. I could go point by point but it's like explaining the sky is blue and water is wet.

Cutting to the chase, if Etron's mere existence in the business sphere isn't insulting to you, then you are either not very good at whatever it is that you do, or you are a spineless sheep, devoid of integrity. Further, if you actually revere him, then you are also lacking intelligence, and are a willing concubine to the whims of society.
No way man. That guy could been retire 20 years ago. There is no other CEO as hard worker as Musk that knows their product technically in and out. He cares about all his project and I truly believe he thinks he is making a difference in the world even if other people thing he is not.
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