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Old 10-08-2019, 03:20 PM   #1601
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Inherently, the best selling is the most common, the most vanilla...

Trucks still outsell all...
Ford almost sold more F150s alone than the top 3 combined
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:12 PM   #1602
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Inherently, the best selling is the most common, the most vanilla...

Trucks still outsell all...
Will never understand why everyone wants to be the same. Too many fail under the pressure to be the same, to be mainstream, like clones almost.
I guess to some people Arby's or Chick-Fil-A is an exciting time.
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:16 PM   #1603
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Will never understand why everyone wants to be the same. Too many fail under the pressure to be the same, to be mainstream, like clones almost.
I guess to some people Arby's or Chick-Fil-A is an exciting time.
I think itís just the vast majority care little about the car so long as it meets their needs / wants and price. Us millennials are too busy spending every penny and credit card we have on festivals, travel, and ďexperiencesĒ to afford a car thatís not basic as ****.

Yes, Iím a millennial but Iím an ďelder millennialĒ so Iím exempt
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:27 PM   #1604
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For many cars are like a washer or dryer, it just needs to work, without issue and need as little repairs as possible.

Thanks guys for the clarification on taxes. I thought that would be the case but wasn't sure.

I looked at a Kona Electric while test driving and it was $43k, with $7,500 it makes it a bit better. Still seeing that sticker must make it a hard sell.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:26 PM   #1605
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Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
For many cars are like a washer or dryer, it just needs to work, without issue and need as little repairs as possible.

Thanks guys for the clarification on taxes. I thought that would be the case but wasn't sure.

I looked at a Kona Electric while test driving and it was $43k, with $7,500 it makes it a bit better. Still seeing that sticker must make it a hard sell.
Not with those 7 year loans!

Funny how I can get a lower interest rate if I stretch my loan out longer rather than shorter.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:28 PM   #1606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
For many cars are like a washer or dryer, it just needs to work, without issue and need as little repairs as possible.

Thanks guys for the clarification on taxes. I thought that would be the case but wasn't sure.

I looked at a Kona Electric while test driving and it was $43k, with $7,500 it makes it a bit better. Still seeing that sticker must make it a hard sell.
Being FWD makes it hard to sell want.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:37 PM   #1607
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Last year Ford sold almost a million F150's. Chevy sold almost 600K Silverados, and Dodge sold almost 550K Rams. That's over 2 million vehicles that are nearly identical sold in 1 year. Want to talk about people needing to "fit in" to their demographic, and all being "McSame" let's talk about pickup truck buyers...

And at least around here, it's not millennials who drive pickup trucks... Most of them show up all nice and shiny to HD on the weekends and are loaded up with less stuff than I throw in the back of my outback.

Curious to see what demographic buys these new electric pickups bound to hit the market at some point soon.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:44 PM   #1608
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Last year Ford sold almost a million F150's. Chevy sold almost 600K Silverados, and Dodge sold almost 550K Rams. That's over 2 million vehicles that are nearly identical sold in 1 year. Want to talk about people needing to "fit in" to their demographic, and all being "McSame" let's talk about pickup truck buyers...

And at least around here, it's not millennials who drive pickup trucks...
IMO: The F150 is a damn good vehicle. For a daily driver, itís been my best vehicle. Out here in Salt Lake / Utah, most people who have a truck have a boat, dirt bikes / quads, snowmobiles, hunt, etc so at least it gets used purposefully. The F150 also does a ton in fleet vehicle sales so that helps a lot.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:48 AM   #1609
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Not with those 7 year loans!

Funny how I can get a lower interest rate if I stretch my loan out longer rather than shorter.
Inverted yield curve bruh
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:09 AM   #1610
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
IMO: The F150 is a damn good vehicle. For a daily driver, itís been my best vehicle. Out here in Salt Lake / Utah, most people who have a truck have a boat, dirt bikes / quads, snowmobiles, hunt, etc so at least it gets used purposefully. The F150 also does a ton in fleet vehicle sales so that helps a lot.
This is a true statement. AN F150 is a great family car. It can do anything a family needs it to do. Allows the user to go anywhere, do anything, carry anything. It is a fantastic every day driver. I would have NEVER thought I would have said that before I owned my King Ranch. But it is a stellar driving vehicle. I just hated parking it. While I miss the room the KR gave me. The Ridgeline offers me all the capability I need and it drives like an accord.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:13 PM   #1611
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This is a true statement. AN F150 is a great family car. It can do anything a family needs it to do. Allows the user to go anywhere, do anything, carry anything. It is a fantastic every day driver. I would have NEVER thought I would have said that before I owned my King Ranch. But it is a stellar driving vehicle. I just hated parking it. While I miss the room the KR gave me. The Ridgeline offers me all the capability I need and it drives like an accord.
I think I paid $33k for my 2017 F150 XLT Super crew cab with the 2.7lt eco boost, sport package, 302a, trailer package, and had the seats reupholstered in the cat skinz leather (amazing leather btw). Only issue Iíve had so far is within the first 1500 miles or so, the vacuum hose going to the waste gate exploded. Apparently this was an issue and a TSB was issued, had the car back same day I dropped it off.

Truck now has 46,000 and it just barely started to do the white smoke on startup due to carbon buildup on the valves. Thankfully I bought the extended warranty as Iím sure they will either replace or rebuild the head sooner rather than later. If it wasnít for my job, Iíd probably consider a ridgeline. My bed is scratched to **** (not lined) from all the stuff Iíve thrown back there. Winter time I can average 24 miles on the freeway and get about 20 or so in city. Pretty impressed with that.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:24 PM   #1612
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Tesla summon seems like a great feature especially in bad weather but are they pushing technology past current ability ? I'll let Mr Aussie with migratory hair explain as he's so well with words
has anyone used this to report ?
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...t+summon++fail
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:27 PM   #1613
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Tesla summon seems like a great feature especially in bad weather but are they pushing technology past current ability ? I'll let Mr Aussie with migratory hair explain as he's so well with words
https://youtu.be/SCdgZGZa3IU?t=3
has anyone used this to report ?
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...t+summon++fail
Consumer Reports did a pretty good analysis on it. Definitely seems like a gimmick and personally gives me real doubts about their timeline to full autonomous driving even more so than it already did.


https://www.consumerreports.org/auto...arketing-hype/
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:38 PM   #1614
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Not with those 7 year loans!

Funny how I can get a lower interest rate if I stretch my loan out longer rather than shorter.
I checked a couple of credit unions since I'll be buying in the near future and it was a lower rate the shorter the term. Half the time a manufacturer is running a low interest or no interest event so doesn't always matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Being FWD makes it hard to sell want.
Majority of the population doesn't want or need RWD/AWD.

The Kona at least is in a category that people are interested in (small CUV). The thing is there is less than $3,000 difference between a Palisade Limited AWD and the Kona Electric Ultimate (not counting the tax credit). Most will get a Sante Fe Ultimate for $30k (sticker of $37k) or the Palisade.

Chrysler with the PHEV Pacifica made more sense as with tax credit the PHEV version was cheaper or similar priced when optioned the same as its gasoline counterpart.

I'll be curious once VW, Ford and others come out with their dedicated BEV platforms to see how the sales landscape changes.

Tesla is still seen as a luxury vehicle and the poster child (good and bad) for autonomy. Is it because of this Apple like Aura that they do so well and will main line manufacturers struggle or will the mainline be able to do it cheaper and offer incentives that draw people in?

Either way the next 20+ years is going to be really interesting for transportation. Will we achieve Red Barchetta?
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:43 PM   #1615
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Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
I checked a couple of credit unions since I'll be buying in the near future and it was a lower rate the shorter the term. Half the time a manufacturer is running a low interest or no interest event so doesn't always matter.



Majority of the population doesn't want or need RWD/AWD.

The Kona at least is in a category that people are interested in (small CUV). The thing is there is less than $3,000 difference between a Palisade Limited AWD and the Kona Electric Ultimate (not counting the tax credit). Most will get a Sante Fe Ultimate for $30k (sticker of $37k) or the Palisade.

Chrysler with the PHEV Pacifica made more sense as with tax credit the PHEV version was cheaper or similar priced when optioned the same as its gasoline counterpart.

I'll be curious once VW, Ford and others come out with their dedicated BEV platforms to see how the sales landscape changes.

Tesla is still seen as a luxury vehicle and the poster child (good and bad) for autonomy. Is it because of this Apple like Aura that they do so well and will main line manufacturers struggle or will the mainline be able to do it cheaper and offer incentives that draw people in?

Either way the next 20+ years is going to be really interesting for transportation. Will we achieve Red Barchetta?
Are you talking new or used? I refinance my truck simply for the lower rate and I was offered like .4% lower with a 6 year loan. I did the 6 year but plan to pay off the rest of the truck by spring / early summer of next year regardless.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:54 PM   #1616
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I think I paid $33k for my 2017 F150 XLT Super crew cab with the 2.7lt eco boost, sport package, 302a, trailer package, and had the seats reupholstered in the cat skinz leather (amazing leather btw). Only issue Iíve had so far is within the first 1500 miles or so, the vacuum hose going to the waste gate exploded. Apparently this was an issue and a TSB was issued, had the car back same day I dropped it off.

Truck now has 46,000 and it just barely started to do the white smoke on startup due to carbon buildup on the valves. Thankfully I bought the extended warranty as Iím sure they will either replace or rebuild the head sooner rather than later. If it wasnít for my job, Iíd probably consider a ridgeline. My bed is scratched to **** (not lined) from all the stuff Iíve thrown back there. Winter time I can average 24 miles on the freeway and get about 20 or so in city. Pretty impressed with that.
I paid 33k on the Ridgeline I just bought, the RTL-AWD trim as I wanted to skip the nannies and have the ability to gut the headunit and audio system, etc. It's going into the shop next week for Pioneer wireless CarPlay, 5 channel amp, speakers/sub replacement and an alarm/remote start even though it's remote start from the factory but I can't do that a mile or more away. Afternarket I can manage from anywhere in the world, handy for a break in attempt while on vacation. So 33k for a F150 is a damn good deal. I looked at used versions of the truck and it holds value well so for me it was no good buying used seeing that the 2019 RTL trim got the moonroof and powered rear sliding glass and the 2017/2018 did not so it was a no brainer. I had my sampling of Ford's dealer network so I get it. I would have one too if it was a work vehicle. Once it's all your own dime, the RL makes much more sense unless you need heavy towing capability. There is only one truck on the market that actually handles well. Did not want to buy yet but 2020 has ADAS standard and would prevent my aftermarket plans.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:09 PM   #1617
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Default The Tesla Effect - Time to by a slightly use BMW, Audi or Mercedes!


"The Tesla Effect Is Making Luxury Cars Lose Value Faster Than Ever

A study from Capital One shows some of these luxury cars lost 30 percent of their value.

Everyone that follows car news knows Tesla has made a considerable impact on premium carmakers. Most of them are now developing fully electric sedans or SUVs just to have something to compete with the American EV manufacturer.

But how huge was this impact? Capital One, a company that deals with financing cars, has made a study and discovered it was so impressive it even deserved a proper name: The Tesla Effect.


The Tesla Effect Is Making Luxury Cars Lose Value Faster Than Ever
This phenomenon has a simple explanation. People that used to buy new cars from Mercedes-Benz, BMW, or Audi now want a Tesla. So they are trading in their vehicles from these brands to have their new EVs. But the demand for these brands has not increased.

If you are familiar with supply and demand laws, you already know what this means: severe devaluation of cars from these European luxury brands. To measure it, Capital One used the Manheim Market Report.

One of the largest auction companies in the world, Manheim is part of Cox Automotive, a company that recently announced an investment of $350 million in Rivian. We bet the large holding realized The Tesla Effect before its christening. And that it bets Rivian will have a similar performance.

Capital One says “a 2018 BMW 320i lost nearly 20% of its value, dropping from $37,700 to $30,700.” Calling that a drop is a euphemism. What about the 2016 Mercedes-Benz B-Class? In a single year, “the B-Class dropped from $18,500 to $13,250, nearly 30%.” The company says 22.2 percent of trade-ins for Tesla new cars are from the European luxury brands. Typically, that rate is only 10.9 percent.

The Tesla Effect Is Making Luxury Cars Lose Value Faster Than Ever
The Tesla Effect would be beneficial to used car buyers. They can now get luxury cars for much lower prices. For our readers, that is not precisely good news unless they already own an EV.

If they want to buy one, they will probably suffer The Tesla Effect. They are the ones that – as Capital One puts it – will “take a brutal hit in depreciation.” Consequently, they are the ones that will allow other people to buy a Mercedes or a BMW for the price of a Toyota Camry.


Capital One does not mention that, but this will inevitably affect non-premium cars. Anyone willing to sell a Camry will have to price it for much less. That will cause a chain reaction that will make all ICE vehicles feel what luxury cars are now having to put up with.

An interesting aspect of the study is the change in the perception of luxury. Rather than leather or equipment, it now relates to technology. Capital One defines it like this:

“Unlike the luxury cars listed above, nearly every Model 3 sold today has self-driving software that allows the car to automatically change lanes and even be summoned out of a garage or parking space. Luxury through a Tesla lens is in the car’s ability to take over some of the more boring aspects of driving.”

That puts into the right perspective why the Royal Mansour Palace Hotel plans to replace its Bentley shuttle units for the Model X. Did you realize why buying an EV is a wise choice? If not from an environmental point of view, from a financial one.

Source: Capital One

This article originally appeared on Inside EVs."

https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/201...sed-car-value/

Last edited by S2K; 10-09-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:02 PM   #1618
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^ a whole bunch of yawn.

It's just a new player in the market, and was a temporary effect, as can be seen by their own graph. A bunch of people who already own a luxury car traded it in for another shiny new luxury car? Why is this news?
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:17 PM   #1619
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^ a whole bunch of yawn.

It's just a new player in the market, and was a temporary effect, as can be seen by their own graph. A bunch of people who already own a luxury car traded it in for another shiny new luxury car? Why is this news?
Because it supports their bull **** narrative Pumpidy pump, even if easily disprovable garbage - drowns out truth and is reinforcement for the dumbest cult members.

Masterauto's Aussie guy was hilarious, and gave the uninformed a colorful appetizer of the more recent flares of the filthy dumpster fire that is Tesla.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:19 PM   #1620
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:19 PM   #1621
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^ a whole bunch of yawn.

It's just a new player in the market, and was a temporary effect, as can be seen by their own graph. A bunch of people who already own a luxury car traded it in for another shiny new luxury car? Why is this news?
What I think this is an indication of is that the transition from ICE to EV is consumer driven and not by regulations.

ICE's will start depreciating faster, which will make consumers stop buying them, leading to all car manufactures moving all their future investments into EV's.

With a model cycle of 5-7 years the transition to EV's will likely for all new cars be before 2030.

And the next 5 years will be a good time to by you dream ICE car as a keeper

For me this is the early indications of this, hence news, but I may be wrong.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:25 PM   #1622
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It's not clear to me whether the Model 3 will hold its value any better than other entry level luxury vehicles. I am just hoping it can manage to be less than 50% depreciation after 3 years, so I'm not upside down on my 72 month financing (yeah I did 72 months on a $50k car).
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:51 PM   #1623
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All cars depreciate, and so far EV's have depreciated more than SOME ICE cars. Technology ages horribly bad. The Teslas will age badly as more and more car makes enter the market. Now if they make a new model 3 and S (3.2 or S.2) with a realistic interior then they will rebound.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:55 PM   #1624
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It's not clear to me whether the Model 3 will hold its value any better than other entry level luxury vehicles. I am just hoping it can manage to be less than 50% depreciation after 3 years, so I'm not upside down on my 72 month financing (yeah I did 72 months on a $50k car).
I think that this is a "temporary effect" (as dwf137 called it), where Teslas will hold a higher resales value, until the rest can catch up (the once that will make the transition).

At this point I think Tesla is 3-5 years ahead of the market, so I think your timeframe is good for less then 50% depreciation.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:59 PM   #1625
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Originally Posted by S2K View Post
What I think this is an indication of is that the transition from ICE to EV is consumer driven and not by regulations.

ICE's will start depreciating faster, which will make consumers stop buying them, leading to all car manufactures moving all their future investments into EV's.

With a model cycle of 5-7 years the transition to EV's will likely for all new cars be before 2030.

And the next 5 years will be a good time to by you dream ICE car as a keeper

For me this is the early indications of this, hence news, but I may be wrong.
I don't know that I'd extrapolate this report that far... EV's are still a very small % of car sales. ICE cars will be around for a long time. Manufacturers are already starting to ramp up EV production and ramp down ICE production. Laws of supply and demand will keep manufacturers making the right ratio of cars, give or take a little lag time, but I don't see any pending doom for ICE car resale value... it'll just taper off over time.

I personally have no desire to buy a "keeper" ICE car. I'm happy to live in the present and embrace new technology.
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