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Old 09-04-2019, 12:29 AM   #51
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It's an STI that I'd spend $50k on.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejicon View Post
If this were to happen, you'd have 200 VERY unhappy campers in 2021
I doubt that, anyone buying that knows they're getting the last hurrah of the engine, platform, and whatever else for this generation. You have to expect that the following generation will be better than whatever was put out from the previous one, that's just typical of any product for the most part.

You will never remain at the top, unless of course you bought a 2004 STI which is better than every product they've sold so far since then...
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #53
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What with SGP, new turbo engines, new upscale models, and the onslaught of the competition... it would be a stroke of genius for Subaru to release an STi that brought shock and awe to the reviews.

It would put the spotlight on the brand. A brand good enough and worthy enough to deserve the spotlight. Sales would climb, and climb. A new image would emerge.

Imagine that.

Itís happened before. It worked. It would work again.
To quote the great Winston Wolf:

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Old 09-04-2019, 11:41 AM   #54
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To quote the great Winston Wolf:



We definitely read, and remember, different things...
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:22 AM   #55
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Solution for eyesight on MT?
https://bestcarweb.jp/feature/column/89755
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:26 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Goempie View Post
Solution for eyesight on MT?
https://bestcarweb.jp/feature/column/89755
They're saying the same thing that has been said here. Everyone else does it, why don't you? No excuse.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:53 PM   #57
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They're saying the same thing that has been said here. Everyone else does it, why don't you? No excuse.
Except the dude in this article says he thinks it's impossible to do EyeSight on MT. Maybe some other developed system?
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:16 PM   #58
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All they'd need is a hydraulic de-clutcher. Then it's software.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
All they'd need is a hydraulic de-clutcher. Then it's software.
exactly, its fairly simple.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:15 AM   #60
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Here news not WRX but Levorg. Seems like they are going to leave japanese eyesight system and go over to Autoliv. Like we saw on the mule. Also news over 1.8 DIT.
https://www.chubu-jihan.com/subaru/n...id=168&fref=gc
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:10 AM   #61
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exactly, its fairly simple.
If it were "that" simple.........
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:29 PM   #62
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If it were "that" simple.........
it is simple, there just isnt a market for it. the vast majority of people that want a manual trans dont want all the nannies.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:17 PM   #63
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it is simple, there just isnt a market for it. the vast majority of people that want a manual trans dont want all the nannies.
Subaru is forcing it on CVT buyers. Why not do that and "force" the MT buyers?
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:48 PM   #64
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Subaru is forcing it on CVT buyers. Why not do that and "force" the MT buyers?
im sure they will eventually, but if someone is buying a cvt they arent exactly a car person and are much more likely to want all the extra safety features. all it has to do is decouple the engine from the transmission. a simple linear actuator at the clutch fork can accomplish that. how many people walk into your dealership looking for a 6mt wrx and walk out because they cant get it with eyesight? do any even choose the cvt over the 6mt because of eyesight and no other reason?
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:17 PM   #65
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im sure they will eventually, but if someone is buying a cvt they arent exactly a car person and are much more likely to want all the extra safety features. all it has to do is decouple the engine from the transmission. a simple linear actuator at the clutch fork can accomplish that. how many people walk into your dealership looking for a 6mt wrx and walk out because they cant get it with eyesight? do any even choose the cvt over the 6mt because of eyesight and no other reason?
Very few.

I think it's more what EyeSight offers in driving experience. I am sure Subaru wants it the same in all their cars that have it. I also think it comes to safety. Disengaging your capability to drive the car in a emergency braking situation is not safe. Granted a MT driver is "more aware", I would argue that most would still not be aware enough to reengage a gear to move the car fast enough afterwards. I don't know how many on here have actually experienced Pre Collision Braking; but, it's not a soft, comfortable thing. And if it engages, 99% of the time, you were not paying enough attention and would have hit the obstacle(unless you are just driving "too" close to a car turning off) and that is going to make you double take it. Plus, like we've discussed, it's likely just the development costs of something they don't sell that many of. For what I gathered in all the SBR interviews, I personally believe Subaru is on track to eliminate MT from their lineup. Soon? Perhaps not; but, they can probably get away with not making EyeSight work with MT until the day they kill it. Cause the only ones left, I gather, will be the WRX/STI/BRZ. And we already know they killed the MT in Japan on the S4.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Very few.

I think it's more what EyeSight offers in driving experience. I am sure Subaru wants it the same in all their cars that have it. I also think it comes to safety. Disengaging your capability to drive the car in a emergency braking situation is not safe. Granted a MT driver is "more aware", I would argue that most would still not be aware enough to reengage a gear to move the car fast enough afterwards. I don't know how many on here have actually experienced Pre Collision Braking; but, it's not a soft, comfortable thing. And if it engages, 99% of the time, you were not paying enough attention and would have hit the obstacle(unless you are just driving "too" close to a car turning off) and that is going to make you double take it. Plus, like we've discussed, it's likely just the development costs of something they don't sell that many of. For what I gathered in all the SBR interviews, I personally believe Subaru is on track to eliminate MT from their lineup. Soon? Perhaps not; but, they can probably get away with not making EyeSight work with MT until the day they kill it. Cause the only ones left, I gather, will be the WRX/STI/BRZ. And we already know they killed the MT in Japan on the S4.
i agree with most of that. killing off the manual in the wrx/sti would hurt them pretty bad, especially if they only offer a cvt instead of a dct or planetary automatic. thats a lot of customers to abandon.
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:31 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Very few.

I think it's more what EyeSight offers in driving experience. I am sure Subaru wants it the same in all their cars that have it. I also think it comes to safety. Disengaging your capability to drive the car in a emergency braking situation is not safe. Granted a MT driver is "more aware", I would argue that most would still not be aware enough to reengage a gear to move the car fast enough afterwards. I don't know how many on here have actually experienced Pre Collision Braking; but, it's not a soft, comfortable thing. And if it engages, 99% of the time, you were not paying enough attention and would have hit the obstacle(unless you are just driving "too" close to a car turning off) and that is going to make you double take it. Plus, like we've discussed, it's likely just the development costs of something they don't sell that many of. For what I gathered in all the SBR interviews, I personally believe Subaru is on track to eliminate MT from their lineup. Soon? Perhaps not; but, they can probably get away with not making EyeSight work with MT until the day they kill it. Cause the only ones left, I gather, will be the WRX/STI/BRZ. And we already know they killed the MT in Japan on the S4.
I don't follow you on this, and what I do I disagree with.

Decoupling the engine/trans in an emergency braking scenario in a CVT car is no different... the engine fuel is cut and the brakes applied. You still have brakes and steering. If your collision is imminent whatcha gonna do? Power away??

Even there it would be no different... mash the gas and the clutch is reactivated and the engine can provide power to the wheels. Samey samey.

It's the imminent impact scenario where the danger lies, and EyeSight's full suite of controls would be identical in both cases. There is no argument against ES in an STi other than "people don't like it." There's lots of people who don't like ES, so they turn it off. Traction control? Turn it off. Etc. etc.

It almost has to happen if they want to continue bragging about their SAFETY Record and future aims. There is no viable argument against that. They could make a Performance Mode that took care of the details.

Doing so will also open the door to more sales. Because I'm one of those who wanted a MT Limited WRX I drooled over... but without EyeSight it was voted out by my consideration for my wife and her preference for the most safety she could get. So I went to another dealership and ordered a CVT '16 WRX with ES etc. She also knows my history of modding and had become a bit tired of it (to say the least ). I cannot believe I'm the only one. Because who wants to admit being whipped, eh?
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Old 09-06-2019, 08:04 PM   #68
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I'm talking about the moment after Pre Collision Braking activates, for a CVT, you are still in "gear" and can easily just pull away. Perhaps to avoid getting rear ended. A car not in gear is a sitting target. With the way people talk about a MT version, it would simply take it out of gear. Are you saying the cars that have a MT and this type system can disengage and then RE-engage the clutch? Or that would something "simple" to accomplish? If so, then I'd agree; but, it goes back to my statement......If it were that simple......Subaru would have done it so they can claim TSP+ on EVERY model/trim they make. They can't add + to the STI or BRZ until they have Pre Collision Braking added.
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Old 09-06-2019, 08:22 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I'm talking about the moment after Pre Collision Braking activates, for a CVT, you are still in "gear" and can easily just pull away. Perhaps to avoid getting rear ended. A car not in gear is a sitting target. With the way people talk about a MT version, it would simply take it out of gear. Are you saying the cars that have a MT and this type system can disengage and then RE-engage the clutch? Or that would something "simple" to accomplish? If so, then I'd agree; but, it goes back to my statement......If it were that simple......Subaru would have done it so they can claim TSP+ on EVERY model/trim they make. They can't add + to the STI or BRZ until they have Pre Collision Braking added.
You do understand what a hydraulic declutcher would do, right? A solenoid operated hydraulic unit that emulates what the clutch does? On. Off. Instantly. The car's still in gear, just the clutch is pushed in... exactly what's needed. And just like other ES systems, the engine is cut... not off. So in both cases, mash the gas and go... only in the MT the clutch is reingaged an instant before the throttle works, well before human reaction times to do the same.

No different from how ES systems treat the brakes.

It IS simple, Justy.
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Old 09-06-2019, 08:29 PM   #70
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Ummmm.... Just because someone gets a CVT does NOT mean they aren't a car person. If there's no car to be had, then why not CVT? Or does someone know of a turbo AWD hatch with a manual for under $40k that's currently in production that I'm just not aware of?
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:00 PM   #71
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Ummmm.... Just because someone gets a CVT does NOT mean they aren't a car person. If there's no car to be had, then why not CVT? Or does someone know of a turbo AWD hatch with a manual for under $40k that's currently in production that I'm just not aware of?
golf r.
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Old 09-06-2019, 10:12 PM   #72
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golf r.
Technically not currently offered for 2020, though VW produced a ton prior to stopping production in Germany. A 2019 golf r with the long warranty would be hard for me to pass up.

Sure the awd isnít as ďrealĒ as the STIís but it has a ton going for it. If I could swing a $40k car right now, Iíd get a golf r before all the 2019s are gone.
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:59 AM   #73
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You do understand what a hydraulic declutcher would do, right? A solenoid operated hydraulic unit that emulates what the clutch does? On. Off. Instantly. The car's still in gear, just the clutch is pushed in... exactly what's needed. And just like other ES systems, the engine is cut... not off. So in both cases, mash the gas and go... only in the MT the clutch is reingaged an instant before the throttle works, well before human reaction times to do the same.

No different from how ES systems treat the brakes.

It IS simple, Justy.

Nope. Didn't know what that was. Thanks for the lesson. Now, go let Subaru know how "simple" it is.
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:32 AM   #74
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Nope. Didn't know what that was. Thanks for the lesson. Now, go let Subaru know how "simple" it is.
They know. Always have.
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:22 AM   #75
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That is a completely wrong statement. A clutch decoupler is simple and easy. So what does that get you? Great, you have disengaged the engine so you can do the brakes. Now what do you do with what gear you are in? The system will not work with the MT because there is no automation on gear selection. You have to be able to down shift based on how much braking you are doing to be able to reengage in the right gear. Reengaging in the wrong gear will just stall and cause more problems.

Peace,

Greg
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