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Old 08-13-2016, 03:22 AM   #26
Krang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrocco88 View Post
I can't see the graph. How bought some pics of the engine bay and turbo area?
I'l grab some tomorrow for sure.
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Old 08-13-2016, 11:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krang View Post
On a local Mustang dyno so I could get a baseline where I'm at now.

TQ is down, not sure why..

Still have 300ftlbs right around 3500rpm, pull was made in third gear again for comparative results.

http://i.imgur.com/Lxnn1p4l.jpg

I failed in taking the picture and didn't get the values on the sides of the graph, you can figure it out if you look at it long enough though.
Peak TQ around 4.2K?
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Old 08-13-2016, 06:07 PM   #28
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Perhaps you can make some dyno run at 4th gear to compare with other EFRs?
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
Peak TQ around 4.2K?

You are pushing some agenda and ignoring what is being claimed. I am in no way trying to achieve peak torque as soon as possible, I can't work with the car if I have a huge torque spike as it will become unsettled. I'm sure if I wanted to it could hit a lot earlier, but that's not the point of the tune.

The claim is when 300wtq happens, let's focus on that.
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by pb2004 View Post
Perhaps you can make some dyno run at 4th gear to compare with other EFRs?

I had it on the dyno yesterday and could have done that but I didn't even think about it, I should have done that!
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Krang View Post
You are pushing some agenda and ignoring what is being claimed. I am in no way trying to achieve peak torque as soon as possible, I can't work with the car if I have a huge torque spike as it will become unsettled. I'm sure if I wanted to it could hit a lot earlier, but that's not the point of the tune.

The claim is when 300wtq happens, let's focus on that.
When peak tq occurs gives a good indicator of how your setup is spooling. I'm not concerned about how much tq you are achieving but when. Also, you're not going to have fast spool and late peak tq. That's not how it works.

Last edited by Fierysun; 08-13-2016 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 08-14-2016, 01:55 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
When peak tq occurs gives a good indicator of how your setup is spooling. I'm not concerned about how much tq you are achieving but when. Also, you're not going to have fast spool and late peak tq. That's not how it works.
I'm going for the most linear and flat torque curve I can get. Because it is so flat I'm absolutely leaving power on the table at this point, I could easily be running more boost.

Let me rephrase, the tune is specifically not shooting for the soonest possible boost / peak torque. I run in second gear mostly on my courses, if I went for the wall of torque I'm sure this turbo could make I would consistently end up sideways, or backwards, until I get my tires sorted. I'm sorry, I just don't think its a good comparison to make at this time. I point out the 300tq delta because at that point we are still building boost as fast as possible, so I feel it is a good data point to look at.

Once I get the AWIC in and a few other small items buttoned up I will get it back on the dyno and during the re-tune we will go for your goals in the name of data, we will see how it turns out. Speaking with my tuner he predicts picking up 15-20whp with the retune and slightly faster spool because I'm ditching the front mount. I guess we will see!
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:09 PM   #33
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You did it! I'm running around 25 psi on this, and DESTROYED an RS5 from a roll, with a 300 lb passenger. The equal length header is amazing for this too.
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:42 PM   #34
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Once I get the new intercooler setup and a few other kinks worked out I will be going back and push it bigtime. Looking at early October for the retune right now. Depending on how things look I might actually go smaller, to the 6258, but right now I think I should be solid full boost @ 3500 which will be plenty fast for my purposes.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:47 PM   #35
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Once I get the new intercooler setup and a few other kinks worked out I will be going back and push it bigtime. Looking at early October for the retune right now. Depending on how things look I might actually go smaller, to the 6258, but right now I think I should be solid full boost @ 3500 which will be plenty fast for my purposes.
That would be very interesting of what 6258 can do paired with EJ257 and that's what I also considered (and still consider). Unfortunately there are no dyno charts for such config on pump gas (or at least I couldn't find any) - could be either low end monster or similar to 6758. Wish I could see this
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Krang View Post
I'm going for the most linear and flat torque curve I can get. Because it is so flat I'm absolutely leaving power on the table at this point, I could easily be running more boost.

Let me rephrase, the tune is specifically not shooting for the soonest possible boost / peak torque. I run in second gear mostly on my courses, if I went for the wall of torque I'm sure this turbo could make I would consistently end up sideways, or backwards, until I get my tires sorted. I'm sorry, I just don't think its a good comparison to make at this time. I point out the 300tq delta because at that point we are still building boost as fast as possible, so I feel it is a good data point to look at.

Once I get the AWIC in and a few other small items buttoned up I will get it back on the dyno and during the re-tune we will go for your goals in the name of data, we will see how it turns out. Speaking with my tuner he predicts picking up 15-20whp with the retune and slightly faster spool because I'm ditching the front mount. I guess we will see!

This!!! Welcome to the club, no need to make more "useless" low end torque
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:29 PM   #37
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When peak tq occurs gives a good indicator of how your setup is spooling. I'm not concerned about how much tq you are achieving but when. Also, you're not going to have fast spool and late peak tq. That's not how it works.
Not really... There is no time component to a dyno graph and it is load and gear based on an abnormal condition that is never met while actually driving...
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:55 PM   #38
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Not really... There is no time component to a dyno graph and it is load and gear based on an abnormal condition that is never met while actually driving...
The time is when (not what time it is...lol) in the RPM band does peak tq occur, which "does" give a good indicator of when full boost is being achieved, especially if you are comparing different peoples setup with one another.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:57 PM   #39
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This!!! Welcome to the club, no need to make more "useless" low end torque
LOL, are you trolling?
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
The time is when (not what time it is...lol) in the RPM band does peak tq occur, which "does" give a good indicator of when full boost is being achieved, especially if you are comparing different peoples setup with one another.
While RPM of peak torque is generally a good indicator, things like gear choice and altitude can still play a role in what the RPM ends up being.
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:05 PM   #41
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While RPM of peak torque is generally a good indicator, things like gear choice and altitude can still play a role in what the RPM ends up being.
Absolutely
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:08 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
The time is when (not what time it is...lol) in the RPM band does peak tq occur, which "does" give a good indicator of when full boost is being achieved, especially if you are comparing different peoples setup with one another.
Not really... Time is how quickly the far accelerates. You can look at the ramp rate and starting torque to somewhat gauge responsiveness. But don't assume that peak torque rpm signifies which car actually spools faster or is more responsive. There are plenty of times where a car that shows 500-1000rpm earlier spool on a dyno takes 2 seconds longer in the road to hit peak torque and is far behind the car that was more responsive and accelerated sooner, even with a later spool rpm/peak torque.



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LOL, are you trolling?

Take a look at my build... Peak torque of 300wtq flat from 3800(dyno... Road is like 3000) to almost 7000. Obviously not trolling
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by blurred View Post
Not really... Time is how quickly the far accelerates. You can look at the ramp rate and starting torque to somewhat gauge responsiveness. But don't assume that peak torque rpm signifies which car actually spools faster or is more responsive. There are plenty of times where a car that shows 500-1000rpm earlier spool on a dyno takes 2 seconds longer in the road to hit peak torque and is far behind the car that was more responsive and accelerated sooner, even with a later spool rpm/peak torque.






Take a look at my build... Peak torque of 300wtq flat from 3800(dyno... Road is like 3000) to almost 7000. Obviously not trolling
I don't think you understand and your response of useless low end torque (especially when it's not that much) is pretty trollish. We are not looking at acceleration, but how the shape of the tq and hp curve is and when in the RPM does it occur. This gives you a good indicator on how the setup is performing with the same/similar turbo when comparing to others.
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:28 PM   #44
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Check out Jagger racing's STI when he was racing stock-ish class with the 6258 and 430hp and 480tq. With the additional tq, you need to know how to drive it and when and how much throttle to give. Sure you can tune down the tq of your motor, but your not going to as quick/fast as someone that has more and knows how to us it.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2580790
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Old 08-18-2016, 05:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
Check out Jagger racing's STI when he was racing stock-ish class with the 6258 and 430hp and 480tq. With the additional tq, you need to know how to drive it and when and how much throttle to give. Sure you can tune down the tq of your motor, but your not going to as quick/fast as someone that has more and knows how to us it.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2580790
This is actually the only one I could find for EJ25 paired with 6258. Unfortunately it is on E85 (not available for me) so can't figure out how this will translate to pump gas. I'm from Europe BTW where ca 50% of modern cars are turbodiesel and most of them have really huge low end torque (for example I was driving Audi A4 with 350 ftlbs at 1500rpm recently) so believe me I would know how to use throttle LOL.
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Old 08-18-2016, 05:54 PM   #46
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BTW I'm not sure if the rpm (or time) when peak boost is achieved is ideal measure of spool up. First concern is what the peak boost is? For some it will be 20 psi, while other with the same turbo will go to 30 psi, so looking only into when peak boost is achieved, the first turbo will be obviously better spooling than the second one (even though those will be the same turbos...). The other thing is that compressor maps show that boost build up is not linear so we may have two turbos where one will reach 20 psi faster, but the second will reach 25 psi faster. Which is spooling better?
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:40 AM   #47
Krang
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New tune optimized for the AWIC, we were about an hour into the session at this point and had some issues with the car getting too hot and pulling timing. I'm going to work on some ways to combat that, but overall I'm very happy with the small improvements. I was hoping for some more HP but I think that some cooling improvements and some octane will take care of that. Feels a lot smoother too for some reason, I think the AVCS is doing more work now. Probably going to try and secure a 55gal drum of e98 and mix a blend for the next go around, the 92 oct here really hampers what we can do for the most part.

Still, very safe tune so I can beat it to hell and it will stay in one piece.

300wtq @ 3k rpm!

Overlay of the baseline I had done with the frontmount (RED) and the AWIC (BLUE):
http://i.imgur.com/9KYe4Gr.png

Here is a vf39 just about maxed out w/ Meth for comparison:
http://i.imgur.com/O9JMSWt.jpg
More info on the vf39 here: Adam's VF39 Meth tune...TORRRRQUEEE! - NASIOC
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:41 AM   #48
Krang
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New tune optimized for the AWIC, we were about an hour into the session at this point and had some issues with the car getting too hot and pulling timing. I'm going to work on some ways to combat that, but overall I'm very happy with the small improvements. I was hoping for some more HP but I think that some cooling improvements and some octane will take care of that. Feels a lot smoother too for some reason, I think the AVCS is doing more work now. Probably going to try and secure a 55gal drum of e98 and mix a blend for the next go around, the 92 oct here really hampers what we can do for the most part.

Still, very safe tune so I can beat it to hell and it will stay in one piece.

300wtq @ 3k rpm!

Overlay of the baseline I had done with the frontmount (RED) and the AWIC (BLUE):
http://i.imgur.com/9KYe4Gr.png

Here is a vf39 just about maxed out w/ Meth for comparison:
http://i.imgur.com/O9JMSWt.jpg
More info on the vf39 here: Adam's VF39 Meth tune...TORRRRQUEEE! - NASIOC
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Old 10-02-2016, 11:20 PM   #49
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Very nice!!!! What's the awic setup? Frozen boost or custom made? Engine bay pics?
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:28 PM   #50
Krang
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Very nice!!!! What's the awic setup? Frozen boost or custom made? Engine bay pics?
Plenty in here, but I'm going to take some in the daylight right now.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2803655
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