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Old 10-02-2022, 12:40 PM   #1
EvaUnit01
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Default First Reliability Mod

I wanted to gauge the forumís opinions/thoughts on a worthwhile reliability mod they would do on their STI.

The car is a 2019 STI that has no modifications on it, and Iíll be slowly saving up to put more parts on it (AKA: being divorced is a PITA.)

I have both of the following parts:

IAG Street AOS
GDT Cylinder 4 Cooling Mod

Thoughts? Opinions? Anything that you would recommend in lieu of?
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Old 10-02-2022, 01:05 PM   #2
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaUnit01 View Post
I wanted to gauge the forumís opinions/thoughts on a worthwhile reliability mod they would do on their STI.



The car is a 2019 STI that has no modifications on it, and Iíll be slowly saving up to put more parts on it (AKA: being divorced is a PITA.)



I have both of the following parts:



IAG Street AOS

GDT Cylinder 4 Cooling Mod



Thoughts? Opinions? Anything that you would recommend in lieu of?
Those and a good aluminum radiator that won't break at the plastic end tanks are the main reliability mods that quickly come to mind.
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Old 10-02-2022, 01:14 PM   #3
a5m
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Where are you located. Read up on the downsides of an AOS in cold climates. Can be catastrophic.

People are split on the Cyl 4 Cooling Mod. I have it on mine. Equal length headers would reduce the stress on that cylinder as well.
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Old 10-02-2022, 02:05 PM   #4
EvaUnit01
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Those and a good aluminum radiator that won't break at the plastic end tanks are the main reliability mods that quickly come to mind.
I'm a dummy, I forgot to mention that if you could do one first, which one would you opt/lean towards?

@a5m: I'm in NJ across the water from Philly. It's cold, but nothing like North Dakota cold, and that's just pure hell.

Future Plans:
End goals for this build are to keep things simple, nothing too strenuous since it is my daily.

Downpipe
EBCS
Fueling (pump, injectors, etc)
ELH
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Old 10-02-2022, 06:52 PM   #5
KillerBMotorsport
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Our SOP for a mostly stock car looking to maximize reliability, is Oil Pickup, AOS, Cyl-4 Cooling mod, EL Headers, Oil Temp Gauge, and Pro-Tune.
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Old 10-02-2022, 07:48 PM   #6
EvaUnit01
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Our SOP for a mostly stock car looking to maximize reliability, is Oil Pickup, AOS, Cyl-4 Cooling mod, EL Headers, Oil Temp Gauge, and Pro-Tune.
Would you choose the AOS over the Cylinder 4 Cooling Mod, or vice versa, and if so, why?
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Old 10-02-2022, 09:03 PM   #7
benflynn
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Intercooler, E85 kit.

Or pistons.
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Old 10-02-2022, 09:14 PM   #8
EvaUnit01
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Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Intercooler, E85 kit.

Or pistons.
Which is not an AOS or Cylinder 4 Cooling Mod, and you have to get tuned for E85 or a new IC.

Hence, why I asked, AOS or Cylinder 4 Cooling Mod.
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Old 10-02-2022, 09:27 PM   #9
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First reliability mod, many many many more ej dead from broken pistons and detonation than anything. AOS is not only a waste of money it is not a reliability mod, especially a first one.
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Old 10-02-2022, 10:17 PM   #10
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My 2Ę: Pull the pistons and open the ring gaps to 0.018" on the top and 0.024" for the 2nd compression ring. If you plan on upgrading the turbo (e.g.) consider switching to forged pistons then too.

Change to a Killer B oil pickup and run Rotella 5W40 or Amsoil 5W30. Change the oil relatively frequently and use OE Subaru oil filters. Check the oil level every time you fill up.
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Old 10-02-2022, 10:17 PM   #11
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<double post>

Last edited by Blackfin; 10-02-2022 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Double post
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Old 10-02-2022, 11:05 PM   #12
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a5m View Post
Where are you located. Read up on the downsides of an AOS in cold climates. Can be catastrophic.

People are split on the Cyl 4 Cooling Mod. I have it on mine. Equal length headers would reduce the stress on that cylinder as well.
Catastrophic?

I've seen some sludge but nothing actually problematic. Your engine gets well above water's boiling point when warmed up, and that emulsion evaporates in your oil pan before it touches your bearings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Our SOP for a mostly stock car looking to maximize reliability, is Oil Pickup, AOS, Cyl-4 Cooling mod, EL Headers, Oil Temp Gauge, and Pro-Tune.
Oil temp gauge and pickup should definitely be near the top of folk's the lists. Good call

Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Intercooler, E85 kit.
Or pistons.
Please do some research on the stock VA TMIC and tube and fin vs bar and plate in general before attempting to educate others.

And saying an AOS doesn't aid in engine reliability generally is somewhat laughable
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Old 10-02-2022, 11:18 PM   #13
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Yeah, all the reliability of a long hose. I donít see any reliability dumping that garbage back into the oil pan or intake. And I have had enough of the intercooler and one more to get rid of to know his iat drift up in boost and heat soaks and is great for packaging but little else even in stock form.
So whatís the known weak link in his unknown setup? Pistons that will break, eat up his oil and kill his fun and an intercooler that dosnt live up to its name to me.

Only thing I can see in that list is the pick up, tho I have never seen a cracked one myself.
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Old 10-02-2022, 11:32 PM   #14
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Yeah, all the reliability of a long hose. I donít see any reliability dumping that garbage back into the oil pan or intake. And I have had enough of the intercooler and one more to get rid of to know his iat drift up in boost and heat soaks and is great for packaging but little else even in stock form.

So whatís the known weak link in his unknown setup? Pistons that will break, eat up his oil and kill his fun and an intercooler that dosnt live up to its name to me.



Only thing I can see in that list is the pick up, tho I have never seen a cracked one myself.

Didnt Killer B already school you in another thread on how venting entirely to atmosphere does NOT achieve the same benefits for your engine as a properly setup AOS or catch can setup? Yet you keep repeating it.

Edit, here it is: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2942457

If that is your conclusion about the VA OEM STi TMIC, it's clear you've never used it.

I advise you to test one out before spouting more misinfo - It is not the same as the GD or GR TMIC.

The TMIC is NOT the weak link in this setup - and the bar and plate replacements everyone suggests heat soak considerably more than the tube and fin OEM designs.
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:48 AM   #15
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaUnit01 View Post
Would you choose the AOS over the Cylinder 4 Cooling Mod, or vice versa, and if so, why?
We typically do all of those at once. I I were to pick one first and why, it would be the cyl-4 cooling mod. A well-designed AOS certainly can improve reliability, but it's over the long term. The cyl-4 cooling mod, you see benefit from immediately.
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Old 10-03-2022, 08:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Yeah, all the reliability of a long hose. I donít see any reliability dumping that garbage back into the oil pan or intake.
Well then you should take your entire engine apart and clean the internals after every drive. That 'goo' is on every internal part of your engine. Especially surfaces that have a cold side: oil pan, balance tubes, fill tube, etc... It's a normal byproduct of combustion, and always has been for over 100 years. Not one single technical paper out there shows it to be detrimental.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
And I have had enough of the intercooler and one more to get rid of to know his iat drift up in boost and heat soaks and is great for packaging but little else even in stock form.
IDK what TMIC you've tested, or how you're testing it, but the 2019+ TMIC outperforms all previous OEM TMICs. Not by a little, by a lot. We tested it against 7 top dollar TMICs that you can buy today, and it performed better than all but one. This was on our 2019 shop mule that was making just under 500whp during that testing. For anyone with a GD or GR, it's a really good bang-for-the-buck upgrade, especially when you see the aftermarket units do not perform as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
.
So whatís the known weak link in his unknown setup? Pistons that will break, eat up his oil and kill his fun and an intercooler that dosnt live up to its name to me.
Not wrong here but check out the latest cylinder/piston specs. 2019+ engines all have the Type-RA engine. If you look at the RA piston and ring end-gap clearances, you can see thew grew. Likely one of the contributing factors as to why you see some much debate on the RA engines having improved reliability at higher power levels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Only thing I can see in that list is the pick up, tho I have never seen a cracked one myself.
I designed our oil pickup back in 2007 because I didn't want to be that guy, stuck on the side of the highway in the middle in the middle of nowhere, in a July heatwave, with a grumpy wife, and crying children (because that's the kind of luck I have). I never had intentions of selling them (this was before Killer B), but a few following what I was doing asked for one as well. It took off from there.

Few have seen them break in the wild, but there are pics out there. We have well over 50 customer supplied pics, and stopped saving them ~10 years ago, because what we have seems like more than enough to make the point. How many actually fail, few. If I had to guess, based on how many cars are produced, feedback from Subaru, shops, and customers, I would say it's in the 1-2% range. It's really low, but one of my customers said it best. "Failure of the oil pickup is small and insignificant, until it happens to me."
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:01 AM   #17
EvaUnit01
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
We typically do all of those at once. I I were to pick one first and why, it would be the cyl-4 cooling mod. A well-designed AOS certainly can improve reliability, but it's over the long term. The cyl-4 cooling mod, you see benefit from immediately.
Fair points.

I think the cooling mod I would agree with in terms of instant benefits. Since my engine is a 2019 with the Type RA internals, do you feel that would still be the case, simply because the design of the block/heads itself isn't changed?
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:05 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Yeah, all the reliability of a long hose. I donít see any reliability dumping that garbage back into the oil pan or intake. And I have had enough of the intercooler and one more to get rid of to know his iat drift up in boost and heat soaks and is great for packaging but little else even in stock form.
So whatís the known weak link in his unknown setup? Pistons that will break, eat up his oil and kill his fun and an intercooler that dosnt live up to its name to me.

Only thing I can see in that list is the pick up, tho I have never seen a cracked one myself.
There is no unknowns in my setup. The internals of the car and everything else is stock except for a CBE.
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Old 10-03-2022, 11:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Catastrophic?

I've seen some sludge but nothing actually problematic. Your engine gets well above water's boiling point when warmed up, and that emulsion evaporates in your oil pan before it touches your bearings.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2875914

Just an FYI, just replaced the pick-up on my 2010 WRX with ~130k and it was completely intact. Kinda felt like a waste of time. But I was installing the baffle too so now I have the peace of mind. For me it was worth it.
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Old 10-03-2022, 11:44 AM   #20
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a5m View Post
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2875914
Those PCV lines can freeze with or without an AOS - hence why FSM considers those PCV hoses a wear item and suggests frequent inspections, especially in colder climates.

The benefits of an AOS will always outweigh the potential drawbacks associated with using one in cold weather if you install it correctly.

The OP in that post also was not insulating his drain line - which is best practice when installing an AOS in colder climates.

Quote:
Just an FYI, just replaced the pick-up on my 2010 WRX with ~130k and it was completely intact. Kinda felt like a waste of time. But I was installing the baffle too so now I have the peace of mind. For me it was worth it.
You don't want to replace it after it cracks
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Old 10-03-2022, 11:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Those lines can freeze with or without an AOS - hence why FSM considers those PCV hoses a wear item and suggests frequent inspections, especially in colder climates.

The benefits of an AOS will always outweigh the potential drawbacks associated with using one in cold weather if you install it correctly.

The OP in that post also was not insulating his drain line - which is best practice when installing an AOS in colder climates.

You don't want to replace it after it cracks
Is there a consensus on what is considered "colder climates"?

If we're talking New England region (Vermont, Maine,), as well as the Northern States (WI, ND, SD, etc) then I can see the insulation being crucial.
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Old 10-03-2022, 11:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Our SOP for a mostly stock car looking to maximize reliability, is Oil Pickup, AOS, Cyl-4 Cooling mod, EL Headers, Oil Temp Gauge, and Pro-Tune.
Let it be known that KillerB spoke to the businessman portion of my heart with the SOP term.
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Old 10-03-2022, 12:35 PM   #23
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaUnit01 View Post
Is there a consensus on what is considered "colder climates"?
If we're talking New England region (Vermont, Maine,), as well as the Northern States (WI, ND, SD, etc) then I can see the insulation being crucial.
No there is no consensus.

Lots of places get VERY cold - even more so now with the climates changing.

Better safe than frozen.
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Old 10-03-2022, 12:44 PM   #24
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Fair.

I'll read the forums on the insulation, shouldn't be too hard to put on I'd wager.
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Old 10-03-2022, 12:47 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Those and a good aluminum radiator that won't break at the plastic end tanks are the main reliability mods that quickly come to mind.
^zactly
Because it increases reliability to put an upgraded radiator in a car that has a 1000% adequate radiator and will not overheat under any real world driving conditions. That way you can rest easy knowing you have even more cooling capacity that won't be needed or used. . . . .ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by a5m View Post
Equal length headers would reduce the stress on that cylinder as well.
sigh
EL headers won't do crap for any actual stress "on that cylinder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Our SOP for a mostly stock car looking to maximize reliability, is Oil Pickup, AOS, Cyl-4 Cooling mod, EL Headers, Oil Temp Gauge, and Pro-Tune.
double sigh
basically swap out tons of parts that have a 0.0001% chance of failing, or the same potential failure rate of whatever you swap them with
And Pro tune? Sheesh. Yeah, pay someone to put your car on a dyno, slam the redline 40 times and make a more aggressive tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfin View Post
My 2Ę: Pull the pistons and open the ring gaps to 0.018" on the top and 0.024" for the 2nd compression ring. If you plan on upgrading the turbo (e.g.) consider switching to forged pistons then too.
^this is mind boggling insane.
Guy has a stock vehicle that will be totally fine if not screwed with, and you are honestly recommending he disassemble the motor to change ring gaps and potentially replace pistons as well.

"reliability mod" is an oxymoron
there's no such thing
NOT modding out parts is the definition of maintaining reliability, that's what you bought. A complete vehicle designed 100% compatible and tuned conservatively to NOT fail unless outright flogged and beat to hell. . . . . . or modded out of course and tuned to death.

All the responses in this thread would make perfect sense if the title was changed to:
"What mods should I do just for the sake of modding something"
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