Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday June 16, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2019, 08:33 AM   #1
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default So I started tracking Exotruck

I've tried the drag racing thing, its not for me, and its certainly not for my 5mt so I'm now focused on Road Course. Theres an AWESOME course 45 minutes from home called Pitt Race (Pittsburgh International Race Complex). I just finished the car and got it street legal last fall, have put about 2k miles on it over the winter and stuck my toes in the track scene last week. I didnt know what to expect or how weather would play out so I signed up for the Track Night in America touring laps with hopes I could do hot laps if someone cancelled. No one cancelled so i only go to do the less than mild paced track touring laps. But it was still fun, i got to accelerate out of corners a couple times, got to put some G's to it and now I'm hooked. But I'm worried. The only track mods i really have is some ISC N1 coilovers, stock Legacy GT brakes and a Mishimoto radiator.

The built Ej22 i had in it started showing glitter in oil so i removed it and installed stock Ej206 long block which still has the old square oil pan. I still have a stock bugeye fuel tank. I have crappy tires, and i have crappy pads, and probably just as crappy rotors.

I suspect once i get some track tires, I'll be able to put down some crazy G's. The thing all ready handles better than anything I've ever driven and with no signs of losing traction. Funding is an issue, I got kids, a house, typical adult stuff. Track days are possible but not full blown race car possible. So basically even an upgraded oil pan is a long ways down the road, and actually cheaper to replace the ej206 than to upgrade the pan from what i'm seeing.

Any pointer from some road course subies out there?

Tires?
Helmet?
Shield tints?
brake pads?
how to control 60/40 weight distribution with AWD?


Video from the paced touring laps. A nice free 20 minute session to get to see the track and get a feel for it. No gear required, passengers allowed. I was at the back, little slack in the slinky back there.




* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 04-29-2019, 06:38 PM   #2
Suba_Roo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5691
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Redwood City, CA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS
Silverthorn

Default

Something you can work on right away (and safely practice on the street) is your hand positioning. You're doing all sorts of unnecessary movements. Lock your hands at 9 and 3 and dont move them unless your hands are completely crossed over. You dont have an air bag so you dont need to worry about shuffle steer. As you start pushing it more keeping your hands still will help you feel what the front end is doing.
Suba_Roo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 01:18 PM   #3
WhiteZombie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 338863
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bethlehem,PA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX Wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Road course stuff rules! SO much fun and involving for the entire time on track. Hard to get bored with it.

PittRace is a super cool track!

That's a wild looking truck thing you've got!

Tires - lots of options for 200 treadwear UHP "street tires" that will last a season or so with regular use on a good alignment/suspension setup/smooth driving,etc. My track monster is a 3800lb sedan on narrow for that size car 255 width tires on a 8.5" wide rim, so they are working hard. I've had good luck with Maxxis VR-1 and also Falken RT-615k+ for good grip across conditions and good wear characteristics. Usually gonna trade grip for longevity, so good to find a balance unless you got money to burn.
Best to learn on tires that have slightly lower grip levels than going straight to slicks or something, you'll learn a lot better car control. All season tires will get shredded quick though due to the load, tall tread blocks and heat.

Helmet - SA2015 or newer - Try them on. You may get lucky and buy one on the internet with you best sizing estimate, I did, but not all do. I bought a Sub $200 ZAMP full face and have actually been pretty happy with it. Had to add my own HANS anchors eventually, but still a deal. SA2020 is either here already, or literally around the corner, so while SA2015 may be on sale, you'll get 5 more years of certification out of an SA2020.

Shields- no clue there. Probably ok with regular clear for now.

Brake pads - Change the fronts and good, fresh, high temp fluid! Rear probably ok initially, but probably wise to change as well. Not sure what to suggest for Subaru brakes, but I've run both Carbotech and G-loc pads in my car with good results. Those two brands will also custom make pads to fit almost any brake as well, so that's a plus.

I'll have to watch the video later when I'm not at work to offer any driving tips. SMOOTH INPUTS are key!
WhiteZombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2019, 07:24 AM   #4
LGTLux
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 499103
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: NWGa/Chatt.Tenn.
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
Red

Default

Something that helps me a lot in bumpy corners is to drop my elbows. If it's a hairy corner I'll slide my hands to 4 & 8 elbows in.

Something about that tight go-kart suspension and my skinny little arms bouncing around gets me tickled.
LGTLux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2019, 09:10 AM   #5
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Thanks guys. I registered for the 5/22 TNiA and going in "stock" for now. These will be my first hot laps where I can find any weakness. Im rather nervous since the thing is so fast, brake fade us a concern not being able to slow done suddenly. But I'll be taking it easy for the most part.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2019, 10:26 AM   #6
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

get rid of that stock square pan, it will be the end of your engine when you decide to put stickier tires on. as for tires, I hate the falkens, I have them on my mr2 right now and they dont stick worth crap and in colder weather they dont stick at all. for price, get the federals or nankang, they seem to be a good bang for your buck tire. if you want to spend more, the bridgestone are good.
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2019, 12:18 PM   #7
motorbykemike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 273868
Join Date: Feb 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

fill the gas tank after every session

these things gave starvation issues in rights and pitt is mostly rights

bleed brakes , repeat


pm me , I have a pan for cheap

Last edited by motorbykemike; 05-05-2019 at 12:44 PM.
motorbykemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 08:10 AM   #8
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

got the tablet mount sorted out so my logger is nice and secure. no more laptop in the car.
Ive heard good things about the GT Radial SX2's and was looking at them a little while, at the last track day there was a WRX on Archilles ATR's and he was happy with them putting down 2 minute laps times which aint too bad.

Ill PM you on that pan

no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:30 PM   #9
Suba_Roo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5691
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Redwood City, CA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS
Silverthorn

Default

My car is so low on power that it is noticeably slower with a full tank of gas. The Jay Storm RC plane slosh tank mod is a nice, very cheap, way to avoid fuel starve.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/wiki...fuel_slosh_mod



Quote:
Originally Posted by motorbykemike View Post
fill the gas tank after every session

these things gave starvation issues in rights and pitt is mostly rights

bleed brakes , repeat


pm me , I have a pan for cheap
Suba_Roo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2019, 10:42 AM   #10
Norm Peterson
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: corner barstool (TV reference)
Vehicle:
2019 WRX Limited
Dark Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
Thanks guys. I registered for the 5/22 TNiA and going in "stock" for now. These will be my first hot laps where I can find any weakness. Im rather nervous since the thing is so fast, brake fade us a concern not being able to slow done suddenly. But I'll be taking it easy for the most part.
Are you talking about TNiA as in HPDE sessions (typically novice, intermediate, advanced) or time trialing (something new for SCCA)?

You're definitely going to want brake pads and fluids more suitable for track time than anything OE-sedan-streetable. Part of that is higher coefficient of friction, aka better 'bite', something that street pads generally are not known for. G-loc and Carbotech are good choices, particularly since they're pretty gentle on your rotors at least up to R12/XP12 compounds. Track-capable Hawk pads aren't nearly so nice to your rotors at the cooler temperatures you see in normal street driving.

Get some Motul RBF600 brake fluid for now. Better stuff is available at rather more cost/Liter, but the 600 stuff should be able to see you up to 'advanced' at HPDE.

Stick with plain rotors, or at most slotted/grooved only. Leave those rotors with all the pretty drilled holes for the folks who only want their brakes to have a race car look. Holes = stress concentrations, and a much greater chance of having a cracked rotor end your track day early.

Agree on hand placement. Real road courses (aka big tracks) generally don't have you needing as much steering wheel rotation as, say, autocross or low speed driving in neighborhoods and in parking lots. So a 9 & 3 or as close to that as you can manage may work for the entire course. Once or twice a lap when you're going down a straight - wiggle the fingers on each hand. If nothing else, this will help break up any tendency to grip the steering wheel too tightly. Both hands on the steering wheel when not shifting, and not just for the benefit of the shift forks. Both hands means you're balancing the weight of one arm on one side of the wheel by the weight of the other arm on the other side. It's more stable and less tiring.

Also agree about doing your early learning on true street tires. Friendlier breakaway characteristics with greater warning (a little squealing is OK, howling/growling means you're overdriving them). Max summer performance should be OK - perhaps up to Michelin Pilot Super Sport or Pilot Sport 4S, but at this point you should not be looking at the 200-treadwear "autocross specials" (RE-71R, Rival S, etc.).


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-07-2019 at 10:49 AM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2019, 11:01 AM   #11
Norm Peterson
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: corner barstool (TV reference)
Vehicle:
2019 WRX Limited
Dark Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
how to control 60/40 weight distribution with AWD?
This, and adjusting it to better suit you is something that starts with you paying attention to what the car does that you like and what it does that you don't like (or doesn't do that you wish it would). For now (and for cheap), you do have tire pressure tuning available to shift the understeer-oversteer handling balance. And possibly (hopefully!) alignment settings.

But in the beginning it's still mostly on you the driver to get better at the driving. More comfortable at higher cornering g's and under severe braking. Smoother with your inputs, which is not the same as "slow". Maybe think "not twitchy".


Welcome to a track day addiction.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2019, 12:26 PM   #12
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
This, and adjusting it to better suit you is something that starts with you paying attention to what the car does that you like and what it does that you don't like (or doesn't do that you wish it would). For now (and for cheap), you do have tire pressure tuning available to shift the understeer-oversteer handling balance. And possibly (hopefully!) alignment settings.

But in the beginning it's still mostly on you the driver to get better at the driving. More comfortable at higher cornering g's and under severe braking. Smoother with your inputs, which is not the same as "slow". Maybe think "not twitchy".


Welcome to a track day addiction.


Norm
Thank you for all that. Your correct its an HDPE type thing but without the instruction. No times unless you keeping track on your own. 10 years ago I would have hit the track full throttle and passing without point byes and being an overall jag off. Now I want to learn, I feel like I have something to prove for the budget dad community. Starts with applying good info like you talk about and getting better as a driver and not just throwing some R888's at it and blaming slow traffic.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2019, 01:09 PM   #13
Norm Peterson
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: corner barstool (TV reference)
Vehicle:
2019 WRX Limited
Dark Grey

Default

Do get some instruction - classroom and in-car - before you pick up too many bad habits. Age might play a part here - if you're a little older and a little more settled in life you might be somewhat less likely to have episodes of "red mist" where you're chasing another car out to - or past - what your skill level can comfortably support. On the other hand, street driving habits tend to be more deeply ingrained.

Most track day organizations provide instruction for their newbies and novices with little track experience. Hooked On Driving, NASA, Chin, AutoInterests, and the BMW and Porsche clubs do that I'm aware of.

AutoInterests is regional to the western PA - Ohio - W Va area and does run at Pitt. I've run with them at Mid-Ohio a couple of times, but as an intermediate signed off by other organizations to run solo.

https://autointerests.com/acclimation-program


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2019, 01:41 PM   #14
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Thats not bad for $99. Looks like theyll be here (Pitrace Sunday 6/30)
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 02:40 PM   #15
WhiteZombie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 338863
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bethlehem,PA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX Wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suba_Roo View Post
My car is so low on power that it is noticeably slower with a full tank of gas. The Jay Storm RC plane slosh tank mod is a nice, very cheap, way to avoid fuel starve.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/wiki...fuel_slosh_mod
Very cool, haven't seen that one. Will do before tracking my WRX.


And FWIW Norm's advice is solid! Maybe I'll see you guys at the track sometime, but I likely won't be driving something with any Subaru parts.......

WhiteZombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 08:39 AM   #16
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Ive been driving the daily around with hands at 9 and 3 trying to get more in the habit. I think on the track at speed that wont be an issue, but its nice getting used to the feel now.

Last few days I been looking more into corner balancing. Ive noticed my car "carves" better to the right than to the left. I originally just set more preload on my left side springs since im about 10% of my cars weight. Now i think it was not the correct thing to do. So the corner balancing/preload research continues
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 09:42 AM   #17
Norm Peterson
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: corner barstool (TV reference)
Vehicle:
2019 WRX Limited
Dark Grey

Default

Using your daily driving to practice what you use at the track really is a good idea. Just about everything is the same, just in slow motion by comparison.

I think what you want for "evening up" the hard cornering in both directions is 50% cross weight. At least close to that.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 11:40 AM   #18
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 in the garage
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

It's also really good to get used to checking your mirrors constantly. Lots of practice on steering wheel control and hand placement, heel-toe on downshifts, etc...
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 01:30 PM   #19
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
It's also really good to get used to checking your mirrors constantly. Lots of practice on steering wheel control and hand placement, heel-toe on downshifts, etc...
Mirrors. Check. I've always been a mirror guy, constantly wanting to know my surroundings. Plus in Exo i cant turn my head so I've got good mirrors in it.

As for heel-toe, that'll probably never happen lol. I Just dont have the coordination any more. BUT I have been setting up my rolling anti-lag. Got a cool little toggle switch to activate it. I'm not looking for 20psi between gears or anything but something to help take the edge off turbo lag, lift off oversteer and keep rpm's up for downshifts. This latest trans requires a rev matched 3rd gear downshift. 3rd and 4th gears is pretty much being 75% of the course there. Theres one corner that i may need 2nd, but only if i'm behind slower traffic.

Last edited by no694terry; 05-14-2019 at 02:22 PM.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 05:50 PM   #20
WhiteZombie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 338863
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bethlehem,PA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX Wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
Mirrors. Check. I've always been a mirror guy, constantly wanting to know my surroundings. Plus in Exo i cant turn my head so I've got good mirrors in it.

As for heel-toe, that'll probably never happen lol. I Just dont have the coordination any more. BUT I have been setting up my rolling anti-lag. Got a cool little toggle switch to activate it. I'm not looking for 20psi between gears or anything but something to help take the edge off turbo lag, lift off oversteer and keep rpm's up for downshifts. This latest trans requires a rev matched 3rd gear downshift. 3rd and 4th gears is pretty much being 75% of the course there. Theres one corner that i may need 2nd, but only if i'm behind slower traffic.

Heel toe is another great thing to practice in the daily or on the street if you can. It really isn't too tough, just takes some practice. On the street you need to finesse the heel blip and brake application a bit more than on the track, but still good practice.
Your driveline will thank you, and you'll definitely end up a smoother driver.
On track, the throttle blip is typically as hard as you can nail it in the heat of the moment in most instances. Again, practice makes perfect!
WhiteZombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 06:01 PM   #21
Norm Peterson
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498642
Join Date: Mar 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: corner barstool (TV reference)
Vehicle:
2019 WRX Limited
Dark Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteZombie View Post
Heel toe is another great thing to practice in the daily or on the street if you can. It really isn't too tough, just takes some practice. On the street you need to finesse the heel blip and brake application a bit more than on the track, but still good practice.
I'm guessing that in a street environment, H-T is going to be much easier to 'finesse' if the brake pads do NOT feature strong initial bite.

Fear of unintentionally spiking the brakes with performance-oriented pads in the calipers has very effectively discouraged me from practicing H-T as well.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2019, 10:28 AM   #22
WhiteZombie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 338863
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bethlehem,PA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX Wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I'm guessing that in a street environment, H-T is going to be much easier to 'finesse' if the brake pads do NOT feature strong initial bite.

Fear of unintentionally spiking the brakes with performance-oriented pads in the calipers has very effectively discouraged me from practicing H-T as well.


Norm

Agreed, BUT also very good for learning to finesse brake pedal pressure, which is honestly tough in a lot of stiffer soled shoes. With sticky race pads, I have much better pressure feel and sensory feedback in my driving shoes or VERY broken in Vans skate shoes, haha.
WhiteZombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 04:44 PM   #23
mhoward1
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
1832 Steam Buggy
Wood

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Do get some instruction - classroom and in-car - before you pick up too many bad habits. Age might play a part here - if you're a little older and a little more settled in life you might be somewhat less likely to have episodes of "red mist" where you're chasing another car out to - or past - what your skill level can comfortably support. On the other hand, street driving habits tend to be more deeply ingrained.

Most track day organizations provide instruction for their newbies and novices with little track experience. Hooked On Driving, NASA, Chin, AutoInterests, and the BMW and Porsche clubs do that I'm aware of.

AutoInterests is regional to the western PA - Ohio - W Va area and does run at Pitt. I've run with them at Mid-Ohio a couple of times, but as an intermediate signed off by other organizations to run solo.

https://autointerests.com/acclimation-program


Norm
This is my advice. Having a instructor or coach in the car is a real asset. Everyone sees a lot better results from this than any mod made to the vehicle. Plus going to these types of events tend to be a lot more social as well, so you have more fun off track as well.
mhoward1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 11:23 AM   #24
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

some last night footage.

boost turned down to 20psi, still on Otshu FP7000 all seasons


Last edited by no694terry; 06-07-2019 at 01:27 PM.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 07:57 PM   #25
R15
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 409971
Join Date: Jan 2015
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2018 WRX

Default

Very cool video, that overlay is very nice and you’ve got a great perspective.

Did they seriously not have ethanol? I saw you left before the last session. That guy driving the M5 that we were talking with almost lost it bad again but miraculously saved it, again.
R15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.