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Old 06-02-2004, 05:01 AM   #1
510ken
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Question How long does a set of tires last? How often to rotate?

As this is my first purchase of an AWD vehicle, I was curious about tire wear and rotation. I figure the fronts will not wear as rapidly as a vehicle that is front wheel drive. However, I believe the front tread will wear down more quickly. I know that tire wear is dependent on many variables, toe settings, camber settings, suspension modifications, ride height, defective shocks, bent or loose fitting suspension components, tire inflation, tire compounds, vehicle loading not to mention hard braking and cornering by the driver.

I am wondering how often or what is recommended for tire rotation? Or not to rotate? On an average how long, do tires last on an AWD vehicle?
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Old 06-02-2004, 06:19 AM   #2
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Your vehicle owners manual has a wealth of information, I suggest you read it. This advice isn't meant to be a slam, but information in your manual is the most correct information and usurps all advice here.

On an STi, the tires will probably last less than 10,000 miles unless you really, really baby them. The stock tires are extremely soft and wear a lot. New tires will do a lot for changing this figure. There isn't a real average on an AWD car, theoretically, tires when properly rotated should last slightly longer due to more even wear though. This is only theory and your/my mileage can vary greatly.
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Old 06-02-2004, 08:40 AM   #3
Rebellion
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on most cars, the recommended rotation is 7500 miles. With the STi... I'd say it'd probably be best to do it 2x frequently since the tires probably won't last much longer than 7500 miles.
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:06 PM   #4
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Actually the manual gets a little confusing when it describes rotation (because it is written in the general sense and describes several different types of tires).

However on the Impreza the tires should be kept on the same side of the car with the rotation being front to rear. The reason for this is not obvious. In theory a single STI tire could be mounted on any position. The tread design supports this. However when a tire is mounted , on say the drivers side , the steal belt inside the tire conforms to that rotation. If you took that tire and placed it on the passenger side this belt would be rotating in the opposite direction. In theory, at high temperature or stress the belt could come apart. So mark the tires carefully when removing them and keep them on the same side. I guess one could argue that with such a short life span of the STI tire rotation may not even be necessary.
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:51 PM   #5
RoyBoy016
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I rotate them every time I do an oil change (3K miles). I now have 9,200 miles on the car and my tires still have plenty of tread left (7/32nd). I guess I baby them to much .
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:55 PM   #6
Hayes
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Most reasonable drivers get 20,000 or so miles on the oem tires. I rotate when the front to rear tread depth difference is slightly over 1/32 inch which in my case is about 6500 miles. The slightly over 1/32 in tread depth difference equates to about 1/4 inch circumference difference which is the recomended maxium difference according to soa. ed
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:13 PM   #7
f4phantomii
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I've asked the same question of my local service department before.

They said they have a couple of guys that have gotten 20K plus out of their STi tires.

They also said they have a couple of guys that have gone through a complete set in one weekend of Autocross.

Looks like the non-OEM replacement tires have about 4 times the treadwear rating of the stock tires. They should last 40K-50K miles. Take a look in the Tire and Brake forum for some good info.

And as always, your mileage may vary.

-Michael
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Old 06-02-2004, 08:09 PM   #8
armand1
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Just remember that treadwear ratings are not comparable between different brands (and sometimes not between different categories of tires within a brand!).
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Old 06-02-2004, 08:42 PM   #9
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Tread wear ratings are comparable because: tires are driven on a roller of known roughness with a specified load applied. It does however measure tread loss only in the straight forward direction. The PR waranty tread wear is just that and is usually about worthless unless you have problems very early in the life of the tire.
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Old 06-02-2004, 11:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hayes
Tread wear ratings are comparable because: tires are driven on a roller of known roughness with a specified load applied. It does however measure tread loss only in the straight forward direction. The PR waranty tread wear is just that and is usually about worthless unless you have problems very early in the life of the tire.
armand1 was saying tread wear ratings are not comparable across brands. That is, each brand comes up with their own ratings. A 200 treadwear goodyear tire might actually last longer than a 300 treadwear dunlop, for example. You can only compare treadwear ratings for different models from a specific brand.
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:04 AM   #11
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question about tires. the s-03's i have on now are directional, so what do i do, just move front to back?
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:07 AM   #12
volkl23
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I have around 17k miles on my OEM tires and still have some tread on them. I'm forcasting the tires to last another 3-5k more miles. Hopefully more!
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Old 06-03-2004, 09:05 AM   #13
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Default rotation

Quote:
Originally posted by lettucemanatee
question about tires. the s-03's i have on now are directional, so what do i do, just move front to back?
Move left tires to the right, right tires to the left and drive in reverse all the time.

Directional tires can be rotated only front to rear if both are the same size (like Subaru). You can always unmount tires from wheels and do whatever you want but I do not think it is worth it and constant mounting/unmounting is not good for wheels and for tires.

Now if you have different sizes rear and front (Corvette, some BMWs) and you have directional tires than you can only unmount tires.
With assymetric tires you can exchange left and right.
With assymetric and directional tires they must maintain their position.

Krzys

PS BMW suggests to NOT rotate tires, for better performance.
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Old 06-03-2004, 09:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: How long does a set of tires last? How often to rotate?

Quote:
Originally posted by 510ken
I figure the fronts will not wear as rapidly as a vehicle that is front wheel drive. However, I believe the front tread will wear down more quickly.
Did you mean the front won't wear as fast as a FWD car, but faster than the rear tires? Because if that's what you meant to say then you have to be more specific.
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Old 06-03-2004, 09:29 AM   #15
Hayes
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Tread wear rating are a recognised standardized wear test that manufactures must follow. They are compariable across tire lines and from manufacture to manufacture.
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Old 06-03-2004, 10:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by RoyBoy016
I rotate them every time I do an oil change (3K miles). I now have 9,200 miles on the car and my tires still have plenty of tread left (7/32nd). I guess I baby them to much .
You're in Miami.. have you ever even seen a curve?
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Old 06-03-2004, 12:17 PM   #17
Subie Gal
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I run the Dunlop Sp5000's

Run the tire pressures at : 40psi all the way around and check them often (dunlop sp5000's recommend this for stiffer sidewall)

Rotate: every oil change so every 3k-4k miles (i drive really hard)
I get 35-40k miles per set of tires

Dunlop sp500's are :
340 tread wear
z-rated tires

these are ALL SEASONS (and aggressive ones at that!) and I prefer them as i live in Seattle... weather is always changing here, and often rainy n wet....

best to do a TON of reasearch.
try: www.tirerack.com

good luck
Jamie
www.subiegal.com
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Old 06-03-2004, 04:48 PM   #18
armand1
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hayes
Tread wear rating are a recognised standardized wear test that manufactures must follow. They are compariable across tire lines and from manufacture to manufacture.
Not really -- it's only a pseudo-standardized test.
According to http://www.cjtire.com/pdfs/Tire%20Identification.pdf this is how they are tested:
"Treadwear ratings are determined on a 400-mile government test course covering specified sections of public roads near San Angelo, Texas. A group of not more than four test vehicles travels the course in a convoy so that all tires experience the same conditions. Tread groove depths of the tires being tested are measured after each 800 miles. The same procedure is followed for a set of control, or “course monitoring tires.” Upon completion of the 7,200-mile test the rating results of both tests are compared, and the tires being tested are assigned a treadwear rating by the manufacturer."

Since cars, road, temperature, and weather conditions vary, only the tires on up to four identical test vehicles in a convoy can be strictly compared against each other. The "course monitoring tires" (or controls) are there to provide some degree of comparability between different tests, but the more differences (e.g. car model used, condition of road, temperature, weather, driving style), the less comparable the tests are. Even within a single company's testing, a number of these variables will change. Between different companies, the differences will usually be greater; that's why there's a greater chance that a 200-rated tire from one manufacturer will outlast a 250-rated tire from another manufacturer, vs a 250-rated tire from the same manufacturer.
Since different classes of tire (e.g. "high performance summer", "all-season touring") tend to wear differently under different temperature, weather, and road conditions, again you will tend to get less accurate comparisons when comparing tires of different classes.

Quote:
Tread wear ratings are comparable because: tires are driven on a roller of known roughness with a specified load applied.
Tread wear is not done this way, but the Temperature rating IS done this way, so the Temp rating can be compared among different brands and classes pretty well.

Last edited by armand1; 06-03-2004 at 04:55 PM.
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