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Old 09-11-2019, 11:56 AM   #751
subyski
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Good point about replacing previous H6. It was not always that way with the H6, though. Take a look at the 2008 3.0R Limited’s “sporty” upgrades beyond the engine bay: improved, more responsive 5EAT with paddle shifters; VTD; 18" alloys with sportier tires; Bilstein Sport Suspension, inverted struts; aerodynamic body kit; SI Drive with Sport# button on steering wheel for fast access.
Good points too. The VTD abandonment is so unfortunate, save for the WRX CVT. I forgot about the Bilstein suspension. It would be nice to see a sport/performance/tS package come out for the LXT like the WRX and BRZ but considering sedan sales continues to slide, I doubt it will happen.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:04 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Good points too. The VTD abandonment is so unfortunate, save for the WRX CVT. I forgot about the Bilstein suspension. It would be nice to see a sport/performance/tS package come out for the LXT like the WRX and BRZ but considering sedan sales continues to slide, I doubt it will happen.
In my opinion, that's exactly why they're declining. No sauce.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #753
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many countries tax for displacement so that may be part of the reason subaru keeps using 2.0 liter engines
Subaru does have a naturally aspirated FB16 for these countries but, sadly, even FB16 is outdated and outgunned compared to the small 1.0L~1.4L 3-pot turbo engines that many manufacturers are using nowadays.
It all started back in 2012 when Ford introduced their 128-hp 1.0L direct injected turbo 3-pot...meanwhile, at nearly the same time period, Subaru came out with the port injected N/A FB20... You see what I'm saying?
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Old 11-01-2019, 12:12 AM   #754
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and the accord destroys it in every performance metric. not by a little either. its driving dynamics and everything else a "car guy" cares about, are also inferior on the legacy. well done subaru!


https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-honda-accord/
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:13 AM   #755
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I'm confused with how Subaru is tuning these CVT turbos. From M/T:

Quote:
Either way, time at the track revealed that our Limited, the heaviest of four Ascents MotorTrend has tested to date by 32 pounds, was also quickest in the quarter mile at 15.2 seconds compared with 15.5 for the Premium (weighing 140 pounds less); 16.0 for a Touring; and 15.8 seconds for a heavier Touring. The top two performers tied to 60 mph.
From ^^ C&D Legacy Accord H2H above:

Quote:
C/D
TEST RESULTS
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.7 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 24.5 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.7 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.8 sec @ 97 mph
The Legacy has the same engine and CVT as the Ascent as far as we know. It weighs ~1k lbs less than the Ascent.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:30 AM   #756
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Besides that I think the Legacy is all win up against the Accord. And by win I mean it totally loses everywhere across the board but if it were my money I'd definitely buy one over an Accord. To impress Chano of course.
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:10 AM   #757
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a mazda cx-9 pulls more lateral g's than the legacy. .84g's vs. .80g's. is this that amazing handling the subaru global platform was touted as having?
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:18 AM   #758
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a mazda cx-9 pulls more lateral g's than the legacy. .84g's vs. .80g's. is this that amazing handling the subaru global platform was touted as having?
None of the magazines say the Legacy's handling is bad. It's simply tuned for cruising and not corner carving. According to C&D's stats, the 2.5T Mazda6 lateral g's are also less than the cx-9 and the stats in general are a dead ringer for the Legacy.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-test-review/

Last edited by SoDealer; 11-01-2019 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:25 AM   #759
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But the mazda6 also is known to have literal cuv tires that severely hurt its grip and performance compared to the subaru
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:26 AM   #760
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None of the magazines say the Legacy's handling is bad. It's simply tuned for cruising and not corner carving. According to C&D's stats, the 2.5T Mazda6 lateral g's are also less than the cx-9 and the stats in general are a dead ringer for the Legacy.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-test-review/
the mazda is built better than the subaru and has a much nicer interior and transmission so at least it does something good. its also at the very end of its life cycle and not fresh like the subaru.
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:37 AM   #761
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But the mazda6 also is known to have literal cuv tires that severely hurt its grip and performance compared to the subaru
Did you even bother to check the Legacy's tires before posting this excuse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
the mazda is built better than the subaru and has a much nicer interior and transmission so at least it does something good. its also at the very end of its life cycle and not fresh like the subaru.
You haven't even driven a 2020 Legacy. You're just content to magazine race and troll. Nice excuses. Every write up on the Legacy states competent handling and plush ride quality. It clearly wasn't Subaru's objective to make the new Legacy a sport sedan. Yes it's vanilla, but it's not like it's failing at something it's trying to be...like Mazda trying to be a premium brand.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:30 AM   #762
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Did you even bother to check the Legacy's tires before posting this excuse?



You haven't even driven a 2020 Legacy. You're just content to magazine race and troll. Nice excuses. Every write up on the Legacy states competent handling and plush ride quality. It clearly wasn't Subaru's objective to make the new Legacy a sport sedan. Yes it's vanilla, but it's not like it's failing at something it's trying to be...like Mazda trying to be a premium brand.
Yes, they compliment the ride. There have been no compliments on the handling or driving dynamics, only complaints. Mazda is far more premium than subaru. If you want to go down the sales = quality route you sure picked the wrong brand to back. Nobody will ever accuse subaru of being a premium brand. I also bought 7 new subarus since 07 and 1 mazda so my bias certainly isnt in mazdas favor.
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:26 AM   #763
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Besides that I think the Legacy is all win up against the Accord. And by win I mean it totally loses everywhere across the board but if it were my money I'd definitely buy one over an Accord. To impress Chano of course.
I'd be a proud Papa.
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:32 AM   #764
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Legacy is not a sports car. Subaru has tuned it as such. I'm sure the aftermarket will help out with that by next year. Tuning and coilovers, voila. Sports sedan.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:22 AM   #765
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a mazda cx-9 pulls more lateral g's than the legacy. .84g's vs. .80g's. is this that amazing handling the subaru global platform was touted as having?
It must come on RE92s. The 2002 WRX only managed .81g on C&D skidpad test.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...erm-road-test/

Quote:
Top speed fell 6 mph to 139, and the worn Bridgestone tires could only manage 0.79 g on the skidpad, a 0.02 drop from the maiden test.
By comparison, the '17 Impreza sport, which ships with better tires (but not as good as the previous Impreza), gets 0.84g...

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-maintenance/

Quote:
Its 0.84 g of skidpad grip...
Better tires = better numbers in these tests. Simple.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 11-01-2019 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:26 AM   #766
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Yes, they compliment the ride. There have been no compliments on the handling or driving dynamics, only complaints.
False

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
Mazda is far more premium than subaru. If you want to go down the sales = quality route you sure picked the wrong brand to back. Nobody will ever accuse subaru of being a premium brand.
1) Subaru isn't trying to be a premium brand
2) Mazda is and they are failing at it
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:47 AM   #767
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The Legacy is not what it used to be. Now is just a plain boring commuter car.

I think the WRX has grown to be what the old Legacy was.

I would also get an Accord over the Legacy. Drove my BIL's sport one and the CVT impressed me. Compared to the one in the Subaru I drove.
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:10 AM   #768
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[quote=SoDealer;46161818]Did you even bother to check the Legacy's tires before posting this excuse?







I own them both
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:38 AM   #769
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[quote=alexd3498;46161956]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
Did you even bother to check the Legacy's tires before posting this excuse?







I own them both


You own a 20 Legacy XT?
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:18 AM   #770
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[quote=SoDealer;46161991]
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexd3498 View Post



You own a 20 Legacy XT?
Oh my bad I was half asleep and didnt realize it was the 2020 forum I have a 2019 how embarrassing, though I do assure you the mazda has way worse tires, it is literally famous for how bad the tires are!!

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazd...t-test-review/
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Old 11-01-2019, 12:39 PM   #771
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The 05 LGT posted 0.81-0.83g. the spec b went up to 0.87g but it also wore much better suspension and tires.
The 20 2.5i Sport posted 0.84g while the XT posted 0.80g.

I will say it again but the XT is not intended to be a 2.5GT replacement. It is a 3.6R replacement.

Skid pad numbers are such as track numbers. If tires are the same, then we can better understand the chassis and suspension.
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Old 11-01-2019, 12:56 PM   #772
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So what's the deal with all the discrepancies in acceleration times tho. Ascent barely slower than the Legacy to 100 mph breaks the brain.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:32 PM   #773
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You haven't even driven a 2020 Legacy. You're just content to magazine race and troll. Nice excuses. Every write up on the Legacy states competent handling and plush ride quality. It clearly wasn't Subaru's objective to make the new Legacy a sport sedan. Yes it's vanilla, but it's not like it's failing at something it's trying to be...like Mazda trying to be a premium brand.
Don't feed the trolls. Of course he didn't. This new Legacy is a home run for Subaru, so is the Ascent and SGP cars with FADIT engines. Elegant styling, second to none AWD system and safety ratings. They nailed it with their target audience. The sedan market is shrinking and the current Accord is doing very poorly in comparison to the previous gen, but hey them skid pad and 0-60 numbers are great. Exactly what the average buyer in this class is looking for, right ?
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #774
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Don't feed the trolls. Of course he didn't. This new Legacy is a home run for Subaru, so is the Ascent and SGP cars with FADIT engines. Elegant styling, second to none AWD system and safety ratings. They nailed it with their target audience. The sedan market is shrinking and the current Accord is doing very poorly in comparison to the previous gen, but hey them skid pad and 0-60 numbers are great. Exactly what the average buyer in this class is looking for, right ?
Now this is absolutely true, the new legacy is a home run in what it's meant to do, and it has solved every problem I have with my 19 and might trade it for a 21 once I'm not so underwater the turbo is so much nicer and faster than my 2.5 NA and I love the refinement, it somehow feels lighter but equally like a solid tank that would easily defeat any crash tests
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:22 PM   #775
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Yeah for what I like in a sedan (yeah I typed that) it's nice. Doesn't make it a homerun in the segment tho.
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