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Old 06-09-2003, 07:44 PM   #1
racewagon
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Default vf22 or 16g

hybrid 16g or vf series 22, i want alot of power, i know the 22 is laggy but how much more noticeable is the power increase over the 16g hybrid?
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Old 06-09-2003, 07:47 PM   #2
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how hard is it to customize pipes for a garret t66? i wann be able to break em loose in 4th , seriously though, whats a good big turbo that will give me lots of power but not too much lag, is the vf22 the way to go? unless someone knows how to put on a t66
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Old 06-09-2003, 08:04 PM   #3
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Well to start with the 16G flows more than the VF22. There has been several good threads about both of those turbos with alot of good info from users. There is also a thread that has a chart listing the flow capabilities of just about any turbo you can think of. Here is the thread with the flow numbers: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=TD05

Enjoy
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Old 06-10-2003, 05:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: vf22 or 16g

Quote:
Originally posted by racewagon
i know the 22 is laggy but
Hearsay. [email protected] in 4th isn't laggy to me.
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Old 06-10-2003, 05:58 PM   #5
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thats not too bad, hows the power there? is there anything bigger or better that is a direct bolt on, i really dont care about lag now, i just want power, even up to 4 something rpm ill be fine if it doesnt spool as long as i fly once it kicks in
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Old 06-10-2003, 06:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: vf22 or 16g

Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC


Hearsay. [email protected] in 4th isn't laggy to me.
Well yeah... that's 4th... how bout 1st, or 2nd?

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 06-10-2003, 06:05 PM   #7
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so jorge, you thing that something like the 16g would be better? vf 30 or 16g size?

i read up on all that cfm ratings and stuff, very useful, i guess, but i still dont know when they spool and what kind of power ill be getting
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Old 06-10-2003, 07:35 PM   #8
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Basically the 16g will give you VF22 performance with less lag (that's a really simplified explanation). Downside: good luck trying to find one, whereas the VF22 has a good tuning knowledgebase and is easy to get. Your decision if you want to put up with the hassle of tracking down a 16g for a few hundred RPM's of spool
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Old 06-10-2003, 07:38 PM   #9
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I think the 16g hybrid you are talking about has the same exhaust housing as a vf22
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Old 06-10-2003, 07:42 PM   #10
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so if it has the same housing, im gonna see similar power maybe better than the vf22 but with spool up around what a vf30 would do or even earlier?
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Old 06-10-2003, 10:19 PM   #11
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is it true that the 16G must use custom up and down pipes?
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Old 06-10-2003, 10:35 PM   #12
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I think it really depends on the kind of 16g you want to use. If you want to use the same 16g's that the DSM guys are using, then yes you will need custom up and down pipes, which Bushcur (?) racing sells as a kit. With it, you can run any mitsu turbo from small 16g up to the 20g's. If you want to run the TD05-16g's that came with certain older subaru's, then all you need to do is modify the inlet piping 90 degrees (or was it modify the 90 degree bend to straight?) and it should bolt-on. Turbo Specialties also makes a TD05-16g, although it uses the IHI housing, which is a direct bolt-on. They are selling them for $850 and there is a thread about them on the Vendor For Sale forum. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-10-2003, 11:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by kyoung05
modify the 90 degree inlet to straight?) and it should bolt-on.
That's the correct one
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Old 06-10-2003, 11:28 PM   #14
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This is the TD05H-16G the comes stock on the '94-'97 WRX Sedans overseas.


I can get brand new TD05H-16G turbos from the GT555 Impreza for a pretty good price. The only difference between the two is the one from the GT555 is front entry, which makes it a complete bolt on turbo. The only thing that may need to be modified are the fittings for the oil and coolant lines.
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Old 06-10-2003, 11:46 PM   #15
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Any data on how those perform on the USDM EJ205's? Also, how good of a price are we talkin here? Thanks.
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Old 06-11-2003, 01:39 AM   #16
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yeah, I think it's important to remember just how many "16g" options are out there - kudos to kyoung05 for his post. As for how the reworked overseas OEM TD05-16g performs on a USDM ej20, well, we really don't have much (if any) information, just a lot of speculation. However, Britain gets the same shortblock we do, and over there none of the good tuners even bother with the IHI VF's - too dated and inefficient for good performance. They love the Mitsu turbos, and their OEM TD05-16g is a favorite for huge performance and great spool.

John Banks is the man to talk to about the OEM TD05-16g's, he's got tons of experience tuning them and loves them (keep in mind this is with the basically the same engines we have). Spool is akin to a VF35 (almost stock-fast), while power easily outdoes the VF22 by 10+whp. He'll tell you not to waste your time with VF's and get the performance, reliability, rebuildabiliy, and upgradability of the OEM TD05-16g.

As for cost, some guys have gotten them used for $300 or so and then had them cleaned up, rebalanced, and rebuilt (I believe the water line must be reworked or something like that) for another $2-400. Pretty great deal if you ask me, but good luck getting a hold of one: I've been trying on and off for about 6 months to find one, to no avail. 02_Scooby_WRX is going to be able to get new ones for about $800 in the near future appearantly - man, that would be nice
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Old 06-11-2003, 07:14 AM   #17
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I just picked up a Subaru TD05-16G from Ireland. It is going out to be rebuilt this week I hope to have it in the car by the end of the summer. I had one heck of a time deciding between the 16G with P20 hybird or trying to source the true Subaru 16G. I came to the conclusion that the hybird would be to laggy because of the larger exhaust housing. I have spent hours looking over flow maps trying to decide on the small 16G or the big 16G. From what I can tell the small 16G is more efficent across the board until you start to go above PR 2.75 which is about 25psi at sea level. I do not plan on boosting that high so I going to stick with the small 16G. The small 16G is not even rated above PR 2.75. I woul try to source a Subaru TD05-16G-7cm^2 from what I can tell and from what I have heard this is one badass turbo fast spool and about 100cfm more at the same PR as the stock turbo and it will go to a higher PR than the stocker and still remain effcent.

Sorry for the book
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Old 06-11-2003, 10:17 AM   #18
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100cfm's more than the stock turbo at stock boost levels? Or at its maximum efficient boost level? If I recall correctly, the stock turbo is only capable of 340cfm's or something like that. That would put this 16g at around 440cfm's, which I don't think is much different from the IHI line of turbos which are much easier to come across. How would this TD05H-16g be an upgrade from say the VF30? I don't think spool-up is much of an issue, well to me anyways, since you could always go with something smaller like say a VF turbo with the smaller P15 (versus P18/P20 I think) housing, which may also flow somewhere around that 440cfm range. I thought the P20 hybrid 16g was appealing because of the fact that it can flow more than the largest IHI turbo, yet spooled up faster, reaching full boost around 3400rpm (or so they claim). To be honest, I was looking at the 16g as a less expensive alternative to the PE line of turbos, or something comprable. I wanted something that had enough flow capability to provide the nice top end of say a PE1818F/PE1820 (~560CFM's ?), while not costing an arm and a leg. Anyways, let us know more about that turbo, thanks.

edit: Sorry, just reread the post saying that it was rated at 100cfm's more than the stock turbo at same PR. In that case, what is its effiecient PR/boost level, and what does it flow there? Thanks again.
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Old 06-11-2003, 10:38 AM   #19
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Here is the map for the small 16G
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16gsmall-cfm.gif

And the large 16G
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif

Here is the map for the TD04-09B
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04-09b-cfm.gif

Here is the map for the TD04-13G
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04-13g-cfm.gif

I couldn't remember wich TD04 is the stack one so I put up two. The subaru TD05 should spool faster than the hybird because of the exhaust housing. The P20 housing has a larger A/R than the 7cm^2 housing. But the P20 housing will have less EGBP at the expense of lag. I don't know the A/R of eitherr one off the top of my head but I will try to find them.
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Old 06-11-2003, 11:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX
This is the TD05H-16G the comes stock on the '94-'97 WRX Sedans overseas.


I can get brand new TD05H-16G turbos from the GT555 Impreza for a pretty good price. The only difference between the two is the one from the GT555 is front entry, which makes it a complete bolt on turbo. The only thing that may need to be modified are the fittings for the oil and coolant lines.
price please ..... ?????

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Old 06-11-2003, 12:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: Re: Re: vf22 or 16g

The VF22 has been shown to spool faster than the VF30 on several of our cars. The VF23 and VF22 both spool at exactly the same rpm for me. The VF23 has been shown to spool faster than the 30 by a little bit.


Quote:
Originally posted by RiftsWRX


Well yeah... that's 4th... how bout 1st, or 2nd?

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
OK Jorge, you've been here long enough to know we ALL use 4th gear as an example of boost spool (the rpm where it reaches a target boost). That's just the trend. Of course the lower the gear, the lesser the load, the slower the spool. 4th gear is just the gear to use to compare between cars.

Last edited by TypeC; 06-11-2003 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 06-11-2003, 01:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJ20K


price please ..... ?????

Right now it is going to be around $800 shipped. The price may change with the amount of intrest I get in people who REALLY do want these turbos, but it will only be lower not higher. Remember these are BRAND NEW, not used. They are also made to order so there will be a wait period on them.

If anyone is intrested contact me, but only if you are a serious buyer. If you are not serious about purchasing one then dont waste my time.

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Old 06-11-2003, 06:52 PM   #23
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how long will you be able to get these turbos? I'm very interested, just don't have the funds currently, probably won't for a while

speed safely

Brian
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Old 06-11-2003, 07:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slvrblt
how long will you be able to get these turbos? I'm very interested, just don't have the funds currently, probably won't for a while

speed safely

Brian
I will be able to get these turbos forever. Contact me for more details.

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Old 06-11-2003, 07:34 PM   #25
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can you explain the differences between this 16g and the hybrid being sold in the vendor classifieds for 800?
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