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Old 08-30-2023, 02:39 AM   #726
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How is it hurting sales? You know their sales goals for it?
I posted that entirely to bait you into your entirely predictable replies
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Old 08-30-2023, 10:49 AM   #727
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How is it hurting sales? You know their sales goals for it?
Subaru is offering 0.9% APR on the Solterra.
https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tool...html?model=SOL

They only produced about 6,500 cars for the US. They should have sold out immediately. The fact that you can get them any day of the week, with teaser APR, shows they are not popular.

My local has 8 on the lot and I get deal emails about them all the time.



Now, on a happier note, the software upgrades from Toyota in Europe are improving the charging curve, etc. So, perhaps 2024 will be better.
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Old 08-30-2023, 12:21 PM   #728
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The market for small CUV EV's is over-saturated. All of the brands started in that market because the ICE CUV market is so popular but that doesn't necessarily mean the CUV EV market could handle it. They all forgot to diversify and now there's not enough demand so lackluster offerings aren't selling.

I know that personally I have zero desire to spend CUV money on something that I'm still not willing to take on a road trip (spare me the lecture on EV road trips). Plug-in hybrid, sure, but full EV? Nah, give me a small, fun commuter car. I'd love a powerful EV version of my 135 convertible. I'd never want to take a convertible on a road trip anyway, so EV would be fine.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:05 PM   #729
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The market for small CUV EV's is over-saturated. All of the brands started in that market because the ICE CUV market is so popular but that doesn't necessarily mean the CUV EV market could handle it. They all forgot to diversify and now there's not enough demand so lackluster offerings aren't selling.

I know that personally I have zero desire to spend CUV money on something that I'm still not willing to take on a road trip (spare me the lecture on EV road trips). Plug-in hybrid, sure, but full EV? Nah, give me a small, fun commuter car. I'd love a powerful EV version of my 135 convertible. I'd never want to take a convertible on a road trip anyway, so EV would be fine.
All true, but a 6,500 unit production with a pre-order period should have sold out.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:38 PM   #730
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All true, but a 6,500 unit production with a pre-order period should have sold out.
i saw one the other day and it looks terrible in person, imo. the unpainted fenders do not work well.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:58 PM   #731
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
I posted that entirely to bait you into your entirely predictable replies
And....?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
All true, but a 6,500 unit production with a pre-order period should have sold out.
Why?

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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Subaru is offering 0.9% APR on the Solterra.
https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tool...html?model=SOL

They only produced about 6,500 cars for the US. They should have sold out immediately. The fact that you can get them any day of the week, with teaser APR, shows they are not popular.

My local has 8 on the lot and I get deal emails about them all the time.



Now, on a happier note, the software upgrades from Toyota in Europe are improving the charging curve, etc. So, perhaps 2024 will be better.

1st part......let's do some maths. You good at maths? I'm so-so. If they keep at pace, then they'll be at 6000 units at the end of the year. Yeah, that falls short; but, they did have a flub in the beginning and had folks scared off. I wouldn't blame them. Could they have a surge at the end of the year to take care of the rest of those 500? I guess we'll see. I'm not necessarily defending the car. It's built in a Toyota factory. That's a big no from me. But, it still offers it's customers what very few, if any others offer. I, too, however, was/am disappointed in the range and charge time. Which brings me to your 2nd part. The last sentence. All I have to say to that is .
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Old 08-31-2023, 10:42 AM   #732
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And....?





Why?




1st part......let's do some maths. You good at maths? I'm so-so. If they keep at pace, then they'll be at 6000 units at the end of the year. Yeah, that falls short; but, they did have a flub in the beginning and had folks scared off. I wouldn't blame them. Could they have a surge at the end of the year to take care of the rest of those 500? I guess we'll see. I'm not necessarily defending the car. It's built in a Toyota factory. That's a big no from me. But, it still offers it's customers what very few, if any others offer. I, too, however, was/am disappointed in the range and charge time. Which brings me to your 2nd part. The last sentence. All I have to say to that is .
Because new EVs sell out when pre-sold, especially when the units are tiny. Or the units arrive and get massive mark ups. These are sitting. Luckily they seem to now be buying down the interest rates to try and help move inventory. When I had a deposit on one (not a pre-order) the lease numbers were terrible, high MF and low residual. I cancelled my order. 6,500 cars should have been immediately sold, day 1. Tesla can presell that many cars in an hour.
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Old 08-31-2023, 06:16 PM   #733
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Because new EVs sell out when pre-sold, especially when the units are tiny. Or the units arrive and get massive mark ups. These are sitting. Luckily they seem to now be buying down the interest rates to try and help move inventory. When I had a deposit on one (not a pre-order) the lease numbers were terrible, high MF and low residual. I cancelled my order. 6,500 cars should have been immediately sold, day 1. Tesla can presell that many cars in an hour.



Tesla is a different kind of car. Has years of sales behind it now. And, like I said.....it had a rough start. A stop sale before the first delivery without a fix for months. Not the best tingly feeling for buying a car. CONSIDERING that, with them only building 6500 for the year and they will be not too far off that, sounds like it actually is doing "well".



As you are, I am curious about the '24s.
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Old 08-31-2023, 06:40 PM   #734
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VW ID.4 is a direct competitor, right? They sold almost 17k in the first year. To date they're close to 55K. They also suffered from a rough start.

Subaru is just late to the game with a sub-par offering. Sounds typical, just like their hybrid offerings.
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Old 08-31-2023, 09:29 PM   #735
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VW ID.4 is a direct competitor, right? They sold almost 17k in the first year. To date they're close to 55K. They also suffered from a rough start.

Subaru is just late to the game with a sub-par offering. Sounds typical, just like their hybrid offerings.



I don't disagree with that; but, what was the ID.4's rough start? Did they have a stop sale before they even made it to dealers?



And considering you can get them for $6000 cheaper. Is there a breakdown of those sales?


Impressive you can have one 8 different ways!
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Old 09-01-2023, 01:25 PM   #736
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I don't disagree with that; but, what was the ID.4's rough start? Did they have a stop sale before they even made it to dealers?

And considering you can get them for $6000 cheaper. Is there a breakdown of those sales?

Impressive you can have one 8 different ways!
ID.4 was delayed because of software/programming issues. It was mostly an issue with the ID.3's, but the ID.4's were delayed to get the issues fixed.

Not sure I've seen a breakdown between the RWD/AWD sales - most of the used ones in my market seem to be RWD though. Maybe that's because the people who bought the AWD ones are more happy with it and not selling? Just anecdotal...
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:44 PM   #737
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ID.4 was delayed because of software/programming issues. It was mostly an issue with the ID.3's, but the ID.4's were delayed to get the issues fixed.

Not sure I've seen a breakdown between the RWD/AWD sales - most of the used ones in my market seem to be RWD though. Maybe that's because the people who bought the AWD ones are more happy with it and not selling? Just anecdotal...
I believe RWD launched first. So, people upgraded to AWD.
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Old 09-02-2023, 09:40 AM   #738
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ID.4 was delayed because of software/programming issues. It was mostly an issue with the ID.3's, but the ID.4's were delayed to get the issues fixed.

Not sure I've seen a breakdown between the RWD/AWD sales - most of the used ones in my market seem to be RWD though. Maybe that's because the people who bought the AWD ones are more happy with it and not selling? Just anecdotal...


Next question. Was that a delay or stop sale delay.....portrayed as "if you drive it, you'll die"? Still not disagreeing that it could be that it's somewhat underwhelming; but, I wouldn't have expected it to "sell out" on pre-orders either. Not at the price it is. And considering the months long stop sale, I would say it's selling fine. Now, without saying what I can't say, the next few years should prove to be interesting.
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Old 09-20-2023, 02:29 PM   #739
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The car just isn't good. It doesn't even have a glove box. At this point I would hope anyone who follows Subaru is skeptical of any future EV based on the trunk eating battery hybrid Crosstrek and this no glove box solterra.
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Old 09-20-2023, 03:58 PM   #740
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Next question. Was that a delay or stop sale delay.....portrayed as "if you drive it, you'll die"? Still not disagreeing that it could be that it's somewhat underwhelming; but, I wouldn't have expected it to "sell out" on pre-orders either. Not at the price it is. And considering the months long stop sale, I would say it's selling fine. Now, without saying what I can't say, the next few years should prove to be interesting.
I am the technical trainer of Toyota/Lexus for Belgium and Luxemburg so i switch quite often vehicles. Today in did drive a BZ4x home. With the updates done it drives better than everyone says. It is good. Yes, the interior is strange. Yes, the upper screen is odd placed and the optics could be more futuristic. But it drives good. Did a 100 km drive ( 65 miles) highway.
This weekend the Lexus RZ....
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Old 01-25-2024, 02:48 PM   #741
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2024 gets some updates; low-speed (traffic) hands-free driving and charging improvements.

https://media.subaru.com/pressreleas...g-new-features
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Old 01-25-2024, 07:27 PM   #742
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I bought my 2003 Baja with the intent to put my Leaf motor/pack in it...
Why is it so hard for Legacy makers to built a small, capable, affordable EV?
I debated buying one of the above, but here in CA when I was looking people wanted a small fortune for any EV's (Dec 2022). So I got a wrecked Tesla instead...
But I still want a small AWD EV for around town.
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Old 01-26-2024, 07:45 AM   #743
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I bought my 2003 Baja with the intent to put my Leaf motor/pack in it...
Why is it so hard for Legacy makers to built a small, capable, affordable EV?
I debated buying one of the above, but here in CA when I was looking people wanted a small fortune for any EV's (Dec 2022). So I got a wrecked Tesla instead...
But I still want a small AWD EV for around town.
The answer is: Because this car is a Toyota, not a Subaru. Subaru has more coming down the line and maybe will meet your needs.

We had an '05 Baja T also, my wife loved it, I loved everything but the seating (because it had a sunroof, my head rubbed) which over time turned into loathing about it because I'd come out looking like I hadn't showered. I had to wear a baseball hat every time I was in there to keep my hair down (and I don't have much)

And thank you for your service.
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Old 01-26-2024, 10:50 AM   #744
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I bought my 2003 Baja with the intent to put my Leaf motor/pack in it...
Why is it so hard for Legacy makers to built a small, capable, affordable EV?
I debated buying one of the above, but here in CA when I was looking people wanted a small fortune for any EV's (Dec 2022). So I got a wrecked Tesla instead...
But I still want a small AWD EV for around town.
Small is not popular enough to offset the costs of development.
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Old 01-26-2024, 01:14 PM   #745
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Small is not popular enough to offset the costs of development.
It's beyond offsetting development costs. Look at VW. The American corporate arm refuses to bring us the ID.3. It exists, it's not like they need to justify development costs. Sure, they had the Golf EV before and it didn't sell well, but it really was just a compliance vehicle with low range.

But no, they only bring a CUV that costs 10K+ more. Honestly, I think the average American financial illiteracy comes into play when the American cooperate side makes the decision on what cars to import. They know that Americans will just ignore the price tag and chase a monthly payment and they can make the numbers work with longer financing.

I personally refuse, hence why I'm driving pretty much the cheapest and smallest EV out there right now, despite the fact that I could absolutely afford to drive one of the more expensive ones.
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Old 01-26-2024, 01:21 PM   #746
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It's beyond offsetting development costs. Look at VW. The American corporate arm refuses to bring us the ID.3. It exists, it's not like they need to justify development costs. Sure, they had the Golf EV before and it didn't sell well, but it really was just a compliance vehicle with low range.

But no, they only bring a CUV that costs 10K+ more. Honestly, I think the average American financial illiteracy comes into play when the American cooperate side makes the decision on what cars to import. They know that Americans will just ignore the price tag and chase a monthly payment and they can make the numbers work with longer financing.

I personally refuse, hence why I'm driving pretty much the cheapest and smallest EV out there right now, despite the fact that I could absolutely afford to drive one of the more expensive ones.
Why would they sell a smaller ID.3 if they discontinued the Golf? It's just not going to be popular enough to federalize and sell here. Maybe we will get a Golf EV, but I would bet it grows to be more like an EV6 SUV-Hatch-Thing.
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Old 01-26-2024, 05:54 PM   #747
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Why would they sell a smaller ID.3 if they discontinued the Golf? It's just not going to be popular enough to federalize and sell here. Maybe we will get a Golf EV, but I would bet it grows to be more like an EV6 SUV-Hatch-Thing.
And I'll continue to show no interest, despite being part of their target demographic. An EV is not a long distance vehicle for me, so I really don't care for a large vehicle. My ICE, sure, let's make it big to fit lots of people and stuff for road trips. But for my regional commuter EV, I'd rather smaller for easier navigation and parking on narrow streets. A golf sized EV would be perfect.

The TM3 is super popular and not large. I just don't want a tesla. These legacy manufacturers (or should I say their boomer CEO's) are just stuck in this mindset that they need to provide big ass mfing ev's, but the market appears to be getting saturated on CUV EV's. Time to branch out to other segments.
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Old 01-26-2024, 06:04 PM   #748
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And I'll continue to show no interest, despite being part of their target demographic. An EV is not a long distance vehicle for me, so I really don't care for a large vehicle. My ICE, sure, let's make it big to fit lots of people and stuff for road trips. But for my regional commuter EV, I'd rather smaller for easier navigation and parking on narrow streets. A golf sized EV would be perfect.

The TM3 is super popular and not large. I just don't want a tesla. These legacy manufacturers (or should I say their boomer CEO's) are just stuck in this mindset that they need to provide big ass mfing ev's, but the market appears to be getting saturated on CUV EV's. Time to branch out to other segments.
ID.3 = 168"
TM3 = 186"

Now, the Volvo EX30 is 168" also. It will be interesting to see if it is popular in the US. If it is, then a ID.3X could be a good idea.

PS, I think the whole ID nomenclature is terrible.
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Old 01-26-2024, 06:56 PM   #749
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ID.3 = 168"
TM3 = 186"

Now, the Volvo EX30 is 168" also. It will be interesting to see if it is popular in the US. If it is, then a ID.3X could be a good idea.

PS, I think the whole ID nomenclature is terrible.
That's just hatch vs sedan dimensions. It is definitely bigger than a golf or ID.3, but not drastically. It's not CUV big.

I like the ex30. Have my eye on it as a potential future replacement for the leaf.
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Old 01-27-2024, 05:35 PM   #750
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I did a thing, with a big discount.

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