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Old 09-16-2022, 01:40 AM   #7776
rallly 4
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Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Yeap, the brakes are weak sauce.
Which WRXs or Subaru products have you personally paid for with your own money since they’re better than sliced bread
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Old 09-16-2022, 01:41 AM   #7777
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
[/b]

Ah, but the WRX is no longer a track car. It is made to take kids to their gender neutral scouting events. So it is a non issue. Everything about the WRX is about being a decent commuter car. No rally inspired anything is left in the thing.

Congratulations, this is the BEST thing I’ve read on a car forum since everyone’s lost their minds circa 2018/19

100% agree. It’s disgusting what this brands turning into. They want to appeal to the “let’s teach kindergartners they can be the opposite sex” crowd before their own most loyal fan base.
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Old 09-16-2022, 05:03 AM   #7778
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the WRX has always been the competent commuter vehicle. The only thing that's changed is the competition.

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Old 09-16-2022, 09:22 AM   #7779
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the WRX has always been the competent commuter vehicle. The only thing that's changed is the competition.

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The reason I bought a WRX wagon was because it was a relatively fun family vehicle that could tow a small trailer (and that I couldn't get my hands on a 6mt CTS-V wagon).

You can't say the only thing that has changed is the competition, the WRX has changed significantly over the years as well, Subaru used to offer a wagon, then a hatch, the WRX also used to be rated to tow; being fun, but having a practical side is what won me over, not the vehicle name or make, I bought a WRX over an STi specifically for the extra practicality.

When I compared the STi on offer to everything else out there when I bought my IS a few years ago, there wasn't much it offered that my IS didn't; literally the only desirable thing the STi had that the IS didn't was a 6mt, but that wasn't enough for me to put up with the EJ that would need a tune on day 1, the crappy suspension tuning. I was going to stuck in a Sedan with very little utility, so I chose the significantly nicer one and it actually ended up being cheaper than an STi would have been.

If a 6mt WRX or STi wagon were offered (damn you Doll) I probably would have bought one.

Now the VB WRX is out, there is no STi, WRX prices are ridiculous for what you get, styling is, lets just say not in the realm of my particular tastes, it gets similar fuel economy to an f150, while being slower to 60 than an F150; I can't imagine anyone buying a WRX, unless having a Subaru badge is a must for them.
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Old 09-16-2022, 10:00 AM   #7780
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I honestly don't think the WRX has changed much if you're comparing sedan to sedan. Still has small brakes. It did gain a 6MT, but it's still based on a weak 5MT. Sure it has gotten heavier, but it's safer and relatively light for what it offers. The only reason people complain about the WRX is because they're comparing it to other cars that "perform" better. But I've never considered the WRX the pinnacle of performance. That's what the STI was for and that's why I bought a 2005 STI back in the day when I could've easily had the WRX. In 2010 I purchased a 2011 WRX, decided to try the WRX just to give it a fair chance and make an attempt to "stay in my lane". That was easily the worst Subaru I've ever owned (and I went through two engines on the 01 2.5 RS coupe ).

It was nice of Subaru to offer LSDs in the day, along with brakes that looked good. And then offer a Performance Package later. But the WRX will always be a competent commuter vehicle. The STI is the one where I actually found performance comparisons to be interesting, beyond 0-60 times, which are fairly pointless since most people won't drive their car anywhere near the recorded time.
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Old 09-16-2022, 10:18 AM   #7781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
[/b]

Ah, but the WRX is no longer a track car. ... Everything about the WRX is about being a decent commuter car. No rally inspired anything is left in the thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
Congratulations, this is the BEST thing I’ve read on a car forum since everyone’s lost their minds circa 2018/19

100% agree. It’s disgusting what this brands turning into. They want to appeal to the ... crowd before their own most loyal fan base.
Guys, the WRX has always been a Swiss army knife; designed for buyers that wanted a daily commuter and weekend auto-xing. The car came in a wagon for a reason. The coolest people driving the WRX in 2002 were Dads with car seats in the back and a trunk monkey hanging in the window. The WRX has never been a true track car, it's always been a street-sleeper, meant to make Porsche's, etc think twice.

I get the anger over cladding, etc, but let's calm down on the political/ideological stuff, especially when it really has nothing to do with the current cladding situation, and could get this thread shut down.
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Old 09-16-2022, 10:22 AM   #7782
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Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
Congratulations, this is the BEST thing I've read on a car forum since everyone's lost their minds circa 2018/19

100% agree. It's disgusting what this brands turning into. They want to appeal to the "let's teach kindergartners they can be the opposite sex" crowd before their own most loyal fan base.



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Old 09-16-2022, 10:23 AM   #7783
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Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
Congratulations, this is the BEST thing I’ve read on a car forum since everyone’s lost their minds circa 2018/19

100% agree. It’s disgusting what this brands turning into. They want to appeal to the “let’s teach kindergartners they can be the opposite sex” crowd before their own most loyal fan base.





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Old 09-16-2022, 10:25 AM   #7784
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Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
Congratulations, this is the BEST thing I’ve read on a car forum since everyone’s lost their minds circa 2018/19

100% agree. It’s disgusting what this brands turning into. They want to appeal to the “let’s teach kindergartners they can be the opposite sex” crowd before their own most loyal fan base.











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Old 09-16-2022, 11:11 AM   #7785
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Guys, the WRX has always been a Swiss army knife; designed for buyers that wanted a daily commuter and weekend auto-xing. The car came in a wagon for a reason. The coolest people driving the WRX in 2002 were Dads with car seats in the back and a trunk monkey hanging in the window. The WRX has never been a true track car, it's always been a street-sleeper, meant to make Porsche's, etc think twice.

I get the anger over cladding, etc, but let's calm down on the political/ideological stuff, especially when it really has nothing to do with the current cladding situation, and could get this thread shut down.
I agree with you mostly, but the one thing that Subaru offered us up until say 2012ish is value. Every generation of the car got nicer for sure, but for a while they were adding performance in some area. We have a car now that has not kept up with not only itself, but the competition just offers more. The performance world moved on and Subaru has chosen to give us a lifted sedan with meh performance and hideous body cladding.

They did not give us a performance sedan because well it does not perform that well

They did not give us an ideal commuter as they chose the least practical shape and it gets horrible mileage

It does nothing well, and its too dang expensive.

Hyundia owns this segment now. Toyota is making a sporty car renaissance

There is not even anything to look forward to, as the STI we loved is dead.
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Old 09-16-2022, 11:53 AM   #7786
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I agree with you mostly, but the one thing that Subaru offered us up until say 2012ish is value. Every generation of the car got nicer for sure, but for a while they were adding performance in some area. We have a car now that has not kept up with not only itself, but the competition just offers more. The performance world moved on and Subaru has chosen to give us a lifted sedan with meh performance and hideous body cladding.

They did not give us a performance sedan because well it does not perform that well

They did not give us an ideal commuter as they chose the least practical shape and it gets horrible mileage

It does nothing well, and its too dang expensive.

Hyundia owns this segment now. Toyota is making a sporty car renaissance

There is not even anything to look forward to, as the STI we loved is dead.
Why are people "hung up" on this lifted sedan thing? a HALF inch; but, with a lower CoG than the HALF inch lower car?

Doesn't perform "that well"? I'm not claiming it's best in class cause we've all seen the other cars beating it; but, they are not beating it by THAT much to say it doesn't perform "that well".

The rest I won't argue; but, would still argue it's still the best overall value. And THAT is what Subaru is good at giving their customers.
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Old 09-16-2022, 12:22 PM   #7787
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half inch is a big deal. People buy springs to lower 1/2".
How did they raise the car but it has a lower CG?

I would like to know. That means they lowered the CG over a half inch. That is not easy.
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Old 09-16-2022, 12:38 PM   #7788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I agree with you mostly, but the one thing that Subaru offered us up until say 2012ish is value. Every generation of the car got nicer for sure, but for a while they were adding performance in some area. We have a car now that has not kept up with not only itself, but the competition just offers more. The performance world moved on and Subaru has chosen to give us a lifted sedan with meh performance and hideous body cladding.

They did not give us a performance sedan because well it does not perform that well

They did not give us an ideal commuter as they chose the least practical shape and it gets horrible mileage

It does nothing well, and its too dang expensive.

Hyundia owns this segment now. Toyota is making a sporty car renaissance

There is not even anything to look forward to, as the STI we loved is dead.
Again, I am not defending the 2022's short-comings. I am merely expressing that the WRX has always been a compromise, and designed to be easier to live with than a track focused car. The 2022 has a ton of issues and they need to be addressed.

I agree the WRX should never have given an inch to the competition. I get that they are FWD, so not really in its class, but people should never ever cross shop the WRX vs Civic, Elantra or GTI and not automatically pick the WRX (save for interior materials or other non-performance metrics which VW should always win).

With the STI being dead, it feels like Subaru has abandoned us, and this WRX is an example of mailing it in. I agree. No arguments here. It's a sad day and Subaru has made a lot of odd choices recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Why are people "hung up" on this lifted sedan thing? a HALF inch; but, with a lower CoG than the HALF inch lower car?

Doesn't perform "that well"? I'm not claiming it's best in class cause we've all seen the other cars beating it; but, they are not beating it by THAT much to say it doesn't perform "that well".

The rest I won't argue; but, would still argue it's still the best overall value. And THAT is what Subaru is good at giving their customers.
The WRX does not really have "in class" competitors. What it does have is a legacy. Unfortunately, this is not continuous improvement, it is stagnation. Every new WRX should be better than the last. I don't think this one is. Especially in terms of performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
half inch is a big deal. People buy springs to lower 1/2".
How did they raise the car but it has a lower CG?

I would like to know. That means they lowered the CG over a half inch. That is not easy.
Per Subaru (here) the SGP has a lower center of gravity. Also, the VB overall height (roof) is lower than the VA, despite the increased ground clearance.

VA 4.9" ride height / 58.1" overall height

VB 5.4" ride height / 57.8" overall height

Last edited by Snow Drift; 09-16-2022 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 09-16-2022, 12:53 PM   #7789
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
half inch is a big deal. People buy springs to lower 1/2".
How did they raise the car but it has a lower CG?

I would like to know. That means they lowered the CG over a half inch. That is not easy.
Yeah Subaru went the wrong way with the ground clearance but at the same time a lot of the people that drove older generations have moved on from Subaru and I think they are trying to appeal to the younger generations that are more interested in CUV's, usability, and image of an active lifestyle. I really can't come up with any other reason for them to make it look like a Crosstrek. I can't fault them as I have moved on so I wouldn't expect them to cater to me. I can't imagine I will own another Subaru as I've been fortunate enough to be able to drive better cars from better brands and it's really hard to go back to Subaru's basic offerings once you have got accustomed to better vehicles.
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Old 09-16-2022, 01:16 PM   #7790
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Why are people "hung up" on this lifted sedan thing? a HALF inch; but, with a lower CoG than the HALF inch lower car?
More importantly, even with the increase to 5.4", the VB still has less ground clearance than any pre-VA WRX or STI.

2002 WRX: 6.1"
2004 WRX: 6.1"
2004 STI: 5.7 "
2006 WRX: 6.3"
2006 STI: 5.7"
2008 WRX: 6.1"
2010 WRX/STI: 6.1"
2011 WRX: 6.1"
2011 STI: 5.9"
2015 WRX/STI: 4.9"
2023 Legacy: 5.9" (just for something totally different)

The VA was an outlier. The Hawkeye WRX had a whopping 6.3". Either all pre-VA versions were also "lifted sedans" (or wagons/hatches as the case may have been)--and if that's the argument, at least it's consistent--or the whole "lifted sedan" thing w.r.t. the VB is a distraction and a non-starter.
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Old 09-16-2022, 01:27 PM   #7791
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Originally Posted by nightVzn View Post
More importantly, even with the increase to 5.4", the VB still has less ground clearance than any pre-VA WRX or STI.

2002 WRX: 6.1"
2004 WRX: 6.1"
2004 STI: 5.7 "
2006 WRX: 6.3"
2006 STI: 5.7"
2008 WRX: 6.1"
2010 WRX/STI: 6.1"
2011 WRX: 6.1"
2011 STI: 5.9"
2015 WRX/STI: 4.9"
2023 Legacy: 5.9" (just for something totally different)

The VA was an outlier. The Hawkeye WRX had a whopping 6.3". Either all pre-VA versions were also "lifted sedans" (or wagons/hatches as the case may have been)--and if that's the argument, at least it's consistent--or the whole "lifted sedan" thing w.r.t. the VB is a distraction and a non-starter.
That is great work. Shows the changes over time and I guess the current one isn't bad, but not nearly as good as the last gen.

The cladding, side skirts and wheel gap is what turns the WRX into a Crosstrek sedan.
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:03 PM   #7792
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Again, I am not defending the 2022's short-comings. I am merely expressing that the WRX has always been a compromise, and designed to be easier to live with than a track focused car. The 2022 has a ton of issues and they need to be addressed.

I agree the WRX should never have given an inch to the competition. I get that they are FWD, so not really in its class, but people should never ever cross shop the WRX vs Civic, Elantra or GTI and not automatically pick the WRX (save for interior materials or other non-performance metrics which VW should always win).

With the STI being dead, it feels like Subaru has abandoned us, and this WRX is an example of mailing it in. I agree. No arguments here. It's a sad day and Subaru has made a lot of odd choices recently.


The WRX does not really have "in class" competitors. What it does have is a legacy. Unfortunately, this is not continuous improvement, it is stagnation. Every new WRX should be better than the last. I don't think this one is. Especially in terms of performance.
I don't think AWD vs FWD would necessarily mean different classes.

Performance wise, this car has never been intended to be a 0-60. So far, all I've seen are inconsistent numbers from tracks. I've seen some internal stuff that shows a very consistent improvement......albeit nothing major.....in lap times. The rest of the car(subjectively obviously with the comments on here) has been much better each version. Not saying some things don't need to be "fixed"; but, "tons of things"? Nah
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:14 PM   #7793
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Originally Posted by nightVzn View Post
More importantly, even with the increase to 5.4", the VB still has less ground clearance than any pre-VA WRX or STI.

2002 WRX: 6.1"
2004 WRX: 6.1"
2004 STI: 5.7 "
2006 WRX: 6.3"
2006 STI: 5.7"
2008 WRX: 6.1"
2010 WRX/STI: 6.1"
2011 WRX: 6.1"
2011 STI: 5.9"
2015 WRX/STI: 4.9"
2023 Legacy: 5.9" (just for something totally different)

The VA was an outlier. The Hawkeye WRX had a whopping 6.3". Either all pre-VA versions were also "lifted sedans" (or wagons/hatches as the case may have been)--and if that's the argument, at least it's consistent--or the whole "lifted sedan" thing w.r.t. the VB is a distraction and a non-starter.
2006 WRX had 6.1" of ground clearance, not 6.3"
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:19 PM   #7794
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2006 WRX had 6.1" of ground clearance, not 6.3"
Source? The specs listed in the MY2006 owner's manual say 6.3" for 2.5i and WRX sedan and wagon, 5.7" for STI, and 6.7" for Outback Sport.
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:32 PM   #7795
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Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
Congratulations, this is the BEST thing I’ve read on a car forum since everyone’s lost their minds circa 2018/19

100% agree. It’s disgusting what this brands turning into. They want to appeal to the “let’s teach kindergartners they can be the opposite sex” crowd before their own most loyal fan base.
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:52 PM   #7796
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I don't think AWD vs FWD would necessarily mean different classes.

Performance wise, this car has never been intended to be a 0-60. So far, all I've seen are inconsistent numbers from tracks. I've seen some internal stuff that shows a very consistent improvement......albeit nothing major.....in lap times. The rest of the car(subjectively obviously with the comments on here) has been much better each version. Not saying some things don't need to be "fixed"; but, "tons of things"? Nah
FWD vs AWD is completely a different class. They have different: buyers, costs, driving physics, mechanical configurations, capabilities, fuel efficiency, tire replacement requirements, etc. I get that some cars come in FWD and AWD, or RWD and AWD, but they are different enough.

Civic Si, GTI, Elantra N - That's the FWD sporty segment (CTR is on another level)
WRX, Golf R - That's the AWD sporty segment
Mustang, Camaro, Z - That's the RWD muscle car segment
BRZ, GR86, Miata - That's the RWD sporty segment
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:57 PM   #7797
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Originally Posted by nightVzn View Post
Source? The specs listed in the MY2006 owner's manual say 6.3" for 2.5i and WRX sedan and wagon, 5.7" for STI, and 6.7" for Outback Sport.
6.1" - WRX
5.7" - STI

Per the Bible:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/imprez...tml#dimensions

Per Edmunds:
https://www.edmunds.com/subaru/impre...eatures-specs/

6.3" - WRX
5.7" - STI

Per manual:
https://carmanuals2.com/subaru/impre...8579/page-333/
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:06 PM   #7798
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
FWD vs AWD is completely a different class. They have different: buyers, costs, driving physics, mechanical configurations, capabilities, fuel efficiency, tire replacement requirements, etc. I get that some cars come in FWD and AWD, or RWD and AWD, but they are different enough.

Civic Si, GTI, Elantra N - That's the FWD sporty segment (CTR is on another level)
WRX, Golf R - That's the AWD sporty segment
Mustang, Camaro, Z - That's the RWD muscle car segment
BRZ, GR86, Miata - That's the RWD sporty segment
How the class is defined is highly dependent on regional factors. Price and Form Factor often take precedent. In NC, I don't personally shop along these lines. When AWD is no longer functionally required (at all), it just becomes another feature to be considered.

Its highely likely that the majority of people that buy the WRX/STI do not need AWD. (Simply based on the number of these cars I see on the West Coast and the South East).

In my area, the WRX is commonly cross-shopped against the sporty FWD, AWD and RWD (new and used) segment cars in the same price range 28k-35k~.
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:08 PM   #7799
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It really has gotten hard to justify what Subaru has done with the WRX/STI. About the only nice things I can say about this current car is that at least it's AWD, and at least if you can get one at MSRP the base trim is a pretty good deal in today's blown up market. Otherwise the VB is a total stinker. It has all of the drawbacks of the Crosstrek or Outback as far as the looks/cladding, but none of the benefits of having a usable hatch plus a higher ride height.



It really should not have been that hard for Subaru to do these cars justice. Give us a hot hatch or wagon WRX with ~300HP, and have an STI version with the diffs/DCCD and 325-350HP. Instead they totally screwed things up lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
The reason I bought a WRX wagon was because it was a relatively fun family vehicle that could tow a small trailer (and that I couldn't get my hands on a 6mt CTS-V wagon).

You can't say the only thing that has changed is the competition, the WRX has changed significantly over the years as well, Subaru used to offer a wagon, then a hatch, the WRX also used to be rated to tow; being fun, but having a practical side is what won me over, not the vehicle name or make, I bought a WRX over an STi specifically for the extra practicality.

When I compared the STi on offer to everything else out there when I bought my IS a few years ago, there wasn't much it offered that my IS didn't; literally the only desirable thing the STi had that the IS didn't was a 6mt, but that wasn't enough for me to put up with the EJ that would need a tune on day 1, the crappy suspension tuning. I was going to stuck in a Sedan with very little utility, so I chose the significantly nicer one and it actually ended up being cheaper than an STi would have been.

If a 6mt WRX or STi wagon were offered (damn you Doll) I probably would have bought one.

Now the VB WRX is out, there is no STi, WRX prices are ridiculous for what you get, styling is, lets just say not in the realm of my particular tastes, it gets similar fuel economy to an f150, while being slower to 60 than an F150; I can't imagine anyone buying a WRX, unless having a Subaru badge is a must for them.

Killing a wagon or hatch option really sucked a lot of the appeal out of the WRX/STI for me. Basically everything in this segment is a compromise, but having the only option being a sedan really sucks hard. I had two hot hatches before my current WRX, and now that I'm back in a sedan I really miss the usability of the hatch. If I ever buy another Subaru it's going to be a used hatchback or wagon.

Last edited by Apharmd; 09-16-2022 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:09 PM   #7800
Straight6
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The WRX is a direct competitor to the Si, GTI, GLI, N...Not the Golf R or the CTR. That was the STi. Also, dynamically the VB is the best WRX to date. It improved on all of the complaints with the VA.
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