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Old 07-17-2022, 11:07 AM   #201
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I don't know what's being gained or lost by way of this conversation. Potentially useful information? Undeniable loss of time? Who could say.
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Old 07-17-2022, 11:59 AM   #202
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The only thing coming out of this conversation pertaining with who's right or wrong, is locking the thread. You'll have some who believe, speculate, be right, be wrong, not care or take with a grain of salt. Who cares... Enjoy the forum and most importantly, enjoy life!
EDIT:
We will also get back to basics... you don't start a thread unless you have a source linked in your post. If you can't provide one, it will get locked or deleted.
rallly 4: You have 24 hrs to do this or this thread goes away.

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Old 07-17-2022, 12:44 PM   #203
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Like I said, there is zero link to this info. You know that. This is inside information privy to only a handful of ears. SoD has conflicting information. We really don't know who is right and who is wrong. Nor does it matter. If a product comes from the alleged grumblings within, it doesn't prove SoD wrong. If nothing comes from it, it doesn't prove rally 4 wrong. Subaru Japan are the only ones who can act on information. Rally 4 stated Subaru Japan is brushing it off as new model pains. Totally believable. But if they move their timeline up for refresh plans to make SOA happy, nobody was proven wrong or right here. And it's in nobody's interest for a rag to publish any of this because it's an evolving unverifiable mess.

This thread is necessary IMO. Please don't lock it. Can you just rename it the "WRX Refresh" thread to tone down the clickbait? And when a rag publishes something official it can be put in the OP.
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:08 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Like I said, there is zero link to this info. You know that. This is inside information privy to only a handful of ears. SoD has conflicting information. We really don't know who is right and who is wrong. Nor does it matter. If a product comes from the alleged grumblings within, it doesn't prove SoD wrong. If nothing comes from it, it doesn't prove rally 4 wrong. Subaru Japan are the only ones who can act on information. Rally 4 stated Subaru Japan is brushing it off as new model pains. Totally believable. But if they move their timeline up for refresh plans to make SOA happy, nobody was proven wrong or right here. And it's in nobody's interest for a rag to publish any of this because it's an evolving unverifiable mess.

This thread is necessary IMO. Please don't lock it. Can you just rename it the "WRX Refresh" thread to tone down the clickbait? And when a rag publishes something official it can be put in the OP.
If these things come to fruition, it does indeed prove me wrong. Iím definitively saying ďainít happenin.Ē If these things donít come to fruition, then rally 4 was selling you crap. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was talking to someone without a clue, but there are two big points he lied about including one documented on these forums. If my track record doesnít speak for itself, letís see how this unfolds in two model years.
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:10 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Like I said, there is zero link to this info. You know that. This is inside information privy to only a handful of ears. SoD has conflicting information. We really don't know who is right and who is wrong. Nor does it matter. If a product comes from the alleged grumblings within, it doesn't prove SoD wrong. If nothing comes from it, it doesn't prove rally 4 wrong. Subaru Japan are the only ones who can act on information. Rally 4 stated Subaru Japan is brushing it off as new model pains. Totally believable. But if they move their timeline up for refresh plans to make SOA happy, nobody was proven wrong or right here. And it's in nobody's interest for a rag to publish any of this because it's an evolving unverifiable mess.

This thread is necessary IMO. Please don't lock it. Can you just rename it the "WRX Refresh" thread to tone down the clickbait? And when a rag publishes something official it can be put in the OP.
There is no new model pain. The YTD sales are down because there is no STI for 2022 and Subaru reported STI/WRX combined. 22 WRX hit the lots in May with tons of chip and other part shortages at play. I am sure we will see some minor changes with the facelift, perhaps painted flares as an option other than that there is nothing in this thread but pure misinformation and speculation with ZERO reliable sources provided. This thread should have been locked a long time ago.
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:31 PM   #206
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That's the most normal, factual post I've ever seen you post. Color me impressed.

I'm certainly not a fan of the clickbait spin concerning sales. However, our collective observations of BRAND NEW 2022 WRX languishing on dealer lots does say something about how well they're being received. We won't know until we see numbers that say how long the WRX are sitting on lots.

I haven't met a single person who finds the 2022 WRX exciting, whether long-standing, casual, or newly-acquainted fans of Subaru.
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:55 PM   #207
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"While there are some issues with the new WRX, the significant drop in sales is due to Subaru dropping the next-generation WRX STI. Subaru of America is selling around the same number of the WRX sports car as last year, but Subaru also included the STI in sales numbers."

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/next...there-s-no-sti

"1. Subaru WRX
DTT: 6.76
Average markup: $595

The hottest new car on sale is the Subaru WRX. On average, it spends less than a week on dealer lots before a lucky buyer scoops it up. Like its BRZ stablemate, the WRX was redesigned for 2022 and has its own hardcore fanbase. Highlights of this sport sedan include rapid acceleration, composed handling and, of course, an available manual transmission."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/mos...-may-2022.html
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:58 PM   #208
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Thank.
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Old 07-17-2022, 04:59 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
"While there are some issues with the new WRX, the significant drop in sales is due to Subaru dropping the next-generation WRX STI. Subaru of America is selling around the same number of the WRX sports car as last year, but Subaru also included the STI in sales numbers."



https://www.torquenews.com/1084/next...there-s-no-sti



"1. Subaru WRX

DTT: 6.76

Average markup: $595



The hottest new car on sale is the Subaru WRX. On average, it spends less than a week on dealer lots before a lucky buyer scoops it up. Like its BRZ stablemate, the WRX was redesigned for 2022 and has its own hardcore fanbase. Highlights of this sport sedan include rapid acceleration, composed handling and, of course, an available manual transmission."



https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/mos...-may-2022.html
Both of these articles are meaningless. The first says sales may be bad because the STI was included in sales, but without knowing how many STIs we're sold how can you say whether that was 1000 cars, or 10?

The second article provides no source to understand how the ranking was calculated, and even if it was accurate, it was only good until April, and as Subaru has increased production the sales numbers don't appear to have gone up as well.

The fact that these cars are sitting on the lots in the current auto economy indicates that something is wrong. That doesn't mean the new WRX is a bad car, but it certainly seems to have missed it's intended mark.

It's reminiscent of the 04-06 GTO. Objectively it was good car, but it's bland looks kind of killed it in a market that needs an emotional connection to a car.

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Old 07-17-2022, 05:21 PM   #210
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Your opinion is meaningless, there is nothing wrong. These are selling quite well and will continue to do so because the 2022 WRX is a great sports sedan.
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Old 07-17-2022, 05:24 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigElm View Post
The only thing coming out of this conversation pertaining with who's right or wrong, is locking the thread. You'll have some who believe, speculate, be right, be wrong, not care or take with a grain of salt. Who cares... Enjoy the forum and most importantly, enjoy life!
EDIT:
We will also get back to basics... you don't start a thread unless you have a source linked in your post. If you can't provide one, it will get locked or deleted.
rallly 4: You have 24 hrs to do this or this thread goes away.
According to Webster a rumor has no discernable sourceÖ


RUMOR

noun

ru∑mor

Definition of rumor

1 : talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source

2 : a statement or report current without known authority
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Old 07-17-2022, 05:31 PM   #212
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Your opinion is meaningless, there is nothing wrong. These are selling quite well and will continue to do so because the 2022 WRX is a great sports sedan.
Other than the GTO statement what part of of my post was opinion? Both of those articles you posted are essentially opinion pieces as they provide no hard data. If you can show that removal of the STI sales numbers would make up for the 60% decilne in overall sales I'd happily help you scream it from the rooftops. Likewise if there are real numbers showing no other car on sale today sells faster than the WRX I'll eat crow tomorrow.

I also didn't say it wasn't a great sports sedan, the GTO was a great sports coupe at the time, but that didn't mean it was a success.

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Old 07-17-2022, 06:11 PM   #213
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Other than the GTO statement what part of of my post was opinion? Both of those articles you posted are essentially opinion pieces as they provide no hard data. If you can show that removal of the STI sales numbers would make up for the 60% decilne in overall sales I'd happily help you scream it from the rooftops. Likewise if there are real numbers showing no other car on sale today sells faster than the WRX I'll eat crow tomorrow.

I also didn't say it wasn't a great sports sedan, the GTO was a great sports coupe at the time, but that didn't mean it was a success.

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Do yourself a favor and compare MK7 GTI sales to the VA and then compare the MK8 GTI to VB WRX. Study the general trend...That's right. Look at the YTD sales, consider that the GTI was available much sooner in the year. Everything considered, the 2022 WRX is selling at a much, much higher rate than one of its closest competitors, that's a fact. FYI, STI was about 500 units a month on average, last June probably much higher. Also, new car sales in general in June 2022 were down 24.3% vs June 2021.

Last edited by Straight6; 07-17-2022 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 07-17-2022, 06:25 PM   #214
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Do yourself a favor and compare MK7 GTI sales to the VA and then compare the MK8 GTI to VB WRX...Study the trend...That's right. Look at the YTD sales, consider that the GTI was available much sooner in the year. Everything considered, the 2022 WRX is selling at a much, much higher rate than one of its closest competitors. Please stop adding to the misinformation in this thread. FYI, STI was about 500 units a month on average, last June probably much higher.

https://media.subaru.com/pressreleas...-q2-2022-sales

https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1694
So WRX has sold 6212 this year, and GTI has sold 4187. I suppose that's of interest to someone here, but has next to nothing to do with the talk of 2022 WRX sales being down.

The GTI has been lambasted by nearly every reviewer saying the Infotainment is a disaster and the prevailing recommendation has been to buy a older model if possible.

So their sales numbers are down, and I don't think anyone in this thread would be surprised if VW made some changes to the Infotainment within the next two years.

I don't see why a similar sentiment about the WRX is so blasphemous to some here. Most reviewers have said the looks of the WRX are a 'meh' at best, so why would it be surprising if within the next two years they altered the design.



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Old 07-17-2022, 06:51 PM   #215
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Both of these articles are meaningless. The first says sales may be bad because the STI was included in sales, but without knowing how many STIs we're sold how can you say whether that was 1000 cars, or 10?

The second article provides no source to understand how the ranking was calculated, and even if it was accurate, it was only good until April, and as Subaru has increased production the sales numbers don't appear to have gone up as well.

The fact that these cars are sitting on the lots in the current auto economy indicates that something is wrong. That doesn't mean the new WRX is a bad car, but it certainly seems to have missed it's intended mark.

It's reminiscent of the 04-06 GTO. Objectively it was good car, but it's bland looks kind of killed it in a market that needs an emotional connection to a car.

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Yeah. That SOA isn't being efficient in their allocations. They send "extra" cars to these other retailers to just sit? While there are, I do assume, MANY retailers out there with customers with sold orders just waiting. We have 4 customers now waiting on a car. IF any of those fit those orders, why did they not fill them and have more sales last month?
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Old 07-17-2022, 07:25 PM   #216
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Both of these articles are meaningless. The first says sales may be bad because the STI was included in sales, but without knowing how many STIs we're sold how can you say whether that was 1000 cars, or 10?

The second article provides no source to understand how the ranking was calculated, and even if it was accurate, it was only good until April, and as Subaru has increased production the sales numbers don't appear to have gone up as well.

The fact that these cars are sitting on the lots in the current auto economy indicates that something is wrong. That doesn't mean the new WRX is a bad car, but it certainly seems to have missed it's intended mark.

It's reminiscent of the 04-06 GTO. Objectively it was good car, but it's bland looks kind of killed it in a market that needs an emotional connection to a car.

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1) The first 22 WRX didn't go on sale until March
2) The first 22 WRX CVT didn't go on sale until April
3) The first month there was any volume of 22 WRX's was May
4) The prior gen ended production in September of last year.
5) The last volume month for the prior gen was December.
6) By January, there were very few prior gen WRX's available. 341 sales (only 10 more than BRZ, 31 in February, 204 in March,
6) There are no STI's in the WRX sales numbers like there would normally be.

4 months virtually nothing vs. a prior year of full sales for each month with STI added on top.

All of that being said, I do think WRX sales are softer than they should be considering a new car and the current automotive market, but it's far from the doom and gloom being painted here if one objectively looks at the production change over of WRX for this generation and the absence of STI.
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Old 07-17-2022, 07:26 PM   #217
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So WRX has sold 6212 this year, and GTI has sold 4187. I suppose that's of interest to someone here, but has next to nothing to do with the talk of 2022 WRX sales being down.

The GTI has been lambasted by nearly every reviewer saying the Infotainment is a disaster and the prevailing recommendation has been to buy a older model if possible.

So their sales numbers are down, and I don't think anyone in this thread would be surprised if VW made some changes to the Infotainment within the next two years.

I don't see why a similar sentiment about the WRX is so blasphemous to some here. Most reviewers have said the looks of the WRX are a 'meh' at best, so why would it be surprising if within the next two years they altered the design.



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Subaru sold 6,212 WRX in the last 2-3 months...It didn't show up at the dealerships until April-May. The comparison to the GTI is significant because they are direct competitors in the US market and comparing the sales data between the two shows that the WRX is doing extremely well, despite the misinformation posted in this thread.

If you want to dissect the numbers further, let's look at 2021 vs 2022 June sales. So we are at around 1,854 WRX models sold in June 21 (as I said they sold around 500 STI models a month) vs 1,465 sold in June 22. So around 390 units more in June 21. Now take into consideration some major factors:

-Supply chain issues.
-Higher demand for the STI in the summer of 21 (probably sold more than 500 that month).
-Overall new car sales drop of 24.3 percent in June 22 vs June 21.

The article I posted is spot on, the 2022 is selling at a similar rate if not better than the VA.
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Old 07-17-2022, 08:52 PM   #218
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All of that being said, I do think WRX sales are softer than they should be considering a new car and the current automotive market, but it's far from the doom and gloom being painted here if one objectively looks at the production change over of WRX for this generation and the absence of STI.
Right now, cars are selling at one of two rates of speed:

1) Selling well.

2) Everything coming in on the truck is presold and you gotta get on a list pre ordering one.

Five years ago, the AVERAGE new car sat on a lot for 70 days, back in the days of high inventory and big incentives. Now, the WORST selling cars are only on the lot 50-60 days! (Both bits of info were from quick google searches on the subject)

Its going to be very difficult for manufacturers to make decisions on models because of this market skewing reality of how successful a model is or not because everything is selling. Especially when sales numbers of individual models are down almost across the board, regardless of being a new or old model.

Right now, it seems like due to actual availability and demand, the new WRX fits into category 1 while the BRZ/GR86 is fitting into category 2.
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Old 07-17-2022, 09:43 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by BigElm View Post
The only thing coming out of this conversation pertaining with who's right or wrong, is locking the thread. You'll have some who believe, speculate, be right, be wrong, not care or take with a grain of salt. Who cares... Enjoy the forum and most importantly, enjoy life!
EDIT:
We will also get back to basics... you don't start a thread unless you have a source linked in your post. If you can't provide one, it will get locked or deleted.
rallly 4: You have 24 hrs to do this or this thread goes away.
You canít start a discussion without a link to a source? So if Iím relaying information Iím getting directly from Subaru and discussing it for the sake of conversation, it will get deleted?

This is the news and rumors section after all. If we where to call this a rumor, there wouldnít be a legitimate link from a website to refer toÖ..after all its a ďrumorĒ
Actually, most of the information that can be linked from websites has shown to be incorrect. I think everyone in this thread is enjoying the discussion with the exception of SO, and to delete it is only hurting the forum itself.

There has been many other threads with pointless information and rumors that have not been deleted. I see zero reason to do so. Youíre only hurting the people that actually still log onto this website.

People wonder why forums are dying.
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Old 07-17-2022, 10:15 PM   #220
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Right now, cars are selling at one of two rates of speed:

1) Selling well.

2) Everything coming in on the truck is presold and you gotta get on a list pre ordering one.

Five years ago, the AVERAGE new car sat on a lot for 70 days, back in the days of high inventory and big incentives. Now, the WORST selling cars are only on the lot 50-60 days! (Both bits of info were from quick google searches on the subject)

Its going to be very difficult for manufacturers to make decisions on models because of this market skewing reality of how successful a model is or not because everything is selling. Especially when sales numbers of individual models are down almost across the board, regardless of being a new or old model.

Right now, it seems like due to actual availability and demand, the new WRX fits into category 1 while the BRZ/GR86 is fitting into category 2.
The average Subaru hasnít taken 70 days to sell in over a decade. Subaruís days to turn was in the teens and 20ís depending on model before the pandemic. Every Subaru model is currently in the single digits or teens including the wrx. There are still plenty of metrics to indicate how a model might sell once the market returns to some sense of normalcy. From my perspective, WRX should be selling better considering its newness. That being said, the volume metrics are currently irrelevant due to the big gap between the old model to the new MT, to the new CVT to, to having production volume, as well as the loss of sti. Something Iím waiting to see is if the mix of the different trim levels is wrong and/or the inventory hasnít been distributed well.
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Old 07-17-2022, 10:24 PM   #221
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The average Subaru hasnít taken 70 days to sell in over a decade. Subaruís days to turn was in the teens and 20ís depending on model before the pandemic. Every Subaru model is currently in the single digits or teens including the wrx. There are still plenty of metrics to indicate how a model might sell once the market returns to some sense of normalcy. From my perspective, WRX should be selling better considering its newness. That being said, the volume metrics are currently irrelevant due to the big gap between the old model to the new MT, to the new CVT to, to having production volume, as well as the loss of sti. Something Iím waiting to see is if the mix of the different trim levels is wrong and/or the inventory hasnít been distributed well.
The new WRX just isnít selling period. The Subaru dealership in my town got 1 WRX last month.

Itís already been traded in at our local European used car dealership.

The biggest Subaru dealer in the state has LOADS of them. Theyíre all sitting on the lot.

I donít think the car is going to do well. How can you look at it and actually say itís even ďokĒ

Only someone who is a ďfanboyĒ as they call it will say otherwise
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Old 07-17-2022, 10:34 PM   #222
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The new WRX just isn't selling period. The Subaru dealership in my town got 1 WRX last month.

It's already been traded in at our local European used car dealership.

The biggest Subaru dealer in the state has LOADS of them. They're all sitting on the lot.

I don't think the car is going to do well. How can you look at it and actually say it's even "ok"

Only someone who is a "fanboy" as they call it will say otherwise
cars.com shows less than 1,000 WRX's in inventory nationally. That's less than 1.5 per dealer. If there are dealers with LOADS of them, that means there are LOADS of dealers with NONE of them. This WRX may or may not sell well in the long run, but you're currently in the realm of anecdote and hyperbole. I'd rather look at reality. WRX seems soft to me, but there are too many variables at the moment to call it one way or the other. What I do know is the product info you posted was garbage.

Last edited by SoDealer; 07-17-2022 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 07-17-2022, 10:45 PM   #223
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So it appears that some are under the impression that no matter where the WRX is located, if it's popular then it'll sell regardless of location. There shouldn't be any sitting on lots. Am I ascertaining correctly? Because I feel like, with how things are right now, no one can say what is or isn't supposed to sell "quickly". It's all relative and there are entirely too many variables.

SoDealer said as much anyway. So I'm not sure why there's confusion, or, again, why it matters. Only Subaru knows what's up with the future of the WRX/STI.
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Old 07-17-2022, 11:14 PM   #224
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cars.com shows less than 1,000 WRX's in inventory nationally. That's less than 1.5 per dealer.
Quick check of Cars.com, and hardly anything sedan wise is above 4 digits, with the highest inventory being the Charger/Challenger. The WRX currently seems to have the highest inventory (outside of the Dodge models) of any "inexpensive" sporty/performance car.

Meanwhile, there are 30 BRZ's...
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Old 07-17-2022, 11:27 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Quick check of Cars.com, and hardly anything sedan wise is above 4 digits, with the highest inventory being the Charger/Challenger. The WRX currently seems to have the highest inventory (outside of the Dodge models) of any "inexpensive" sporty/performance car.

Meanwhile, there are 30 BRZ's...
Fair point and definitely worth watching. BRZ might be a victim of ramping up WRX and the higher profit per unit WRX brings.
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