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Old 11-16-2023, 08:46 AM   #251
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To be fair. If the RS had a manual and/or (mostly and) a smidge more power like from the 1.8t or BRZ's 2.4, I'd be tempted over a base WRX. It would help if the Impreza had another seat material option too. Then the hatch and feature set would be a clear enough step up from a base WRX despite less power.
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:55 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post



At first I laugh, but then I stop and realize that this is just more proof that Subaru really has lost their minds.
The RS comes loaded with more features than a base WRX, plus the CVT. You can't just compare performance. Both cars are overpriced.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:14 AM   #253
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The RS comes loaded with more features than a base WRX, plus the CVT. You can't just compare performance. Both cars are overpriced.
I'm curious what you think the WRX is overpriced compared to. It probably wouldn't be my pick, but but it does seem like it's the budget option in the segment. Especially since it's marked down.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:20 AM   #254
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The RS comes loaded with more features than a base WRX, plus the CVT. You can't just compare performance. Both cars are overpriced.

The RS is "loaded", but it is loaded for-an-Impreza. We aren't talking about lavish luxury features here. The transmission is an obvious cost-adder over the WRX, sure, but these cars shouldn't be this close in price.
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Old 11-16-2023, 10:06 AM   #255
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They should have put that 228 hp 2.4 in there and a 6 speed.
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Old 11-16-2023, 10:34 AM   #256
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They should have put that 228 hp 2.4 in there and a 6 speed.
Exactly!! This should have been a step above the base...
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Old 11-17-2023, 12:57 AM   #257
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I'm curious what you think the WRX is overpriced compared to. It probably wouldn't be my pick, but but it does seem like it's the budget option in the segment. Especially since it's marked down.
They're ALL overpriced. But I'm comparing the WRX to itself in the past. I don't feel like it's offering significantly more than what I paid back in 2010 for my 2011 WRX Limited sedan. It's an improvement relatively because at least it can have 5x114.3 wheels, but the 6-speed isn't anything like the Aisin transmission in the STI or BRZ.
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The RS is "loaded", but it is loaded for-an-Impreza. We aren't talking about lavish luxury features here. The transmission is an obvious cost-adder over the WRX, sure, but these cars shouldn't be this close in price.
However you want to work that logic and rest peacefully at night is fine by me. You're the one comparing two different cars and saying the one with less horsepower shouldn't cost as much as the higher horsepower car. It's desperate, but steadily becoming more typical on this forum.
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Old 11-17-2023, 01:42 AM   #258
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However you want to work that logic and rest peacefully at night is fine by me. You're the one comparing two different cars and saying the one with less horsepower shouldn't cost as much as the higher horsepower car.
For reference, this is the first time ever the 2.5RS costs more than a base WRX. Very few Limited trim Imprezas have cost more than a base WRX.
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Old 11-17-2023, 07:59 AM   #259
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For reference, this is the first time ever an Impreza costs more than a base WRX.
WRX used to be always $3k-$4k more than the Impreza (Limited or Outback Sport as the two toppers of the range). I would say this is the first time, as I've gone back 15-20 years and haven't seen any Impreza limiteds higher or within $3k of the base WRX.

May see the WRX jump in MSRP next year.
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Old 11-17-2023, 08:58 AM   #260
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However you want to work that logic and rest peacefully at night is fine by me. You're the one comparing two different cars and saying the one with less horsepower shouldn't cost as much as the higher horsepower car. It's desperate, but steadily becoming more typical on this forum.

You already got your answers from the guys above - this has never happened before in Subaru's history with these cars.


In general, do the prices of cars overlap? Sure, of course they do. A loaded 3 series can be more than a base model 5. That isn't uncommon at all.


But an Impreza RS and WRX are not like that. They are essentially the same size, essentially the same platform and one isn't that much more loaded in terms of features than the other - we aren't talking about ambient lighting, panoramic sunroof, air suspension, perfumed interior, and other big option packages.


As KC mentioned, this is them getting ready to jack up the price of the WRX in a year or two - probably after a mid-cycle refresh. But doing this now, is just typical poor planning my SoA.
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Old 11-17-2023, 01:32 PM   #261
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Did you price out a basic Impreza RS vs a base WRX? Or are we going off the screenshot of the CA dealership stating "MSRP"? Because I don't see an options/accessory list. If you add those things, it'll still be MSRP. I'm not gonna look it up since my reception at work sucks, but I also don't care about a $100 price difference. The RS starts under $30k, IIRC.

It is amusing how priced out the 2.5 FB motor options have been since the Crosstrek Sport and Impreza RS, so I'm not at all shocked how close they are.

Edit:

Used my work computer (breakin all da rules), and RS is $27,885 and WRX is $30,605.

G T F O

Last edited by chanomatik; 11-17-2023 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 11-17-2023, 02:03 PM   #262
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Used my work computer (breakin all da rules), and RS is $27,885 and WRX is $30,605.

G T F O
The bright blue and steel grey add $400, the upgraded stereo is $2k, and add another $400 for homelink. Pretty standard options, and its $31,895 after delivery.

I still don't recall any optioned up 2.5RS going over a base WRX back in the day.
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Old 11-17-2023, 03:24 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
The bright blue and steel grey add $400, the upgraded stereo is $2k, and add another $400 for homelink. Pretty standard options, and its $31,895 after delivery.



I still don't recall any optioned up 2.5RS going over a base WRX back in the day.
Which is fine. There's a first time for everything. The top trim Impreza has top trim accessories and costs more than a base WRX. Shocker. Also base WRX stereo isn't the large touchscreen, plus other features that are considered more premium are on the Impreza but not the WRX.

I think a fully loaded RS is almost $40k once you slap on STI accessories. Just the wheels are $2.5k I think. It's ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as paying more for a 2.5L that used to be a standard motor. Sad world we live in.
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Old 11-18-2023, 07:08 PM   #264
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Old 12-04-2023, 04:32 AM   #265
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I refuse to buy a car with environmental controls integrated into a touchscreen without physical button alternatives. The Teslafication of car brands is annoying. For a feature that will not change, will not be upgraded, has no use being "appified" it makes ZERO sense to move such basic features into a touchscreen only setting where they become cumbersome and difficult to use. It distracts from driving and is an actual threat to safety (and sanity). Unless you tell me this car literally cures cancer, I'm not interested. No thanks.
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Old 12-04-2023, 07:49 AM   #266
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I refuse to buy a car with environmental controls integrated into a touchscreen without physical button alternatives. The Teslafication of car brands is annoying. For a feature that will not change, will not be upgraded, has no use being "appified" it makes ZERO sense to move such basic features into a touchscreen only setting where they become cumbersome and difficult to use. It distracts from driving and is an actual threat to safety (and sanity). Unless you tell me this car literally cures cancer, I'm not interested. No thanks.
Other mfrs are figuring that out already and reverting back to hard buttons, those that either did it earlier than subaru, or those that can plan, engineer and implement quicker. Subaru is neither of those. They were last to do it, and they planned it for the entire range meaning they won't take them out for a while.
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Old 12-06-2023, 04:12 PM   #267
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... ZERO sense to move such basic features into a touchscreen only setting where they become cumbersome and difficult to use. It distracts from driving and is an actual threat to safety (and sanity)....



Of god. Another one. "ZERO" sense, eh? . The idea is to utilize the auto control and/or verbally control it so your eyes NEVER come off the road and your hands NEVER come off the wheel. If there is any safety issue with this, that is SQUARELY on you and your inability to learn a quite simple thing. Subaru even provides that avenue and even gives you a little money to do it. Sooooo, what's safer?



"threat to safety".
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Old 12-06-2023, 05:54 PM   #268
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I do not like talking to machines. I do not need to be served and command inanimate objects. I do not voice text and I do tell my car what to do. I just want to hit a button in quiet. I am quite sure I am not the only one that feels like this.
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Old 12-06-2023, 06:50 PM   #269
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I do not like talking to machines. I do not need to be served and command inanimate objects. I do not voice text and I do tell my car what to do. I just want to hit a button in quiet. I am quite sure I am not the only one that feels like this.
Probably not the car for you then? It's an entry-level Subaru. Gotta do what the young folk are doin'. Hands-free is the way to be.

I use Google Assistant quite a bit when using Android Auto. I still have to remind myself that I don't need to press the steering wheel button to engage a call. I also don't utilize speech-to-text.

I do agree that changing settings with a knob is significantly quicker than talking to a computer and commanding it to adjust settings. But I suppose some people just can't be bothered to twist their own knobs with their hand that would be free if they weren't preoccupied with texting on their phone.
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Old 12-07-2023, 11:05 PM   #270
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Of god. Another one. "ZERO" sense, eh? . The idea is to utilize the auto control and/or verbally control it so your eyes NEVER come off the road and your hands NEVER come off the wheel. If there is any safety issue with this, that is SQUARELY on you and your inability to learn a quite simple thing. Subaru even provides that avenue and even gives you a little money to do it. Sooooo, what's safer?

"threat to safety".
As someone who owns a Lexus that has "all the physical" still; my eyes do not come off the road to make nearly all adjustments, it's all muscle memory; navigating the screen menus & rarely adjusted settings I do parked, because, Lexus & old-ass infotainment. bluetooth phone calls & majority of radio controls are on the steering wheel and all muscle memory. Changing drive modes & HVAC are muscle memory as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I do not like talking to machines. I do not need to be served and command inanimate objects. I do not voice text and I do tell my car what to do. I just want to hit a button in quiet. I am quite sure I am not the only one that feels like this.
As someone who does use voice to text on a phone that is running the latest iteration of android 14, and that is updated far more frequently than all auto manufacturers update their software & firmware (aside from maybe Tesla), voice to text is still rife with errors; I have serious doubts that Subaru voice commands are as good as the brand-loyalists are claiming they are. Every car I've owned/operated with voice commands absolutely sucks; what is there to suggest that Subaru, who has such minimal market share, and is touted as "the cheapest full-time AWD vehicle", would be able to do better than brands like Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Kia/Hyundai, BMW or VAG? Subaru couldn't even generate a proper fuel map for the EJ25T and FA20T during the entirety of their existence, and you expect me to believe they have industry leading voice commands implemented?
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Old 12-18-2023, 08:59 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I do not like talking to machines. I do not need to be served and command inanimate objects. I do not voice text and I do tell my car what to do. I just want to hit a button in quiet. I am quite sure I am not the only one that feels like this.

What about auto climate control. Do you change your home HVAC temps repeatedly? Why not choose the temp comfortable to you and leave it in auto. Won't have to do a thing then? IF you do, it would likely be a temp change and that IS a physical button you can push.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
As someone who owns a Lexus that has "all the physical" still; my eyes do not come off the road to make nearly all adjustments, it's all muscle memory; navigating the screen menus & rarely adjusted settings I do parked, because, Lexus & old-ass infotainment. bluetooth phone calls & majority of radio controls are on the steering wheel and all muscle memory. Changing drive modes & HVAC are muscle memory as well.



As someone who does use voice to text on a phone that is running the latest iteration of android 14, and that is updated far more frequently than all auto manufacturers update their software & firmware (aside from maybe Tesla), voice to text is still rife with errors; I have serious doubts that Subaru voice commands are as good as the brand-loyalists are claiming they are. Every car I've owned/operated with voice commands absolutely sucks; what is there to suggest that Subaru, who has such minimal market share, and is touted as "the cheapest full-time AWD vehicle", would be able to do better than brands like Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Kia/Hyundai, BMW or VAG? Subaru couldn't even generate a proper fuel map for the EJ25T and FA20T during the entirety of their existence, and you expect me to believe they have industry leading voice commands implemented?



The argument is about safety. You are taking your hand off the wheel. All things equal, that is less safe.....


Not a safety issue to you? Then neither is the 11.6 system. If it is learned properly.



Which leads me to the bolded part. I'd like to sit with you to find out what is not working properly. The only voice command issues I have are with the TomTom Nav. Which I just blame the mapping company and how they do their roads. Arkansas SUCKS. And some of Mississippi. But, the rest? I have zero issue with. No. it is nowhere near as nice as AA/CP; but, Subaru's system has improved a bit as I get surprised every now and again by customers. I tell them(what used to be the only way) the command to use; and, in typical fashion for some people, say something way different than I said, and the system recognizes it. Completely surprises me. And I'm not saying it's the best. But it is as good as I have been saying.





I feel many of the complainers about the 11.6 system are the ones that just try to figure things out on their own and won't take a bit of time to sit with a Delivery Specialist to be shown the ins and outs of the car. Then, when they have issues, it's the car's(and Subaru's) fault and not their own. Go. Spend 30-60 minutes with them. If anything, get a head start on trying to learn the things. And even get a little gas money out of it.





Now THAT you can say is a sales pitch of my job.
Though that doesn't matter cause none of you live near my retailer anyway.
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Old 12-18-2023, 12:46 PM   #272
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I like the option of voice commands. But, I also like dedicated, illuminated, viewable and tactile hard buttons too. Sometimes, one has sleeping passengers, or is on an active phone call, or listening to something that one would prefer not to interrupt.
I suspect it might be generational, but menu driven controls are not as intuitive, and IMHO down right distracting. Without standardization, for those who use various different vehicles such as frequent travelers do with rental cars, menu only systems can be a frequently frustrating experience. I will grant that the potential customization of touch screens can be very appealing.

Last edited by WRX4US; 12-18-2023 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Update
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Old 12-18-2023, 01:29 PM   #273
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What about auto climate control. Do you change your home HVAC temps repeatedly? Why not choose the temp comfortable to you and leave it in auto. Won't have to do a thing then? IF you do, it would likely be a temp change and that IS a physical button you can push.
Never had a car that worked in auto mode the way I like a car's HVAC to work.

After a while, but not at startup, I will leave the temp in auto mode. I always adjust the vent distribution though. The most frustrating was my VW that would randomly turn the AC off when the heat was on, leaving me with fogged windows whenever it was cold and raining out. It's like the HVAC designers forgot that sometimes it rains when it's cold and merely heating the air doesn't drop the RH enough to limit condensation.
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Old 12-18-2023, 05:59 PM   #274
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I like the option of voice commands. But, I also like dedicated, illuminated, viewable and tactile hard buttons too. Sometimes, one has sleeping passengers, or is on an active phone call, or listening to something that one would prefer not to interrupt.
I suspect it might be generational, but menu driven controls are not as intuitive, and IMHO down right distracting. Without standardization, for those who use various different vehicles such as frequent travelers do with rental cars, menu only systems can be a frequently frustrating experience. I will grant that the potential customization of touch screens can be very appealing.
My only comment here is to agree/disagree on the same thing. Standardization would be interesting but we know that ain't happenin. The disagree is, even with physical buttons, it's not intuitive with each manufacturer. I rented an Elantra on my recent trip to Commiefornia. KNOWING i was going to be on those streets, I did my best to learn where those buttons where before moving. I was there a good 10 minutes before I felt like I was ready. My only complaints with that car was ingress/egress. Visibility wasn't the best(wasn't bad either) but it affected my backing since the backup camera working was a toss up. Drove nice though.

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Never had a car that worked in auto mode the way I like a car's HVAC to work.

After a while, but not at startup, I will leave the temp in auto mode. I always adjust the vent distribution though. The most frustrating was my VW that would randomly turn the AC off when the heat was on, leaving me with fogged windows whenever it was cold and raining out. It's like the HVAC designers forgot that sometimes it rains when it's cold and merely heating the air doesn't drop the RH enough to limit condensation.

How old a car was that one? Subaru's current system does have humidity sensors to help with that while in auto. And it does work quite well to work against fogging.

As for vent distribution, though....yeah, that is one that I get with customers a lot. Especially those with sensitive eyes. They don't like the air from the main vents much. I'll even change it to the main vents in the winter to help warm my hands; but, as soon as I'm comfortable, it's back to auto.



"Personal preference" is fine. I chalk that up to the same as looks and other things. But, "dangerous"? Nah. That's the individual.
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Old 12-19-2023, 01:19 PM   #275
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How old a car was that one? Subaru's current system does have humidity sensors to help with that while in auto. And it does work quite well to work against fogging.

As for vent distribution, though....yeah, that is one that I get with customers a lot. Especially those with sensitive eyes. They don't like the air from the main vents much. I'll even change it to the main vents in the winter to help warm my hands; but, as soon as I'm comfortable, it's back to auto.
It was my 2018 mk7.5 Golf R. It supposedly had a humidity sensor as well but I think that was the problem - it was constantly cycling the AC, rather than just leaving it on all the time. It was typically only an issue in stop and go traffic, so it could have been related to that. I think I recall reading that the car would disengage the AC compressor when the clutch was operated, so there's a chance it wasn't running much in stop and go traffic.

Yeah, I never use the main vents unless it's to heat my hands, or cool down the car quick. Typical default setting for me is windshield and feet. I use floor and main vents in my convertible when it's colder out to help keep me warm, but that's about it...
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