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Old 08-30-2013, 08:24 AM   #26
nmlittlebigman
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Since everything was good in your wot pull and your problem keeps showing up in cruise then I would suspect the front 02 sensor is failing. As soon as you get that wideband on there you can compare AFR's.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:59 AM   #27
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmlittlebigman View Post
Since everything was good in your wot pull and your problem keeps showing up in cruise then I would suspect the front 02 sensor is failing. As soon as you get that wideband on there you can compare AFR's.
Totally possible.

Lot's of progress made Joshua! If you fill up with Ethanol remember that it's not quite E85, rather E73 now. So tune your injector scale accordingly.

If your O2 sensor is failing then the knock may be legitimate due to poor/false corrections. Seems like you are really close in figuring out your issue! Keep up the good work.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgr73 View Post
Totally possible.

Lot's of progress made Joshua! If you fill up with Ethanol remember that it's not quite E85, rather E73 now. So tune your injector scale accordingly.

If your O2 sensor is failing then the knock may be legitimate due to poor/false corrections. Seems like you are really close in figuring out your issue! Keep up the good work.
Hmm, I guess I need an ethanol retune then. It was last tuned in 2009 for E85 and 21psi boost [due to a slipping clutch]. I don't tune, don't know where to start (other than many more hours of reading) so I will have to pay someone for that. The guy I bought my car from actually just found the tuning maps in a box. They are on a CD and he's sending them to me.

I found more paperwork on all the work done on my car though. My injectors are 812cc/min.

Joshua
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:16 AM   #29
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Gotcha. You should get the E85 retune later if you deem it necessary.

Right now what you can do (to get you running on ethanol) is pull the 91oct map off of your car with your tactrix, open the map in ECUFlash/RomRaider and find the injector scaler. It should be around 812cc (give or take). Multiply that injector scaler whatever the number is by .72 (which should make it now ~584cc). Make sure your scaler is now ~584cc in that box. Now save that map and name it something along the lines of E85_Troubleshooting_Map. When you fill up with E85 flash that and log the car. Those settings should get your fueling close.

I don't know how aggressive your old E85 map is, but I will bet it's more aggressive then your current 91oct map. So what your are doing by modifying your injector scaler on your 91oct map is keeping the 91oct map timing/boost/ect...and making it a really safe E85 map for troubleshooting.

Last edited by wgr73; 08-30-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:25 AM   #30
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Let me know if you need help.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:30 AM   #31
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That would be all fine Winfield if his 91 map was dialed in. Since his cat pretty much fell out of his downpipe is it possible that he needs to touch up his fueling on his 91 map first due to less restriction?
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:34 AM   #32
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Okay, I get it. I'm just making the ECU think the injectors are smaller so it will increase the pulse width to match the current fueling map. I will pull my map today and see what I can find. Thanks.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:36 AM   #33
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I still have an intact honeycomb in my cat. It looks like the front half came apart but the back half still exists. There is not a passage around the honeycomb structure at all.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:38 AM   #34
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I still have an intact honeycomb in my cat. It looks like the front half came apart but the back half still exists. There is not a passage around the honeycomb structure at all.
Edit I guess my question to winfield should be if maf needs rescaling? I think I would have completely gutted it anyways.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:54 AM   #35
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Edit I guess my question to winfield should be if maf needs rescaling? I think I would have completely gutted it anyways.

I agree, gutting it would've been a good idea since it's not needed and isn't going to help anything in that condition.

No his maf shouldn't need to be rescaled. As long as his intake is still the same and that scaling was correct.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:58 AM   #36
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I just thought of something. Joshua, do you still have your rear O2?
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:08 AM   #37
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Still have my rear O2. Cat is out of the car still so I can gut it. But if I move to a state where I have to pass emissions, won't that cause problems?
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:24 AM   #38
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Rear O2 effects fueling as well, so if your cat is junk/deleted then it may effect your fueling up to 7%(?). Disable your rear O2 (CEL) sensor in ECUFlash and unplug it.

If you move to a state where you have to pass emissions it may. If its only a sight inspection then you can probably pass. You're not thinking about leaving us are you?! :P
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:56 AM   #39
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Yeah, I really am thinking about leaving. Been planning on moving further west sine I moved here. Probably December/January.

I will leave my cat as is. I may try unplugging the rear O2. how do I disable the CEL for it?
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:42 PM   #40
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From what you describe Joshua, half your cat is gone anyways. Would it pass emissions in it's present state? Who knows, but whatever caused the front part to break up (high heat etc.) may have effected the rear to be brittle as well. I'd gut it and be done with it. Just keep the car registered down here at your sisters.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:30 PM   #41
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Unplugged and disabled the Rear O2 Low Input CEL. Still no dice. Lots of FLKC in the same place. Cat is still intact. Still waiting on the wideband to show up. It may be at the post office now actually.

I'm pretty sure my cat came apart due to a rock. I tend to find lots of rocks with the underside of my car :/

Joshua

Last edited by joshuajayg; 08-30-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:03 PM   #42
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Hey Joshua, sorry I was away from my computer. Darn, sucks that didn't work. :-/ Wideband comparison should be next.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:32 PM   #43
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I got it in the mail but won't be able to weld in the bung until Sunday probably. I'm headed to Roswell tomorrow afternoon and don't have a welder here. Would forcing open loop do me any good? I'm excited I can finally take a look at my map.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:25 PM   #44
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Meh

Last edited by joshuajayg; 08-30-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:13 PM   #45
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Ran E85 today. Still the occasional FLKC or FBKC but it the FLKC clears itself very quickly. I also had 4 gallons of 91oct in the take so if the E85 was 73% ethanol, that leaves me at 53% ethanol content. I changed my injector flow scaling from 824.08 to 595.88. The A/F learning was a lot happier with max learning usually +8% max.

Installing my AEM UEGO in a couple days, checking the plugs at that time as well.
Joshua
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuajayg View Post
Ran E85 today. Still the occasional FLKC or FBKC but it the FLKC clears itself very quickly. I also had 4 gallons of 91oct in the take so if the E85 was 73% ethanol, that leaves me at 53% ethanol content. I changed my injector flow scaling from 824.08 to 595.88. The A/F learning was a lot happier with max learning usually +8% max.

Installing my AEM UEGO in a couple days, checking the plugs at that time as well.
Joshua
Occasional fbkc/flkc at cruise isn't anything to be concerned with unless it's gross correction and doesn't clear up.

Seems like you got your scaling pretty ball park. So my guess is something is rattling to cause the knock. Even E53-ish shouldn't knock at low loads (probably not even under high load).

Good work, keep us updated!
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #47
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Alright, time for an update.

My plugs looked kind of like they were soaked in salt water. They had a layer of brown, gritty stuff on them. The plugs I removed were NGK PFR6G. I replaced them with NGK BKR7EIX. Gapped .029 in. out of the box.

Dynamic compression test indicated: 120 - 130 - 130 - 135.

I installed my AEM UEGO today about 18 inches behind my turbo. I have a few logs I will post up.

I'm still getting knock and eventually my IAM dropped. Graphing A/F Sensor #1 against the AEM in RR shows very similar indications between the sensors with a very slight lag in the AEM due to its distance from the first sensor.

I finally got a hold of my tuned E85 map. We will see how that goes once I get a bit of E85.

Here are the logs:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...s%20WB%201.xls
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...s%20WB%202.xls

Joshua
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:43 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuajayg View Post
A

Dynamic compression test indicated: 120 - 130 - 130 - 135.
Going by the +/-10% rule of thumb (variance between highest and lowest cylinder). Cylinder #1 may have a cracked/broken ringland. Can you do a leak down test?
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:32 PM   #49
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I can't do a leak down test, I don't have the equipment. I'm not sold on the cracked ringland. I am not a big fan of the dynamic compression tests due to their inconsistencies. The gauge I used is marked in intervals of 5psi. I rounded to the nearest five. And, if I turned the engine over four revs instead of three that will change the reading. Basically, 12.5% difference doesn't tell me anything other than I don't have an obvious big issue with a cylinder.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:55 PM   #50
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^^^ it also depends on hot or cold engine. I said "may". Right now I am just trying to figure out what is triggering your knock sensor.
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