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Old 03-03-2021, 04:22 PM   #301
Diz
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Bummer we have to wait until the second half (end?) of the year for these. I've been shopping CPO C43 AMG and CLA45 AMGs, but I'm going to hold off until I can drive a new Golf R. Sigh...I suck at waiting.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:44 PM   #302
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I imagine the Golf R is going to be in really high demand and dealers will be marking them up...I hope not though

Last edited by murrdogg24; 03-04-2021 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:07 PM   #303
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Definitely underrated HP, interested to see dyno and stg 1/2. I miss mine...
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:25 AM   #304
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Is the R coming before the new GTI? I see the press release for the US R but havenít seen one for the GTI.

I think the Sport diff (and fully defeatable stability) makes the R worth the premium over the GTI now though. As a daily driver itíd be tough to beat.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:25 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by legacy_etu View Post
Looks like a good performance value. Wish VW would add a bit of styling to this though. They're bland....to say the least. Didn't VW dealers add ADM's to the R models in the recent past?

Here is was pretty much MSRP. Before I bought my RS I tried to buy a white 6MT Mk7 CPO and my local dealer wouldn't budge a red cent on a CPO. They treated it the same as a new one. From reading Vortex at the time, only a few dealers in the USDM were discounted it at all and it wasn't much. And that was year 2 or 3. You should never buy any of these cars the first year if you expect any kind of a deal. Have to let the new-new and "FIRST!" crowd go first to the stealers with money falling out of their pockets. There is always a bs crowd willing to pay extra to be the first clown at the hood up meets.



I prefer the subdued styling. Makes it a sleeper. Even the Mk7 I have to double/triple take to see if it's a R. Especially if the owner swapped wheels. I like that aspect. Nobody pays it any attention. I'll take that all day over festery spoilers and widebody kits that do zero for performance and just attract attention. I'm digging this new R since they fixed the drivetrain. The motor is solid and I won't mind upgrading the clutch to make much more power. The motor can handle it. They fixed the brakes and the numb steering as well.



It's Subaru's move now. If this rumored hatch collaboration between Toyo and Subaru is on the table it could force their hand to offer a 5 door again. The RS changed the game now everyone is copying the rear wheel drive biased mode. The weak point in the RS was the engine. The R has no such weakness so this is a much improved RS. I sure wish this R would get Toyo to reconsider bringing the GR4 here. The Yaris is winning all the comparos overseas. Toyo botched an opportunity to change their brand here. This f'in R just made my list with one car to wait on to make my decision. For all of VAG's/VW's bs, they do listen to their customers and buyers. They literally listened to all the feedback and made the changes people asked for on this car. That's more than I can say for Subaru.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:55 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
To be honest I would rather have the cloth seats in the Car Wow review than leather. The leather in my MK7 was pretty average and IMO cloth keeps me more firmly seated.
I can't speak for the MK8, but the cloth interior in my MK7 GTI is pretty nice and high quality. Living in AZ, the prospect of dark colored leather doesn't excite me much. I wish they sold a stripper version of the R for ~$36kish.
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:01 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I prefer the subdued styling. Makes it a sleeper.
Same, sleepers/normal looking cars are preferred by me too (just in a bright "look at me" color).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I'm digging this new R since they fixed the drivetrain.
Car and Driver: "The new Golf R's all-wheel drive system is more sophisticated than before thanks to a new torque-vectoring rear differential. This enables a Drift mode function that changes the system's torque distribution and also partially deactivates the stability control for some tail-sliding action."

I wonder how "partially" it is, by that I mean, will it let you loop it if you push too hard or will the VSC kick in and save you? I prefer no intervention/fully disabled, I don't want the car trying to save me when I turn nannies off and push too hard, in my experience that can be more dangerous/less predictable.

Maybe I'll be test driving a 6mt Golf R in a couple-few years; now if only it were a wagon....
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:08 PM   #308
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...now if only it were a wagon....
Indeed


Sadly, not for us.
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:12 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Same, sleepers/normal looking cars are preferred by me too (just in a bright "look at me" color).



Car and Driver: "The new Golf R's all-wheel drive system is more sophisticated than before thanks to a new torque-vectoring rear differential. This enables a Drift mode function that changes the system's torque distribution and also partially deactivates the stability control for some tail-sliding action."

I wonder how "partially" it is, by that I mean, will it let you loop it if you push too hard or will the VSC kick in and save you? I prefer no intervention/fully disabled, I don't want the car trying to save me when I turn nannies off and push too hard, in my experience that can be more dangerous/less predictable.

Maybe I'll be test driving a 6mt Golf R in a couple-few years; now if only it were a wagon....
In the MK7.5, you could fully disable VSC. MK7, you needed to change some things within VAGCOM to make that happen (easy with OBD2 plug-in). I'm going to guess that it'll be similar, but everything is so software driven on these things, it's hard to know until OBDeleven or VCDS gets their hand on the new code and maps it.
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:51 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
In the MK7.5, you could fully disable VSC. MK7, you needed to change some things within VAGCOM to make that happen (easy with OBD2 plug-in). I'm going to guess that it'll be similar, but everything is so software driven on these things, it's hard to know until OBDeleven or VCDS gets their hand on the new code and maps it.
Yup, there's a "full off" mode; however, I haven't tried to Scandinavian flick the car to confirm
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:41 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Yup, there's a "full off" mode; however, I haven't tried to Scandinavian flick the car to confirm
I was playing in the snow a few years ago in my R and put the VCDS in "sport", which gives like 5 seconds of VCDS off then kicks in a bit... drifting a corner, it kicked back in and I nearly nailed a guard rail. Thankfully I got it into full VCDS off mode and back on the throttle before it became a disaster.
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Old 03-04-2021, 05:08 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
I was playing in the snow a few years ago in my R and put the VCDS in "sport", which gives like 5 seconds of VCDS off then kicks in a bit... drifting a corner, it kicked back in and I nearly nailed a guard rail. Thankfully I got it into full VCDS off mode and back on the throttle before it became a disaster.
I drove the R for 15 mins with ESC in Sport on my go-to backroad to get a feel for it but I was taking it easy and it's been bone dry down here for the past 3 weeks or so.
I'll be heading to some track day soon; we'll see how it goes with ESC completely off.
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Old 03-04-2021, 05:38 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I drove the R for 15 mins with ESC in Sport on my go-to backroad to get a feel for it but I was taking it easy and it's been bone dry down here for the past 3 weeks or so.
I'll be heading to some track day soon; we'll see how it goes with ESC completely off.
much more predictable. It was hard to distinguish the overall performance from my '09 wrx to my '18 R on the snow with esc off when hooning around. Given that I was spinning all wheels and sideways, I assume the haldex was giving me 50/50 torque transfer.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:31 PM   #314
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Help me out bc I canít find good info or videos or diagrams online. Iíve been looking lol.

How is the front differential driven? I donít see a second driveshaft coming off the rear Haldex unit (which determines f/r bias).
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:54 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Help me out bc I canít find good info or videos or diagrams online. Iíve been looking lol.

How is the front differential driven? I donít see a second driveshaft coming off the rear Haldex unit (which determines f/r bias).
https://www.awdwiki.com/en/haldex/

The front axles/differential is connected to the PTU mounted on the transmission. There's no second drive shaft. Power is sent to the front axles and rear driveshaft through the PTU and the clutches in the haldex unit determines how much of the torque is sent to the rear axle.

Unless something changed, there's no center diff with a set bias. Essentially it could be front wheel drive until all the clutches are actuated to send power to the rear axle. The driveshaft always spins even if there's no power to the rear axle (clutches not actuated).

https://images.app.goo.gl/jKUzk9hqscYi27HU7

Last edited by subyski; 03-04-2021 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:12 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
https://www.awdwiki.com/en/haldex/

The front axles/differential is connected to the transmission/PTU. There's no second drive shaft. Power is sent to the front axles and rear driveshaft through the PTU at the transmission and the clutches in the haldex unit determines how much of the torque is sent to the rear axle.

Unless something changed, there's no center diff with a set bias. Essentially it could be front wheel drive until all the clutches are actuated to send power to the rear axle. The driveshaft always spins even if there's no power to the rear axle (clutches not actuated).

https://images.app.goo.gl/jKUzk9hqscYi27HU7
Thank you. Itís the PTU that I was missing.

The reviews have been really good so far. Wish it came in red.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:45 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Here is was pretty much MSRP. Before I bought my RS I tried to buy a white 6MT Mk7 CPO and my local dealer wouldn't budge a red cent on a CPO. They treated it the same as a new one. From reading Vortex at the time, only a few dealers in the USDM were discounted it at all and it wasn't much. And that was year 2 or 3. You should never buy any of these cars the first year if you expect any kind of a deal. Have to let the new-new and "FIRST!" crowd go first to the stealers with money falling out of their pockets. There is always a bs crowd willing to pay extra to be the first clown at the hood up meets.



I prefer the subdued styling. Makes it a sleeper. Even the Mk7 I have to double/triple take to see if it's a R. Especially if the owner swapped wheels. I like that aspect. Nobody pays it any attention. I'll take that all day over festery spoilers and widebody kits that do zero for performance and just attract attention. I'm digging this new R since they fixed the drivetrain. The motor is solid and I won't mind upgrading the clutch to make much more power. The motor can handle it. They fixed the brakes and the numb steering as well.



It's Subaru's move now. If this rumored hatch collaboration between Toyo and Subaru is on the table it could force their hand to offer a 5 door again. The RS changed the game now everyone is copying the rear wheel drive biased mode. The weak point in the RS was the engine. The R has no such weakness so this is a much improved RS. I sure wish this R would get Toyo to reconsider bringing the GR4 here. The Yaris is winning all the comparos overseas. Toyo botched an opportunity to change their brand here. This f'in R just made my list with one car to wait on to make my decision. For all of VAG's/VW's bs, they do listen to their customers and buyers. They literally listened to all the feedback and made the changes people asked for on this car. That's more than I can say for Subaru.
Yeah, I get it, I like a sleeper too but this is really plain. I mean even a tweak the the rear roof spoiler to add a little something to hint at the performance would be nice. I mean it doesn't need to look like a Type R.

I still think you should just get the M2 and be done with it.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:26 AM   #318
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MK7 R too sleepy. The GTI shouldn't be more edgy than the R IMO. MK4 5 and 6 R all had tasteful but noticeably more aggressive styling differences. 7 R looks like a Golf with quad pipes. Not enough. I don't think they did enough with the 8 either to be honest. Looks like the GTI. Both look like piss.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:50 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post

I wonder how "partially" it is, by that I mean, will it let you loop it if you push too hard or will the VSC kick in and save you? I prefer no intervention/fully disabled, I don't want the car trying to save me when I turn nannies off and push too hard, in my experience that can be more dangerous/less predictable.
The AWD system in this sounds just like the Twinster in my RS or the version in my truck. 30% is still going to the front wheels. Drift in the RS turned off all the nannies. You setup for the corner, brake, into the turn, apply throttle then WFO on corner exit and the back end steps out on you, keep the pedal mashed and the drivetrain straightens the car out and pulls you forward.

I was all scared of it in the RS because the journalists were all ďtrack onlyĒ, ďdangerousĒ, parking lot only, etc, etc. BS! Just imagine an AWD car with a rear biased mode. Thatís all it is. Gives you some of that playful rear end a la RWD type ish. I learned by going slow at first, then slowly wicking it up until the point, on the track I had the damn thing completely sideways. Itís totally controllable in a way that a RWD canít. Itís predictable, and itís not going to go into snap oversteer like my AP2 and spin your @$$. Youíll be fine.

The car wow reviewer said front diff and Iím like wtf, do we got a Twinster type setup on both axles? I think he was mistaken and itís just like my Ridgeline or RS systems with a PTU/RDU setup. That means the rear half shafts will torque vector but the front will toque vector brake based with the calipers. Thatís unfortunate if true, but I had zero complaints in the RS and this has a much better engine and is much more refined. Iím cautiously optimistic on this car. And it may force Subaru/Toyotaís hand to fíin ante up!
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:56 AM   #320
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Yeah, I get it, I like a sleeper too but this is really plain. I mean even a tweak the the rear roof spoiler to add a little something to hint at the performance would be nice. I mean it doesn't need to look like a Type R.

I still think you should just get the M2 and be done with it.
That will be available in the aftermarket. I love that it looks mundane because I donít give a flying F about ďwide bodyĒ, and ďaggressiveĒ and all that other bs. Makes it easier to mob and run incognito. Wolf in sheepís clothing.

If the M2C was AWD forget about it. But itís not and Iíd rather have AWD any day. M2C also needs the aftermarket crank hub mod done and thatís a few grand right there alone in labor and parts. Itís invasive, a major PITA, and the car is still going for 50k+ used. I danced with the regular M2 last September. 2017 OG, with 13k miles for 43k and walked. I made the mistake of driving the M2C a month later and no longer cared about the OG. Iím gonna sit back and wait for Booby to counter punch, see if Toyo gets in the mix with them, see the new CTR, then Iíll be signing a fat check and signing the dotted line with my credit union. Itís early days. WRX, STi, rumored hatch from Booby/Toyo, CTR, a number of new cars in the class coming. Itís early days. R is at the top of list now though. Hope they donít jack the price up a bunch.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:56 AM   #321
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That will be available in the aftermarket. I love that it looks mundane because I donít give a flying F about ďwide bodyĒ, and ďaggressiveĒ and all that other bs. Makes it easier to mob and run incognito. Wolf in sheepís clothing.

If the M2C was AWD forget about it. But itís not and Iíd rather have AWD any day. M2C also needs the aftermarket crank hub mod done and thatís a few grand right there alone in labor and parts. Itís invasive, a major PITA, and the car is still going for 50k+ used. I danced with the regular M2 last September. 2017 OG, with 13k miles for 43k and walked. I made the mistake of driving the M2C a month later and no longer cared about the OG. Iím gonna sit back and wait for Booby to counter punch, see if Toyo gets in the mix with them, see the new CTR, then Iíll be signing a fat check and signing the dotted line with my credit union. Itís early days. WRX, STi, rumored hatch from Booby/Toyo, CTR, a number of new cars in the class coming. Itís early days. R is at the top of list now though. Hope they donít jack the price up a bunch.
Man, I thought I had tough requirements for a car. You want a unicorn. An awd, over 400 hp, manual, hot hatch, for between 40-45k. Dang son.......
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:28 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
The AWD system in this sounds just like the Twinster in my RS or the version in my truck. 30% is still going to the front wheels. Drift in the RS turned off all the nannies. You setup for the corner, brake, into the turn, apply throttle then WFO on corner exit and the back end steps out on you, keep the pedal mashed and the drivetrain straightens the car out and pulls you forward.

I was all scared of it in the RS because the journalists were all ďtrack onlyĒ, ďdangerousĒ, parking lot only, etc, etc. BS! Just imagine an AWD car with a rear biased mode. Thatís all it is. Gives you some of that playful rear end a la RWD type ish. I learned by going slow at first, then slowly wicking it up until the point, on the track I had the damn thing completely sideways. Itís totally controllable in a way that a RWD canít. Itís predictable, and itís not going to go into snap oversteer like my AP2 and spin your @$$. Youíll be fine.

The car wow reviewer said front diff and Iím like wtf, do we got a Twinster type setup on both axles? I think he was mistaken and itís just like my Ridgeline or RS systems with a PTU/RDU setup. That means the rear half shafts will torque vector but the front will toque vector brake based with the calipers. Thatís unfortunate if true, but I had zero complaints in the RS and this has a much better engine and is much more refined. Iím cautiously optimistic on this car. And it may force Subaru/Toyotaís hand to fíin ante up!
If the R can survive in rear-biased mode all the time (I mean except maybe when my wife is behind the wheel), and the nannies can be defeated it will be worth a look. If it can't survive in rear biased mode all the time, or the nannies can't be defeated, I'll have to continue looking elsewhere to get my kicks.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:55 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
The car wow reviewer said front diff and I'm like wtf, do we got a Twinster type setup on both axles? I think he was mistaken and it's just like my Ridgeline or RS systems with a PTU/RDU setup. That means the rear half shafts will torque vector but the front will toque vector brake based with the calipers. That's unfortunate if true, but I had zero complaints in the RS and this has a much better engine and is much more refined. I'm cautiously optimistic on this car. And it may force Subaru/Toyota's hand to f'in ante up!
It sounds like the XDS on the front is just Torque Vectoring via braking, not an LSD. Sounds just like a WRX. However, it can also do it on the rear wheels (XDS+), which the WRX cannot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
If the R can survive in rear-biased mode all the time (I mean except maybe when my wife is behind the wheel), and the nannies can be defeated it will be worth a look. If it can't survive in rear biased mode all the time, or the nannies can't be defeated, I'll have to continue looking elsewhere to get my kicks.
What Rear Bias mode?

"Traction is improved by increased locking in the selective wheel torque control, and vehicle handling is slightly more biased towards the rear." https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1419

That could mean 80:20 (90:10 being normal).

I believe the max is 50:50 f/r, which is probably a rare occurrence.

Then when some power goes to the rear it can split whatever that amount is L/R 50:50 or 100:0/0:100.

******


This might be the best review we will ever see. In snow, all modes. They have VW race car driver in Austria showing off the R and going over every little detail.


Last edited by Snow Drift; 03-05-2021 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:56 PM   #324
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Man, I thought I had tough requirements for a car. You want a unicorn. An awd, over 400 hp, manual, hot hatch, for between 40-45k. Dang son.......

Nah. The 400HP is on me to get done in the aftermarket "son". What I want is a production WRC homologation car, and Toyota made it, and F'd us on it. Meanwhile everyone else gets it. I mean the GR4 with a 4 banger and 350 HP stock is what I want, a 3 door hatch with some ground clearance. In 30 years of my automobile life, the GR4 is the closest vehicle to ever come out to what I really want in a performance car. This R or a new competitor will have to do.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:01 PM   #325
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This might be the best review we will ever see.
Ok forget the front and the lack of interesting colors and the haptic controls.
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