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Old 02-12-2021, 11:46 AM   #1
3-MPG
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Default Another, Rough Idle/Misfire/Stall/Cyl Roughness

Ok so bottom line up front. Been a longtime member here, and I wouldnt post a problem on this forum unless I did all the research first because I know the deal. I was almost complete E-tuning after a full build, and I noticed that after I would perform WOT runs, the engines idle was fairly rough, and the car sounded like I had unequal length headers when I drove. Eventually the engine would clear out and sound smooth again, until I performed another WOT. One weekend, I took the car for a 1-2hr drive and when I was almost home, the car's motor started running rough again, and remained. Now the car idles rough, all 4 Cylinder misfires count, RPMs fluctuate, car stalls at a stop, I get Feedback Knock anywhere from -4 to -11 on a normal drive. Motor sounds horrible like its not firing all cylinders or that its an unequal length-type sound; when I test drive.
I thought maybe I took on bad gas? I have no idea how I would know if I had bad gas. I'm freakin lost, frustrated, and I've been at it for months. What am I missing, there are no codes. Sometimes I get the PFFF misfire code, well no Sh_t I'm misfiring.. During the process I would have a P2092, P2093 but I found out that it was the pins in the ECU/Engine harness that had bad connectivity. I fixed those thanks to iWire.com. I'm on the verge of re-checking the timing but I don't know what else to do.


Re-timed belt
OCV sensors replaced
Spark Plugs replaced (gapped at .23)
Coil packs replaced
Leakdown Test (0%)
Compression test (120psi all 4)
Knock sensor replaced
Boost leak test (good)
Throttle Body is clean
The car is speed density tuned, so no MAF req'd



ENGINE MODIFICATION

* ETS EL Headers
* ETS Rotated kit
* Tial 44 mm EWG
* Tomei Catback
* ETS CAI
* Grimmspeed 3 port EBCS
* Garrett GTX II 3582R
* Grimmspeed Intake Manifold Porting
* ETS FMIC
* Grimmspeed Throttle Body Porting
* Grimmspeed TGV deletes
* Grimmspeed 8mm Phenolic spacers
* I.D. 2000 Fuel inj
* Aeromotive fuel rails
* Aeromotive fuel lines (6AN/8AN)
* Aeromotive FPR
* Visconti Basket containing Walbro 485 pump w/ Hardwire kit
* NGK Iridium Spark Plugs
* Tial Q BOV
* IAG Stage 3 Short Block (700 bhp capable)
* IAG Stage 3 Heads +1mm Valves
* GSC 2 Camshaft
* Torque Solutions Air Pump Delete
* ACT 6 Puck Clutch
* Killer-B oil pick up
* ACT Street Lite Flywheel
* IAG Competition AOS
* Speed Density GM IAT sensor in Down pipe
* OMNI 4 BAR MAP Sensor
* COBB Fuel Sensor
* IAG Competition AOS
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Last edited by 3-MPG; 02-12-2021 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:01 PM   #2
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So I looked over AF Learning values and my AF Learning 1B was -15 which may indicate an intake leak. Conducted another Boost leak with higher pressure (15-20 psi) and I found a boost leak on the intake manifold/TGV gasket. Go figure, I find this after I post on the forum. I'll replace the gasket and follow up. Thanks for the IM replies
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:01 PM   #3
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Weird I am having the same issue. But its only at around 2500rpm. Af correction swings from -25 to
+25

Idle is fine and at 4k rpm is fine. Or if I lug the engine.

We have pretty much same mods.

I also had pin connection issues that I fixed using iwire plugs... Ha go figure. But I also,repaired many pins myself.

Did you find the issue?

I'm gonna pulling my copper plugs and put new ones in. I also have the rubber lgt tv gaskets. So I dont think that the issue. I did fix boost leaks also helped but didnt solve issue 100%

Issue isnt there when I reset ecu. Once ecu learns seems to be when I see the issue.

If I unplug o2 sensor its fine also. So I was thinking maybe o2 sensor issue?

Maybe fuel delivery issue when hot? I checked my fuel line clamps. All seem well.

I didnt do,leakdown or,compression test because engine sounds very healthy. Starts right up within 2 seconds every time.

I keep thinking its some kind electromagnetic interference.

Or the omni map sensor is causing issues. My Watergate boost is 20psi but I noticed my absolute pressure under full boost reads 32psi. Other then that the rest of my logs look normal.

Another member was having same issue was his engine harness. His injector plugs. I put new ones in. And I also repaired ground wires on harness. I don't have 300 to spend on new harness.

With the issues being only present post edu learn values I'm really thinking it's an o2 sensor issue.

It even does it on cold starts it will effect idle until it's warmed up. It helps if I sit in car and rev engine up and down. Slightly. Part of me is thinking it could be a tps issue.

Or again some type of interference. With tps and or o2 sensor.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 02-13-2021 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 02-13-2021, 01:38 PM   #4
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Still trying to find it. I had a minor boost leak between TGV and Mani. Luckily I had gaskets sitting around. But that didn't change it. I'm still looking. I might have another minor leak around the TGV gaskets. I've been at this thing for a minute now. I'll keep tinkering around this week, but I'm probably going to take another look at timing if I can't figure it out. My idle sounds horrible and rough because of misfiring.
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Old 02-13-2021, 02:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-MPG View Post
Still trying to find it. I had a minor boost leak between TGV and Mani. Luckily I had gaskets sitting around. But that didn't change it. I'm still looking. I might have another minor leak around the TGV gaskets. I've been at this thing for a minute now. I'll keep tinkering around this week, but I'm probably going to take another look at timing if I can't figure it out. My idle sounds horrible and rough because of misfiring.
What fuel are you using? I have my plugs gapped down to .2 for e85.

I was battling a similar issue with my ID2000s. Ended up eventually selling mine and got FiC2150s, and they actually idle a lot better. I also replaced my engine wiring harness, which also appeared to help. It's reasonably cheap, and the old one was actually fairly beat up!

Another thing that comes to mind is exhaust leaks. If you're rip-roaring around, and then you start having issues, it's possible that a leak opened up once everything was hot.

The v-bands are really tricky to get 100% sealed. I wasn't able to get my ETS kit to seal without gaskets. My old man and I made a gasket out of some felpro material and put it between the v-band headers -> up pipe. That solved most of my problems.

Could also be worth removing the blow off valve, cleaning it, and lubricating the BOV piston. They can get stuck open ever so slightly after boosting, if there's FM in the assembly (or inadequate lubrication).
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Old 02-13-2021, 02:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
Weird I am having the same issue. But its only at around 2500rpm. Af correction swings from -25 to
+25
I was battling a similar issue with my car. My tuner said he's seen it a TON of times, and 9/10 it was due to the fuel system. Removing the fuel dampers actually improved the situation, since the Aeromotive FPR already implements some dampening functionality.

I also made some modifications to my return lines to make them more equidistant and ran AN lines from the tank all the way to the front. That part might not be necessary for some, but I wanted to eliminate the stock 5/16" lines for better performance. Fuel system vibrations pass through metal lines a lot easier than PTFE lines, which according to my tuner is part of the problem w/ the 2500 RPM stumble.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
I was battling a similar issue with my car. My tuner said he's seen it a TON of times, and 9/10 it was due to the fuel system. Removing the fuel dampers actually improved the situation, since the Aeromotive FPR already implements some dampening functionality.

I also made some modifications to my return lines to make them more equidistant and ran AN lines from the tank all the way to the front. That part might not be necessary for some, but I wanted to eliminate the stock 5/16" lines for better performance. Fuel system vibrations pass through metal lines a lot easier than PTFE lines, which according to my tuner is part of the problem w/ the 2500 RPM stumble.
I also removed the fuel line dampeners. So I know that's not issue.

When I unplug the green plug from alterbator issue goes away. Ac ripple test came back good. Battery is good.

I think it might be something with ecu. When I refresh the ecu with my 93 map it runs great until edu learns values. I'm also thinking could be issue with map sensor.

I also have a small boost leak on my tial 50mm its the set screws that hold the diphram to the piston. I need to add a sealer to them. Other then that boost still holds a solid 20psi on my pump gas map.

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Old 02-13-2021, 07:55 PM   #8
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Still trying to find it. I had a minor boost leak between TGV and Mani. Luckily I had gaskets sitting around. But that didn't change it. I'm still looking. I might have another minor leak around the TGV gaskets. I've been at this thing for a minute now. I'll keep tinkering around this week, but I'm probably going to take another look at timing if I can't figure it out. My idle sounds horrible and rough because of misfiring.
Same here dude idle and sometimes cruising I get a sputter sometimes its perfectly smooth. In boost it always smooth.

My timing tends to jump around not nearly as smooth as it once was when I got the car tuned.

Totally seems like some kinda magnetic interference for sure. Probably effecting the cam and crank sensors. I was gonna shave down some good old sensors I have laying around to tighten up the air gaps and see if that helps any. Couldnt hurt that for sure. I was even thinking of adding a ground wire to earth like buses have. Just a open ground strap from chassis to the ground. Today I changed the oil and added a ground wire to my exhaust system. Figured why not.

I might order some new screens for the too hats of my id2000 I had removed those recently also. I removed them thinking they had been the issue. It did seem to run a little better but didnt solve the issue. Ive been battling thisbissue for a long time now also.

It all started with connection issues at the edu harness when jr swapped a 04 Sti ecu in to get my car on road when the 05 Sri ecu was bricked.

Those pins got damaged and I recently repaired them. I wonder if someting got shorted in the edu itself from poor connection with the terminals. I am having another weird issue now where I have to slam my recirculation button on hvac unit. Idk what thats all about.

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Old 02-13-2021, 08:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
I also removed the fuel line dampeners. So I know that's not issue.

When I unplug the green plug from alterbator issue goes away. Ac ripple test came back good. Battery is good.

I think it might be something with ecu. When I refresh the ecu with my 93 map it runs great until edu learns values. I'm also thinking could be issue with map sensor.

I also have a small boost leak on my tial 50mm its the set screws that hold the diphram to the piston. I need to add a sealer to them. Other then that boost still holds a solid 20psi on my pump gas map.
Have you tried swapping alternators? There could be a fault in the alternator that wasn't picked up by the test.
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Old 02-13-2021, 08:55 PM   #10
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Have you tried swapping alternators? There could be a fault in the alternator that wasn't picked up by the test.
Yea I had one from an lgt engine I bought but not sure it's good it is charging but has same issue. I don't have 300 to spend on a me altrrnator. Being that the issue goes away when I unplug the wire I'm thinking it's in the ecu or harness going to alternator to ecu. But If I the values that should be at those two wires. And my luck everything will be good when I check it but then will act up when I go back on the road.

I have learned some ways around it however still want to understand what's causing the issue.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:21 AM   #11
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Hooked up my second fuel pump seemed to help a little. But honestly I noticed it helps a lot more if I dont let the car idle at all. If I left foot brake like I'm on the track and constantly blip the throttle everything is much easier. And seems much smoother.

OP you figure it out yet? I dont wanna dump money i really dont have into the car.
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:12 PM   #12
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Hooked up my second fuel pump seemed to help a little. But honestly I noticed it helps a lot more if I dont let the car idle at all. If I left foot brake like I'm on the track and constantly blip the throttle everything is much easier. And seems much smoother.

OP you figure it out yet? I dont wanna dump money i really dont have into the car.
No not yet. Yesterday I repaired my engine harness plug which helped me from misdiagnosing the real issue.
So,
Right now I still have a somewhat rough idle. The AP shows that cylinder 1 is significantly higher in roughness. My AF Learning 1b is in the high negatives. When I hit the gas thereís a delayed response.
Iím going to pop off the coil pack and check the connector and coil pack with a multimeter.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:46 PM   #13
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Lmk what you find and what the values are. I tried swapping coils on mine didnt work. I also depinned connector and bent tension for pins to bite the terminals better. Helped some. I'm only seeing like 1-5 roughness on cyl 1-2 and bits very on off sometimes 0.

I even stretched the springs in the boots put to get better contact to the spark plugs. I honestly dont like that designit seems it would arc a lot.

I think my next move is going to be tieing all my ground wires to one point vs the multiple areas I'm using for ground locations.

I did notice my sheilded ground wires seem to be reading slight voltage when I cut the wires and turned on the key. So I was trying to think how they could be seeing voltage possibly a leak in the wire shield somewhere leaking to ground wire.

I should honestly just a buy a new harness. Im sure i can repair it. But idk if I really want to spend the time pulling it all apart and then taping it all back up again. Plus Idk where I can get the exposed ground wire from to run over the other wires for sheilded ground.

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Old 02-16-2021, 12:18 PM   #14
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Today I unplugged green plug on alternator and went for a ride to the store and car ran effin mint.

But when I got there I lost voltage to 8v. And had to ask a few guys to pop start it.
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Old 02-16-2021, 12:41 PM   #15
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Today I unplugged green plug on alternator and went for a ride to the store and car ran effin mint.

But when I got there I lost voltage to 8v. And had to ask a few guys to pop start it.
I wonder if it's the mechanism in the ECU that tells the alternator when to charge the battery. Was looking for the schematics the other day but couldn't find it lol.

Might be worth doing some dynamic load tests on those wires from the alternator plug -> the ECU (backprobing)
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:25 PM   #16
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I wonder if it's the mechanism in the ECU that tells the alternator when to charge the battery. Was looking for the schematics the other day but couldn't find it lol.

Might be worth doing some dynamic load tests on those wires from the alternator plug -> the ECU (backprobing)

I was thinking the same exact thing. However I cant find any into on the values those wires shpuld be seeing ive scrolled a good amount through the fsm to no avail.

I cant imagine it being a wiring issue I have gone through most of that and everything seems to be up to par there. Ive fixed some corroded sensors that ive found along with corroded grounds.

Noticed some corrosion on the edu pins going into,the motherboard but seems to be just on the surface. Ive also cleaned that off at least what I could reach without de soldering the connector from the board. The ecu is not the original for the car. Its one jr supplied for me. Meh, debating on replacing it with a good used one.
I believe it is the s9 unit wondering if my ecu was better. And if so what the code was on the original ecu.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:33 PM   #17
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Wow wonder if your ECU is taking a dump
Still no change, I even re-timed the engine yesterday morning. Afterward, the tank was near empty so I drove to the nearest Shell gas station and filled up, hoping that I had bad gas. Same noise. Drives with a rough sputtering noise. Knock Sum in cylinder 1 & 4 can go anywhere from 20-50 on a 20 min drive. On the way back, I had codes for misfire in all 4 cylinders. And strangely enough I had a P0021 code but according to the TM, my Intake and Exhaust AVCS appear to be doing what they should be doing when driving.
Next step would be to drain and flush the engine.
If that doesnít solve it, I suppose my next step would be to send the injectors in for cleaning.
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Old 02-18-2021, 10:20 AM   #18
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I was thinking the same exact thing. However I cant find any into on the values those wires shpuld be seeing ive scrolled a good amount through the fsm to no avail.

I cant imagine it being a wiring issue I have gone through most of that and everything seems to be up to par there. Ive fixed some corroded sensors that ive found along with corroded grounds.

Noticed some corrosion on the edu pins going into,the motherboard but seems to be just on the surface. Ive also cleaned that off at least what I could reach without de soldering the connector from the board. The ecu is not the original for the car. Its one jr supplied for me. Meh, debating on replacing it with a good used one.
I believe it is the s9 unit wondering if my ecu was better. And if so what the code was on the original ecu.
I was recently taking a look at my ECU, so I can give some info there if it helps... 05 STi

Quote:
B 9
22611AJ931
112200-8792
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:47 PM   #19
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I was recently taking a look at my ECU, so I can give some info there if it helps... 05 STi
Any chance you can text or email me a picture of your pin connectors on plug d and plug b? I'm wondering if my pins are in the wrong locations on the harness.

Either way I have a dash harness I'm looking to purchase from a guy. Looks to,be in great shape figured id grab it he only wants 160 bucks for it. Sure its worth it.

I charged up my battery other day for back of it. Oddly I'm still getting issue where its not shuting charger down to finish charge.

Then when I test battery using snap on tester its saying battery is bad. But when I take it to autozone or advance there tester is saying its a good battery? My tester shows battery impediance and whatnot. So I kinda trust it more then the one at parts store.

Also checked the two wires on my alternator and theyre reading battery voltage same reading on each wire. Not sure if thats normal or what?

The other day I unplugged the green plug and wanted to see how it ran and oddly it didnt change this time. Ran the same. I then tried to,unplug my o2 sensor and usually that would also make it run better. But no change again.
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:58 PM   #20
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Another member had same issue and he claimed his denso o2 sensor to be the problem with car bucking. And he replaced it with an oem o2 sensor and the issue cleared up. But idk I've usually had ok luck with the denso sensor.

I did notice if I cruise with car usually don't have issue. But if I start beating on it and come to a stop idle will start surging again. Or if I make a random turn say I decide to randomly go to like say dunking donuts off taco bell then randomly decide not to lol.
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Old 02-19-2021, 09:03 PM   #21
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Another member had same issue and he claimed his denso o2 sensor to be the problem with car bucking. And he replaced it with an oem o2 sensor and the issue cleared up. But idk I've usually had ok luck with the denso sensor.

I did notice if I cruise with car usually don't have issue. But if I start beating on it and come to a stop idle will start surging again. Or if I make a random turn say I decide to randomly go to like say dunking donuts off taco bell then randomly decide not to lol.

I was logging other day and my avcs was also jumping around a lot. Like really fast between say 6 and 7 cruising. Next time I checked it out seemed solid at 12 cruising. And made slower number changes. But af correction one still jumping from negatives back to 0 at stop light it's always at 0 usually no issues when warm. Unless I drop it into neutral and cost the car. Then it'll do same.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:50 AM   #22
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You ever figure this out? If I remove ground on drivers side. And link them together the misfire goes away but out runs really rich at idle. But it definitely fixes that issue for sure. And puts a smile on my face lol. Otherwise I just wanna squeeze the life right out of the car lol or best it with a hammer when it stats acting up.
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:11 PM   #23
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You ever figure this out? If I remove ground on drivers side. And link them together the misfire goes away but out runs really rich at idle. But it definitely fixes that issue for sure. And puts a smile on my face lol. Otherwise I just wanna squeeze the life right out of the car lol or best it with a hammer when it stats acting up.
Maybe you're looking at a grounding issue then. Could be worth replacing the wiring harness for peace of mind.
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Old 02-26-2021, 10:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
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You ever figure this out? If I remove ground on drivers side. And link them together the misfire goes away but out runs really rich at idle. But it definitely fixes that issue for sure. And puts a smile on my face lol. Otherwise I just wanna squeeze the life right out of the car lol or best it with a hammer when it stats acting up.
So I donít want to jinx myself and get my hopes up. But I may have found an electrical issue from a repair I did on the alternator harness back in the past. More to follow.
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Old 02-27-2021, 02:20 PM   #25
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I thought it was the repair I made because I can hear the alternator whining when I touched the harness. Afterward, I pulled the main green alternator plug and noticed two pins were damaged inside. I have to replace alternator plug...weíll see what happens.
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