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Old 06-15-2023, 12:11 PM   #326
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Right... so what's confusing/frustrating is why the corporate toyota/subaru are letting the dealerships ruin the car-buying experience for their customers and pull in a ton of profit via ADM, while if they just produced more cars (shifted production so they're not over producing some and under producing others), customers would be more happy, corporate would be making more money, and dealers would likely be making the same because they'd be making less on more transactions...

Maybe they're trying to protect themselves from a potential recession? Maybe they need to keep the balance shifted for CAFE requirements? Whatever the reason, it's frustrating.
So, "Subaru" doesn't want their retailers doing it. I heard Doll address them a couple years back and he said a couple things that made me when I heard it. They are limited on what they can directly control with a retailer under the agreements, however. From what I understand, many stopped. Others didn't.

I don't think they are over producing anything at this point. In my opinion, the twins are not a priority for Subaru(and maybe not Toyota) when they can't make enough of the bread and butter.
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Old 06-15-2023, 01:05 PM   #327
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Old 06-16-2023, 12:21 AM   #328
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So, "Subaru" doesn't want their retailers doing it. I heard Doll address them a couple years back and he said a couple things that made me when I heard it. They are limited on what they can directly control with a retailer under the agreements, however. From what I understand, many stopped. Others didn't.

I don't think they are over producing anything at this point. In my opinion, the twins are not a priority for Subaru(and maybe not Toyota) when they can't make enough of the bread and butter.
you're right, Subaru dealers aren't doing much in the way of ADM, but they do still have really low supply and therefore it's a wait to get a hold of one.

I see tons of outbacks sitting on local lots, some with significant discounts. Same with WRX's although the local discounts are now mostly limited to CVT powered wrx's.
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Old 06-16-2023, 11:11 AM   #329
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double
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Old 06-16-2023, 11:11 AM   #330
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I remember doing the math and suggesting that the updated engine in the BRZ would allow it to hang with the WRX.

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http://youtu.be/sGW3LyTtqHk


IB: but snow
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Old 06-17-2023, 03:56 PM   #331
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Don't need no turbo
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....IB: but snow
9/10 in a monsoon....
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Old 06-18-2023, 09:00 PM   #332
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Don't need no turbo

9/10 in a monsoon....
There have been few videos of folks horsing in the snow with the new BRZ/86.

notbadobama.jpg
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Old 06-20-2023, 04:06 AM   #333
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https://www.subaru.co.jp/news-en/202...=newsletter-en

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Subaru Develops EyeSight for Manual Transmission Vehicles
To be introduced in Japan on the Subaru BRZ debuting this fall
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Old 06-20-2023, 07:33 AM   #334
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Okay awesome but that news definitely deserves its own thread. People have been begging for it.
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Old 06-20-2023, 10:21 AM   #335
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Okay awesome but that news definitely deserves its own thread. People have been begging for it.
For sure... and like a half a decade behind their competitors.

I'm curious to see how well it works. My Golf R was able to maintain adaptive cruise control even through up/down shifts.
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Old 06-20-2023, 12:08 PM   #336
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Hmm, maybe that means we will see some manuals come back in other models/trims?
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Old 06-20-2023, 01:15 PM   #337
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Hmm, maybe that means we will see some manuals come back in other models/trims?
The article states it's for the Japanese market currently, that could expand, and likely will. I'm thinking at best it means the 6mt WRX will get eyesight in a future iteration as it has a high take rate.

I highly doubt they will stuff a manual box back into any Legacy, Forester, or other larger crossovers; crosstrek and impreza are the most likely candidates, but the manual take rates were 5%-8% at best, so again, I doubt it. Dropping the manual simplified & helped to increase the efficiency of their assembly line.
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Old 06-20-2023, 01:24 PM   #338
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WRX GT with a 6MT and EyeSight sounds about right. It's too bad the Impreza RS didn't come with a manual and EyeSight. Crosstrek Sport would be great for it too.

But, as mentioned, they won't be going backwards. Whatever has a manual now is what might have EyeSight optioned with that in the future. Gotta make the entire lineup safe!
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Old 06-20-2023, 04:04 PM   #339
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Hmm, maybe that means we will see some manuals come back in other models/trims?
I agree this is unlikely, but definitely massive news. It's essentially saying there is a future for Subaru built manual vehicles. Before this, their days were numbered. I mean they're still numbered, but differently.

I would have loved to have it on mine, honestly
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Old 06-20-2023, 10:41 PM   #340
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For sure... and like a half a decade behind their competitors.

I'm curious to see how well it works. My Golf R was able to maintain adaptive cruise control even through up/down shifts.



Seems like you are forgetting how small SBR is. Especially to what you are comparing to. I have zero clue about other manufacturers; but, it took 20 years from the first time they suggested it, until a "full" version of EyeSight hit the roads. At least 10 years after they had a road going prototype. I'm sure it took more effort to implement THEIR system to a manual. Shoot, BRZ's current EyeSight isn't even a full version of what the rest of SOA's cars get....which isn't the full version that JDMs get.
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Old 06-21-2023, 02:19 PM   #341
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I agree this is unlikely, but definitely massive news. It's essentially saying there is a future for Subaru built manual vehicles. Before this, their days were numbered. I mean they're still numbered, but differently.

I would have loved to have it on mine, honestly
any investment by them in the manual transmission is a statement that they intend for it to be around for a while, which as you say, it's good.
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Old 06-21-2023, 03:15 PM   #342
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Seems like you are forgetting how small SBR is. Especially to what you are comparing to. I have zero clue about other manufacturers; but, it took 20 years from the first time they suggested it, until a "full" version of EyeSight hit the roads. At least 10 years after they had a road going prototype. I'm sure it took more effort to implement THEIR system to a manual. Shoot, BRZ's current EyeSight isn't even a full version of what the rest of SOA's cars get....which isn't the full version that JDMs get.
Mazda is smaller and has implemented these systems on their manual vehicles. That's just one example that I can find quickly, I'm sure there's more...
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Old 06-21-2023, 03:18 PM   #343
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Subaru's main concern is safety, so they're crazy slow to adopt new things until they're tried and true. Like small town mentality.
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Old 06-21-2023, 04:06 PM   #344
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Mazda is smaller and has implemented these systems on their manual vehicles. That's just one example that I can find quickly, I'm sure there's more...
Mazda is smaller than SBR globally? Suzuki doesn't even exist here anymore and they STILL sell double SBR.
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Old 06-21-2023, 06:51 PM   #345
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...tion-revealed/

New performance package with brakes and dampers. Probably also coming for BRZ. Also mentions the adaptive cruise and other safety features.

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Old 06-21-2023, 06:59 PM   #346
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Well damn, I want that.
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Old 06-21-2023, 11:10 PM   #347
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Well damn, I want that.
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Old 06-22-2023, 12:57 PM   #348
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So I definitely pooped my pants at this news. But a few things made me un-poop my pants.

1. The special edition is meh. It can be had in red (that is my color) and the decals can be removed but I'm left with the wrong color wheels and spoiler vs. what I'd want. The main plus with it is that PP is factory installed...

1. PP is a dealer installed option for the non-special edition GR86. Pretty sure you'll have to pay for both sets of brakes and dampers, which is

2. Manual cars don't get auto hi-beams. That's the main thing I'd actually use from the advanced safety features suite
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Old 06-22-2023, 01:39 PM   #349
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Mazda is smaller than SBR globally? Suzuki doesn't even exist here anymore and they STILL sell double SBR.
https://companiesmarketcap.com/autom...by-market-cap/

The system doesn't need significant re-design to work with a manual transmission. The only thing that might need some tweaking is the adaptive cruise control, but that's a pretty simple programming change with some follow up testing. The rest of it functions identically. A manual car may stall out due to emergency braking, there is no programming that will change that. Steering and lane keep, unaffected.

I think they just wanted the manual to die and didn't think it was worth the cost. But they're now realizing that the desire for a manual is still strong enough to keep it going, so they finally told their programmers to make it happen because they want the press of saying that all their cars come with it standard (like many other manufacturers can already do, Mazda included).

They could have also been trying to listen to the enthusiasts - a lot of them don't want automatic anything in their manual cars, which I can understand. That played to their budget, since they never had to re-work cruise control to deal with the manual trans. I'd personally be okay with the emergency braking, it's saved me once on a on right turn yield where the car in front of me should have gone but they didn't, and I'm turned looking for incoming traffic. My latest car acquisition doesn't have it though, so whatever.

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Old 06-22-2023, 03:32 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
https://companiesmarketcap.com/autom...by-market-cap/

The system doesn't need significant re-design to work with a manual transmission. The only thing that might need some tweaking is the adaptive cruise control, but that's a pretty simple programming change with some follow up testing. The rest of it functions identically. A manual car may stall out due to emergency braking, there is no programming that will change that. Steering and lane keep, unaffected.

I think they just wanted the manual to die and didn't think it was worth the cost. But they're now realizing that the desire for a manual is still strong enough to keep it going, so they finally told their programmers to make it happen because they want the press of saying that all their cars come with it standard (like many other manufacturers can already do, Mazda included).

They could have also been trying to listen to the enthusiasts - a lot of them don't want automatic anything in their manual cars, which I can understand. That played to their budget, since they never had to re-work cruise control to deal with the manual trans. I'd personally be okay with the emergency braking, it's saved me once on a on right turn yield where the car in front of me should have gone but they didn't, and I'm turned looking for incoming traffic. My latest car acquisition doesn't have it though, so whatever.
I can agree to that last paragraph. They did go through a period of spending a ton of money all over the place. They may have seen that as not a good investment on their money. Not to say they didn't have some folks working on it. I still think it just took them longer to get what they wanted out of it. EyeSight is recognized as one of the better systems on the market. They surely don't want to stain that with something inferior.
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