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Old 11-17-2015, 02:29 PM   #1
CO_Subie_22
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Default TMIC Vs. Verticooler

I have a 15' WRX and I'm running stage 1 now. I am getting ready to go stage 2, and trying to figure out more about the new verticoolers that are out ( http://www.processwest.com.au/produc...rcooler-system ) compared to the typical TMIC ( http://www.mishimoto.com/subaru-wrx-...er-kit-15.html )

Thoughts?
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:40 PM   #2
rich260z
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I've seen a few in person, and I do say they look beefy, They are thicker than my Grimmspeed TMIC for my 2012. I don't know if I believe the whole flow of air thing being smoothed out.

That and my GS TMIC is absolutely fine for anything that ever plan on going with.

I would also consider the killer b tmic if you can wait for it. I have a set of their headers, and goddamn can they make great quality parts.

What type of turbo/psi are you planning on going with?
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich260z View Post
I've seen a few in person, and I do say they look beefy, They are thicker than my Grimmspeed TMIC for my 2012. I don't know if I believe the whole flow of air thing being smoothed out.

That and my GS TMIC is absolutely fine for anything that ever plan on going with.

I would also consider the killer b tmic if you can wait for it. I have a set of their headers, and goddamn can they make great quality parts.

What type of turbo/psi are you planning on going with?

I have been wanting to run into someone that has one, but they seem to be pretty uncommon so far.

I don't plan on honestly changing out the turbo or any of that stuff. I am just going to go stage 2 w/ a protune and a 3-port probably. I have just been told (and read) how the wrx OEM IC isn't efficient and the aftermarket ones are much better/more efficient.

It seems that they are just a physical difference (looks) but no performance? I am hoping I'm wrong though. Someone please correct me lol
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:54 AM   #4
rich260z
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Well for my case, the stock tmic on my wrx has plastic end tanks, which is why my tuner recommended something better than that if I wanted to shoot for 18psi. I also knew that I was going to go e85 down the road, so I wanted to get something beefy.

I would actually ask whoever you plan on having tune the car what they suggest in terms of bang-for-buck performance. You might not even get anywhere close to needing something as large as the GS or process west unit.

For reference, my friend had just a catless dp and a protune, was set to 17psi, and put down like 10-15hp less than me. I had spent basically an extra $1000 on a tmic and intake, which if I wasn't going e85 is not bang for buck.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:30 PM   #5
CO_Subie_22
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Well I ordered the PW verticooler along with a bov and 3-port so we shall see. I'll post some number and info up when I get it.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:38 PM   #6
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I have the Verticooler for the 15 WRX and when I measured it, it was 4 3/4 inch thick. The thickness is allowed because it's not laying flat, but at an angle. The tuner really liked tuning with it and said it definitely allowed them to add extra timing.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:57 PM   #7
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from a common sense standpoint, why make the airflow traverse a hard 90* corner to go straight down through the scoop if you don't need to (as the oem config does)?

i think it's a good idea.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:20 PM   #8
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FYI. Here is a shot of my engine bay.



The verticooler just looks at home on these cars.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
from a common sense standpoint, why make the airflow traverse a hard 90* corner to go straight down through the scoop if you don't need to (as the oem config does)?

i think it's a good idea.
There are two things to consider. Getting air in, and getting it back out after its been heated. The verticooler improves going in, but puts the backside facing against the firewall, not facing down where there's a direct path to vacuum.

It's difficult to validate the effect, since the core itself is also different. If the verticooler's 'ambient flow benefit' is to be documented as better, the same core would need to be run in both orientations.

The latest gen WRX/STi has better TMIC airflow than the previous gen, likely due to improved aero under the car. Verticooler is likely more effective on GR from an ambient airflow perspective because of this.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
There are two things to consider. Getting air in, and getting it back out after its been heated. The verticooler improves going in, but puts the backside facing against the firewall, not facing down where there's a direct path to vacuum.

.
seems to me like oem doesn't face vacuum as much as a transmission bellhousing?
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:55 AM   #11
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seems to me like oem doesn't face vacuum as much as a transmission bellhousing?
Air flows much better around round things vs facing a flat surfaces, and because the bellhousing/tranny is roundish the ends are much more exposed.

There is no "perfect" solution in a street cars engine bay, period. I agree with you on that one. The point I was making is that there is no TMIC data (that I've seen anyway) showing that different placements if the I/C actually improves the I/Cs efficiency.

I thought it was a really neat concept when I first saw it, until I saw one in person. Then it seemed apparent that the inefficiencies of the front side, were just moved to the backside. I could be wrong.

The OEMs put ungodly amounts of money into R&D for things like this as it directly effects performance and efficiency, but costs nothing (after the development costs, which they are going through anyway with a new model) in manufacturing cost. I highly doubt the verticooler was exposed to many months of incredibly complex engineering and software simulations, wind tunnel testing, and many road life test studies. Few aftermarket manufacturers have the resources to do it.

Again, to be clear, I'm not saying their product doesn't perform better than OEM. It should, if its got a decent core. I am just questioning the validity of the location as superior.
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:54 AM   #12
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Even though I own it, I definitely don't disagree that it's more of a marketing trick. I'm sure the difference between TMIC laying flat and one sitting at an angle are probably even negotiable for the differences in the real world application. But it does look nice sitting at an angle and I'm guess being at an angle allows for a ticker tank/core. It was very heavy, thick and well built.

I was going to go with KillberB but just didn't have the schedule to wait (or patience). Plus I got a very good deal on this ($820 shipped new). I would always recommend their products over others just for the quality and CS. Plus them being somewhat local makes me feel like I should support them.

So far I am not disappointed with the Verticooler though. The guys at All Aspects Motorsports said they really liked tuning with it and he was definitely able to add some extra timing with the PW TMIC. They said the power never dropped on the 3 back to back pulls which works for me because my WRX is just for the streets/back roads.

I think you can't go wrong with PW, KillberB, Grimspeed. I would stay away from the Mishimoto stuff honestly. I just constantly see comments about their products and stuff always going back on the used market.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Air flows much better around round things vs facing a flat surfaces, and because the bellhousing/tranny is roundish the ends are much more exposed.

The OEMs put ungodly amounts of money into R&D for things like this as it directly effects performance and efficiency, but costs nothing (after the development costs, which they are going through anyway with a new model) in manufacturing cost. I highly doubt the verticooler was exposed to many months of incredibly complex engineering and software simulations, wind tunnel testing, and many road life test studies. Few aftermarket manufacturers have the resources to do it.
Totally true. Look at the front of an airliner that travels 600 mph. It isn't shaped like a ferrari, it's shaped more like a prius. Doesn't look as cool but that's not what Boeing was going for. In reality, the most aerodynamic shape for moderate speeds is the shape of a stupid looking bubble with flowing curves.

And there's no way the OEM designers didn't consider 10 different angles to mount that thing and test them all. If I had to bet my next 5 paychecks on which flows more air in REAL world conditions I'd be betting on oem and making some money.
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:10 AM   #14
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I guess that's why fhi decided to go fmic, because it works the best?
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Old 12-03-2015, 11:59 PM   #15
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I dont think anyone will disagree that a fmic cools better than a tmic. However, the downside is obviously the longer airflow path.

The other consideration is how much the air heats back up after the fmic compared to a tmic that once cooled goes straight into the engine.

Once again there are pros and cons to both and it depends on what you use the car for.

I use mine on the track every now and again so went with the fmic to have the best chance at keeping temps down lap after lap. But I am sacrificing some response. For a moderately powered daily then a tmic would most likely be great. But perhaps you live in a super hot climate so maybe a fmic would be better etc etc
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Old 12-05-2015, 08:13 AM   #16
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if you search around on Harvey's FB page @ "theboostcreep", he's posted up pics of the verticooler with a infrared camera, during and after pulls. Granted, its basically static airflow through the thing on the dyno, but still pretty cool to look at. (no pun intended, haha)
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:30 PM   #17
simplywil
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anybody who has a verticooler installed on their 15 wrx able to get a strut tower bar on as well?
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Old 06-15-2016, 10:16 AM   #18
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Anyone know the cheapest place to pickup the verticooler?
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:39 PM   #19
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max hp on Grimspeed and PW Verticooler and PW reg tmic?
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Old 03-19-2018, 08:11 PM   #20
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I got one in my 2011, let me say the intercooler is worth every penny, well build and it works wonders, after sprites driving the core is nice and cool, my tuner was able to put 21lbs and the car wanted more but be stock clutch we left it at 370, Of course the 71hta helped
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h4root View Post
max hp on Grimspeed and PW Verticooler and PW reg tmic?
I'm at 440+whp with my verticooler. The manifold air temp never exceeds 20 over ambient during a pull with 24#s of boost. The air is likely less than ambient once it gets by the water meth injectors. With this intercooler and water meth a FMIC just isn't necessary. I wouldn't want to give up any spool anyways.
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Old 04-01-2018, 11:46 AM   #22
killadawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undyjr View Post
I'm at 440+whp with my verticooler. The manifold air temp never exceeds 20 over ambient during a pull with 24#s of boost. The air is likely less than ambient once it gets by the water meth injectors. With this intercooler and water meth a FMIC just isn't necessary. I wouldn't want to give up any spool anyways.
<br />
I must agree!! Similar setup to what I'm setting up currently. Using KB TMIC...I'm also running an external misting sprayer and pump combo to wet the intercooler at certain temps and boost. http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&amp;cPath=68_283& amp;products_id=2046<br />
<br />
So if temps get out of hand it cools down the intercooler, thus really eliminating the need to go FMIC if we keep the power under 500whp.. which I'm not planning to exceed as this car has become more DD Than track these days.. with an external sprayer, you might even be able to mitigate heat soak on the OEM unit and not need an aftermarket tmic after all..

Last edited by killadawg; 04-05-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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