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Old 10-28-2015, 10:53 AM   #126
mspeed6
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Yeah like Subaru's 2.5l turbo 4, oh wait those engines blow too......
granted subarus are pretty overrated.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:05 AM   #127
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The RX8 was like 36k wasn't it?
When they came out, the base model was $27K, the Grand Touring was somewhere around $32K loaded IIRC. By the end of it's lifespan I think the prices swelled maybe ~$2K.
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:27 PM   #128
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I seriously doubt that IF it comes to market, it will look anything like the concept. I also think that 40k is wishful. The RX8 was like 36k wasn't it?
RX8 started at $25k, back in 2004.

Mazda's been pretty good about bringing production models close to it's counterpart concept recently, with really only the changes needed for practicality. Only Jaguar stays more faithful it seems.

Mazda Takeri -> Mazda6




Mazda Minagi -> Mazda CX5


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Old 10-28-2015, 05:15 PM   #129
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Mazda really need to give up on the rotary. With one one manufacturer developing the engine tech, there is no way it can keep with with piston engines that has billions of R&D poured in to it. Rotory engines has always been unreliable and awful on fuel economy, somehow I doubt its gonna change. Just drop in a a turbo 2.5.
the chassis is built around the engine. That's how it's been since the early Rx-7 . No matter what "LS1's are smaller and lighter than rotary engines" bull**** is floating around on the internet, you simply can't beat the rotary engine for power density and packaging.

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Old 10-28-2015, 09:35 PM   #130
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HOLY SHI.

Why they need such a big and long hood for such a tiny rotaries????
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:25 PM   #131
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HOLY SHI.

Why they need such a big and long hood for such a tiny rotaries????
It's a concept. Much more artistic license is taken than would be for a production design.
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:55 PM   #132
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Again, for the inevitable V8 swaps people!
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:52 AM   #133
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If it's more than 2 rotors then it would need a longer hood. Granted, that seems unlikely, but a 3 or 4 rotor n/a would be pretty interesting.
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:37 AM   #134
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the chassis is built around the engine. That's how it's been since the early Rx-7 . No matter what "LS1's are smaller and lighter than rotary engines" bull**** is floating around on the internet, you simply can't beat the rotary engine for power density and packaging.
i dont' care about the size... still doesn't change the fact that the rotory engines are unreliable, will leave you stranded and guzzles gas like a full size truck while slower than your typical civic.
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:55 AM   #135
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the chassis is built around the engine. That's how it's been since the early Rx-7 . No matter what "LS1's are smaller and lighter than rotary engines" bull**** is floating around on the internet, you simply can't beat the rotary engine for power density and packaging.

Notice the bottoms of the 3 engines shown don't line up (and doesn't include the v8s). Bad graphic is bad.

--kC
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:02 AM   #136
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i dont' care about the size... still doesn't change the fact that the rotory engines are unreliable, will leave you stranded and guzzles gas like a full size truck while slower than your typical civic.
People just dont get rotaries. They just dont. Have you ever owned one? You are aware that they have existed far before the RX7 and RX8, correct? Mine took all the abuse I could dish out with my 19YO foot and never had any reliability issues, and it only guzzled gas when I was running it hard over 10k rpm.

And it was fast, very fast, like almost streetbike fast at the time. I gave more than one crotchrocket a run for its money.

Last edited by left footed whooten; 10-29-2015 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:03 AM   #137
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Notice the bottoms of the 3 engines shown don't line up (and doesn't include the v8s). Bad graphic is bad.

--kC
I thought it was a comparison between wisconsin and michigan.
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:12 AM   #138
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People just dont get rotaries. They just dont. Have you ever owned one? You are aware that they have existed far before the RX7 and RX8, correct? Mine took all the abuse I could dish out with my 19YO foot and never had any reliability issues, and it only guzzled gas when I was running it hard over 10k rpm.

And it was fast, very fast, like almost streetbike fast at the time. I gave more than one crotchrocket a run for its money.
Thats why pretty much every one had multiple replacement engines and resale values similar to yugos? I've driven the RX8, great chassis looking for an engine. Car making this kinda power should not be getting 15mpg.
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:37 AM   #139
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So, have you owned one? Keep reeling, like I said, people just dont get rotaries. They arent piston engines, they need different care and feeding. When you get a dog, but treat it like a cat and expect a cat, it wont be a very good cat. If you keep your foot mashed down on the gas all the time, then yes, poor mpg you will get, just like with any car, yugo included.

You dont have enough experience with a rotary to have any idea what you are talking about. If all you did was drive an RX8, then you dont know a thing. Anectdotal evidence is anecdotal, not factual.
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:41 AM   #140
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Screw the rotary, that front end is ripe for a turbine.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:10 PM   #141
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So, have you owned one? Keep reeling, like I said, people just dont get rotaries. They arent piston engines, they need different care and feeding. When you get a dog, but treat it like a cat and expect a cat, it wont be a very good cat. If you keep your foot mashed down on the gas all the time, then yes, poor mpg you will get, just like with any car, yugo included.

You dont have enough experience with a rotary to have any idea what you are talking about. If all you did was drive an RX8, then you dont know a thing. Anectdotal evidence is anecdotal, not factual.
I owned a '93 RX7 and an '05 RX8.

I could deal with adding oil every fill up and letting them cool down for a minute after a drive, but the RX7 was unreliable and the best mileage I saw out of either was 23mpg.
Hell, I've owned an '02 and a '12 Wrangler that I have managed to get 21 and 24 mpg out of, and they're both lifted boxes with big tires.

The rotary cars are just a constant disappointment to me. I have never driven one that I didn't think would have been better with a piston engine under the hood.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:27 PM   #142
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I owned a '93 RX7 and an '05 RX8.

I could deal with adding oil every fill up and letting them cool down for a minute after a drive, but the RX7 was unreliable and the best mileage I saw out of either was 23mpg.
Hell, I've owned an '02 and a '12 Wrangler that I have managed to get 21 and 24 mpg out of, and they're both lifted boxes with big tires.

The rotary cars are just a constant disappointment to me. I have never driven one that I didn't think would have been better with a piston engine under the hood.
'93-'95 RX7 issues are more about the ridiculously complicated sequential turbo system, as oppose to the actual design of the rotary itself. As mentioned earlier, swapping out the twin turbos and 70+ vacuum lines for a single, BB turbo and three vacuum lines was a much a 'reliability mod' for me, as it was a performance upgrade.

Prior to '93, 1st and 2nd gen NA RX7s were known to go a few hundred thousand miles without problems. There is a reason why rotaries are used in some aircraft. I don't think it would have even been a consideration in this application if the basic rotary was inherently unreliable.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:35 PM   #143
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There is a reason why rotaries are used in some aircraft.
Name one that isn't experimental. They might have a good power to weight ratio and are compact but that's it for pluses in aircraft.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:49 PM   #144
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Before the Twins were announced, I was seriously considering an RX-8, but was put off by the horror stories I'd heard about the rotary, on top of some of the local guys having engine troubles here and there. Then after I got my BRZ, a couple of more "mature" RX-8 owners chimed in that their cars were fine because they treated them responsibly.

That's generally the rule with any car. I drive the crap out of my BRZ, but I do regular maintenance on it even if it kind of hurts my wallet (already got new spark plugs, they started trouble a few thousand miles sooner than what the manual dictated). I wouldn't be ashamed to sell it in it's current used condition. I wash it several times a week, unless it's been raining like crazy.

Anyways, if Mazda sees potential for the rotary and can make significant improvements on the design, that'd be cool, but I didn't think they could really afford to play the "pure sports car" game just yet. I wish they could steal sales away from Nissan and improve their standing. Mazdas are much more appealing.
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Old 10-29-2015, 01:33 PM   #145
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I owned a '93 RX7 and an '05 RX8.

I could deal with adding oil every fill up and letting them cool down for a minute after a drive, but the RX7 was unreliable and the best mileage I saw out of either was 23mpg.
Hell, I've owned an '02 and a '12 Wrangler that I have managed to get 21 and 24 mpg out of, and they're both lifted boxes with big tires.

The rotary cars are just a constant disappointment to me. I have never driven one that I didn't think would have been better with a piston engine under the hood.
I would like to think your experiences would have been better if you had first had an older model. The FD was a radical move from anywhere theyd taken an RE before.

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'93-'95 RX7 issues are more about the ridiculously complicated sequential turbo system, as oppose to the actual design of the rotary itself. As mentioned earlier, swapping out the twin turbos and 70+ vacuum lines for a single, BB turbo and three vacuum lines was a much a 'reliability mod' for me, as it was a performance upgrade.

Prior to '93, 1st and 2nd gen NA RX7s were known to go a few hundred thousand miles without problems. There is a reason why rotaries are used in some aircraft. I don't think it would have even been a consideration in this application if the basic rotary was inherently unreliable.
Couldnt agree more. The older rotaries were reliable, people who modded generally went with big 4bbl carbs and porting rather than forced induction. You could have a pretty heavily modded engine and have it still be reliable, and mpg was directly proportional to the amount of pedal you used. I flogged my RX2 mercilessly, kept up on maintenance, cooled down appropriately after hard use, and it lived to get passed on and then some. It could get 8mpg or 28 (almost) depending on how much loud pedal.

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Old 10-29-2015, 01:36 PM   #146
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Until mazda eliminates the need for thought and involvement in order to own a rotary car, theyre gonna have problems, especially if it has forced induction. Most folks arent the type to be involved enough to keep up on oil, etc. The cult following isnt enough.

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Old 10-29-2015, 02:00 PM   #147
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Notice the bottoms of the 3 engines shown don't line up (and doesn't include the v8s). Bad graphic is bad.

--kC
I think the overlays are aligned around the output shaft.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:09 PM   #148
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People just dont get rotaries. They just dont. Have you ever owned one? You are aware that they have existed far before the RX7 and RX8, correct? Mine took all the abuse I could dish out with my 19YO foot and never had any reliability issues, and it only guzzled gas when I was running it hard over 10k rpm.

And it was fast, very fast, like almost streetbike fast at the time. I gave more than one crotchrocket a run for its money.
and you keep on thinking rotory is a better alternative to pistons.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:17 PM   #149
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Do I? Show me where I ever said or thought that?
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:18 PM   #150
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Do I? Show me where I ever said or thought that?
you sure sound like it does, Rotory engines are inferior to pistons and it will always be long as there is only one car maker investing R&D in to it.
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