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Old 01-16-2020, 11:18 PM   #376
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:31 AM   #377
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yeah, that's the article that I was thinking about. It'd be kinda sweet to have a kit designed for a specific car where you replace the drivetrain and gas tank with equiv EV parts. Leave the transmission in for for cars like a Miata so you can still shift gears. torque is a concern with the transmissions tho and so is RPM.
Funny thing, electricity... you can actually control it's flow a lot easier than air/fuel mixtures, with a couple controls, and some programming.

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Old 01-17-2020, 07:21 AM   #378
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Funny thing, electricity... you can actually control it's flow a lot easier than air/fuel mixtures, with a couple controls, and some programming.

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Puny humans and your science; Mjolner is all I need to control the flow of electricity.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:23 AM   #379
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I agree, but for a similar power-to-weight ratio it'll need at least ~280-300 hp & 300 lb-ft given the inevitable weight gain from a larger, more powerful turbocharged engine & supporting drivetrain. Especially considering the smaller, 2 seater, 4 cylinder Supra comes in around ~3,200 lbs.

A turbo FA24DIT BRZ would be the enthusiast's dream delivering the power that everyone has been asking for. But achieving a similar power-to-weight would require applying "STI" level treatment to the FA24DIT or significantly reducing the curb weight (increased cost). In its current form, the FA24DIT makes 260 hp & 277 lb-ft from 2,000 - 4,800 rpm. The EcoBoost provides a nice broad torque band making 315-350 lb-ft from 3,000 - 6,500 rpm. It's definitely possible to add another 40+ hp & tq to the FA24DIT, but would Toyobaru put a STI trim engine (w/ D-4S) in the twins? Modern day 22B?

Regardless, I just hope the next gen performance FA DIT engines don't suffer from the same Subaru OEM tuning woes. They're amazing once you add an aftermarket flex fuel tune, but driving my FA20DIT WRX on 91 during California's summer heat was scary at times. I never knew when I could rely on the power when pulling out from a stop.

FWIW, reviews have highly praised the 2020 Mustang EcoBoost w/ the High Performance & Handling Packages as it borrows parts from the Focus RS, GT PP2 & GT350. It should put up a good fight against a turbo BRZ/86 unless Toyobaru delivers something truly awe-inspiring while keeping it reasonably priced (eg budget Supra w/ manual trans). Hopefully we get to see a track comparison sometime in the future

Some reviews regarding the Handling Package dynamics:









Okay, this was my last post on the EcoBoost
The aftermarket should easily get a turboed BRZ to where it needs to be power wise if it starts out at 255 without effecting reliability or daily drivability.

The reviews I read with the GT that included the magnaride said it wasnít at the same level as the gt350 possibly because of different steering and suspension components that the GT still lacks even with the PP2 package. Either way, I have enough experience with coilover setups (the gt350 is the only car I havenít put them on) that I know I can do as well or better with those abs still have it streetable (you just have to buy quality and know how to set it up). Modest power mods and suspension should have a from the factory FI BRZ where the echoboost just cannot make up the difference except maybe 1/4 mile drag race
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:06 AM   #380
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5 teenagers and a keg.
Alright alright alright. You know what I like about these high school girls? I get older and they stay the same age. Yes they do.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:46 AM   #381
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The aftermarket should easily get a turboed BRZ to where it needs to be power wise if it starts out at 255 without effecting reliability or daily drivability.

The reviews I read with the GT that included the magnaride said it wasnít at the same level as the gt350 possibly because of different steering and suspension components that the GT still lacks even with the PP2 package. Either way, I have enough experience with coilover setups (the gt350 is the only car I havenít put them on) that I know I can do as well or better with those abs still have it streetable (you just have to buy quality and know how to set it up). Modest power mods and suspension should have a from the factory FI BRZ where the echoboost just cannot make up the difference except maybe 1/4 mile drag race
Anything is possible once you bring in the aftermarket.

FWIW, there was only a 2 second difference between the GT350R and the GT PP2 in Car & Driver's VIR Lightning Lap (2:51.8 vs 2:53.8). They both dominated the sub-$65k LL2 class. For reference, the M2C ran a 2:59.7 and the Supra ran a 3:01.4. The GT PP2 offers unrivaled performance at the $45k price point.

Obviously track times only indicate capability based on the track and don't always directly translate to the driving experience. I would expect a lighter BRZ to offer a better driving experience regardless of capability.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:36 PM   #382
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yeah, that's the article that I was thinking about. It'd be kinda sweet to have a kit designed for a specific car where you replace the drivetrain and gas tank with equiv EV parts. Leave the transmission in for for cars like a Miata so you can still shift gears. torque is a concern with the transmissions tho and so is RPM.
It should be easy for the manufacturer of the EV system to account for torque. In my imagination the EV controller allows you to set the torque and HP curves just like plotting the points on a dyno chart. You could grab any number of dyno charts and just map them in and choose what year miata you want it to emulate, maybe map somebodies killer aftermarket turbo build etc.
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:07 PM   #383
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Anything is possible once you bring in the aftermarket.

FWIW, there was only a 2 second difference between the GT350R and the GT PP2 in Car & Driver's VIR Lightning Lap (2:51.8 vs 2:53.8). They both dominated the sub-$65k LL2 class. For reference, the M2C ran a 2:59.7 and the Supra ran a 3:01.4. The GT PP2 offers unrivaled performance at the $45k price point.

Obviously track times only indicate capability based on the track and don't always directly translate to the driving experience. I would expect a lighter BRZ to offer a better driving experience regardless of capability.
If they reran the lighting lap with the newer gt350 tires and suspension, the difference is probably bigger as I think the PP2 has cup 2 tires. The GT I drove in 2016 was a huge disappointment. I know some others that have put a good coilover set up and cured most of it but from the factory I was expecting more. If fairly painless and easy to get to 325-340hp, I like the idea of the brz with a factory turbo if it stays within a 100 lbs of current weight. I like the feel of a light nimble car. I really love my gt350 but on a small track, autocross or something really traction limited, a lighter car with similar power to wt would beat it. A big track like VIR where it can stretch its legs is where it is more at home. I canít see how it would be different for a EB or GT as my car is either around the same wt or lighter with more power and wider power band. I would consider getting a BRZ with a turbo. I didnít even consider the current model because of the hamster wheel engine power it currently has. I am not in to drag racing but I donít think I can deal with moms in camerys beating me at lights while I am in my ďsports carĒ.
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:11 PM   #384
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Hamster Wheel Engine. LOL! TRUE DAT
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:32 PM   #385
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If fairly painless and easy to get to 325-340hp, I like the idea of the brz with a factory turbo if it stays within a 100 lbs of current weight. I would consider getting a BRZ with a turbo. I didn’t even consider the current model because of the hamster wheel engine power it currently has. I am not in to drag racing but I don’t think I can deal with moms in camerys beating me at lights while I am in my “sports car”.
I probably wouldn't have owned my flex fuel '16 WRX or '19 STI if there had been a sub-3,000 lb FA20DIT BRZ. Having owned FD RX-7s and a S2000, the BRZ just wasn't quite enough in the power department. Maybe if it had revved a bit more in its current naturally aspirated form.. But for it to come over a decade after the 240 HP S2000 and have less power with a similar curb weight..
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:51 PM   #386
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Default Toyota 86 Chief Engineer Promises Next Gen To Exceed Expectations

S2000 was a $32k car... in 2000. That would be $42k in 2012 when the twins were released and $47k today.
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:02 PM   #387
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S2000 was a $32k car... in 2000. That would be $42k in 2012 when the twins were released and $47k today.
Yes, and I would have gladly paid more for a more powerful, high revving or turbo BRZ. Depending on the trim, the BRZ/86 can range from $31-33k.

Inflation can't be analyzed on its own as the market changes as do salaries and cost of living. The Supra was $40k in 1993 (~$72k adjusting for inflation) and starts at $50k in 2020.
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:16 PM   #388
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I would guess that a modern day S2000 would be in the $40-50k price range.
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:31 PM   #389
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FWIW, a 2000 Miata had a MSRP starting around ~$22k and the 2020 starts around $26k.

My guess is a modern S2000 would be in the high 30s to low 40s with similar, naturally aspirated power. No doubt that a modern day, more powerful, 300+ HP turbo S2000 could be in the mid $40s. The S2000 started around $7k more than the Integra Type R in the 2000s.

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Old 01-17-2020, 07:49 PM   #390
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I disagree and see the opposite.

Miatas are smaller cars with less components and less practicality, but cost MORE for the good spec models. Club models with the Recaro/Brembo package are $35k, and almost $40k for the hard top. BRZ's with all the good options are in the low $30s.
*fewer

Bespoke chassis convertibles with dual A-arm suspensions typically have more components and complexity than a mac strut economy car cousin. Look at all the bracing under the body.

Practicality? Really?

Where are the BRZ's Recaros? Who cares how much a fully loaded anything is if you aren't comparing similar vehicles? Even a base model MX-5 will run circles around a loaded BRZ and feel better doing it.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:32 PM   #391
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I just don't see the point of a high output BRZ in this day in age. Unless they can keep the price in check. I get it. People have been craving one since its conception. The problem is will the market respond to it. By the time this thing makes it to market. There will be a plethora of used Turbo Mustangs, V8 Mustangs, used Miatas, and even BRZ / 86 saturating the market. Not to mention a world of Electric cars that are trying to control the market. If they make such a car, I feel they need to keep the price in check and give it a low HP turbo, and allow the aftermarket to fill in the gaps. with that being said, I don't think the world will care when this thing comes to market. Sure there will be those die hard people, but in all honesty. It will become a unicorn on the road that collectors will covet but won't be able to find.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:59 PM   #392
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I think there’s enough kids that’d love a Supra or M2C that’d fill the urge with a BRZ due to economics and reliability concerns.
The WRX/STI has gotten large, long and tall and heavy. I see a turbo BRZ being a real alternative whereas it simply hasn’t been in the past. It’s a torqueless turd now, and **hopefully** that’s about to change in a big way.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:13 PM   #393
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Subaru should make a 2.0 version of their H6 motor for this car. tax compliance with a more interesting experience.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:10 AM   #394
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I think the FA24DIT is a wonderful idea. That would make for a TON of fun.

When is the soonest they could announce? Some articles said 2020. What show(s) would be most probable?
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:35 AM   #395
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No mules have been spied yet. MY22 at the earliest would be my guess.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:50 AM   #396
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W T F

I’m dying here and need something fun. I cannot wait that long.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:26 AM   #397
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...Even a base model MX-5 will run circles around a loaded BRZ and feel better doing it.
This article seems to disagree with you a bit. Your definition of "run circles around" doesn't take much I guess.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/attack...-ar176584.html
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:49 AM   #398
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W T F

Iím dying here and need something fun. I cannot wait that long.
Plenty of fun cars out there....
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:39 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
I just don't see the point of a high output BRZ in this day in age. Unless they can keep the price in check. I get it. People have been craving one since its conception. The problem is will the market respond to it. By the time this thing makes it to market. There will be a plethora of used Turbo Mustangs, V8 Mustangs, used Miatas, and even BRZ / 86 saturating the market. Not to mention a world of Electric cars that are trying to control the market. If they make such a car, I feel they need to keep the price in check and give it a low HP turbo, and allow the aftermarket to fill in the gaps. with that being said, I don't think the world will care when this thing comes to market. Sure there will be those die hard people, but in all honesty. It will become a unicorn on the road that collectors will covet but won't be able to find.
While I disagree that there isnít a place for a high HP brz, I think the strategy of over building it and under tuning it with factory FI is sound. Tuners will buy the car knowing it is a good platform and this Subaru and Toyotacan release it from the factory without effecting their environmental impact averages that much.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:18 PM   #400
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Toyota doing Toyota things: Under promise, over deliver. All sing their praises and birth their children.
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