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Old 07-07-2005, 10:56 PM   #1
Zoinks
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Default Hankook Z212 in 235/40 vs Falken 215 in 225/45 for STX/Daily - Both Unshaven?

A sudden puncture in my 1.5-yr-old Azenis 215 (225/45/17 on a 7.5" wheel) has left me scrambling to research new tires while I see if it's patchable.

The ~$200 premium for the 615's puts them pretty much out of consideration.

However, because these will be my daily driver summer tires, I won't be shaving them. I was thinking the Hankook Z212's would be perfect in 235/40, but it seems like a lot of the kudos they've been getting are strictly based on shaved examples, and that they may not be so competitive without doing so. I'm not competitive nationally or even locally, but I'm autocrossing a lot and I'd be frustrated by taking a step backwards with my tire choice. So two questions:

- How would 235/40 'kooks compare to 225/45 Azenis 215's if both are left unshaven?

- I've heard the two above tires end up being about the same dimensions despite their listed sizes, but just in case: would the be any significant effects from altering the stock diameter with a 235/40 tire on a daily driver?

Any thoughts appreciated. Oh, and I'm a camberless wonder: -1 up front, godknowswhat in the back, 0 toe. That might change if I contribute some cheap tire savings to camber plates...
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:14 AM   #2
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Sorry, I don't have an answer for you...but I'm curious about this as well. Bump for any input!
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:40 AM   #3
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Unshaved, I would choose the Azenis. I got full tread Hankooks this spring as daily driven summer tires. But I couldn't resist running them at an event while they were almost new (less than 500 miles). I wasn't too excited about them. The times were ok at the end of two days, hard to tell how they compare to the Azenis because I didn't run them back to back. But I know for sure that driving the car on the Hankooks wasn't much fun. They had very slow response (somewhat better after raising the tire pressures by 5psi), and I didn't get much of a feeling for the car. I had to steer long before I really wanted to turn, and had to be very early and slow with all my inputs.

I'm also skeptical about how the Hankooks would wear. It wasn't dramatic after 2 days (8 runs) on asphalt, but they showed some wear patterns that I would be worried about if I ran them regularly and on a grippier surface.

I always ran my Azenis from full tread, and thought that they worked well right out of the box. IMHO, the Hankooks really do need to be shaved for serious auto-x use.

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Old 07-08-2005, 12:41 AM   #4
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i ran 225/45/17 215 azenis for a while on my wrx.. including a couple autox seasons (unshaven)

i just put 235/40/17 z212 (unshaven) on my sti.

i'll let you guys know how i like them after my first event.

as for daily driver performance, i don't push them to the limits on the street, but they both are great. no complaints. one thing i can say is i was in a really bad rainstorm and the kooks did better than the azenis would have.. but thats just one experience with the kooks
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:29 AM   #5
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Unshaven the Azenis are definitely better tires. Even shaved the Hankooks don't have the turn in feel of a RT-215 but they have an awful lot of lateral grip.
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Old 07-08-2005, 07:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoinks
A sudden puncture in my 1.5-yr-old Azenis 215 (225/45/17 on a 7.5" wheel)
Wanna buy a single used 215? I've got a couple extra lying around. You run with the philly region right?

-jeff
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Old 07-08-2005, 07:41 AM   #7
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Thanks for the input guys. It's looking like right now it may be worth it to try to track down some new 215's if I can. I really love the way they feel & turn in, and they're dirt cheap, so they'd be perfect. My current set has shown remarkably slow wear despite lousy alignment settings, thousands of highway miles, tons of events, and several schools. They're probably rock hard, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Freak
Wanna buy a single used 215? I've got a couple extra lying around. You run with the philly region right?

-jeff
Jeff, yeah, I try to get to the philly events when they come down to Aberdeen. Thanks for the offer! I may take you up on that, although I suspect our wear patterns may be a bit different. I'm waiting to hear back from the tire shop, so I'll let you know. May be time for a new set anyway.
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Old 07-08-2005, 11:54 AM   #8
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Nothing quite has the turn-in response of the RT-215, and that includes the new RT-615. The Kooks have more lateral and longitudinal grip so if you can drive them without the need for the "super precise" feel then you'll be quicker.

Driving them on the highway/street I thought they were quite comfy at full tread depth. They needed a little scrubbing in right away, and though at full tread depth weren't the world's greatest, I thought they weren't bad.

-Biggly

P.S. The Kook 235/40 and 225/45 RT-215 are almost entirely identical in height and width. The Azenis weighs a bit more, due to it's super-stiff sidewall. I'd also take the Kooks in the rain over the Azenis. Plus I like that the Kooks are the old Azenis price rather than the new Azenis price.

Last edited by DrBiggly; 07-08-2005 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:04 PM   #9
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How are the RT-215's in rain? This has been the main thing holding me back on purchasing them. I autox 2x a month, but it also rains every other day down here in FLA.
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:15 PM   #10
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They are good when they have full tread, but they become awful as they are worn down.
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:17 PM   #11
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Having actually had both tires (in sizes you listed) on my car.....

I'd go with the Hankooks. Like others mentioned, they are a bit more "squirmy" than the 215s but the grip IS there.

No contest : the Hankook is the better rain tire.

Also not normally a consideration but something that might matter since this is a daily driver tire : the Hankooks are a LOT quieter going down the road!
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:30 PM   #12
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Default Delete this

Somebody delete this post.

Last edited by IBAUCLAPlaya; 07-08-2005 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Bad post
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Freak
They are good when they have full tread, but they become awful as they are worn down.
Who are you?

Full tread I would say the azenis would be the faster autox tire, but once the tread is off the tire, the Hankook > 215.

-Tom
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:39 PM   #14
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Can anyone recommend pressures for the hankooks for auto-x?
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:32 PM   #15
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Depending on camber and car weight, you want anywhere from 32-38psi. For an STX WRX with -4.0 front camber, I would recommend a starting press of 35psi.

-Tom
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhoppe
Who are you?
I was commenting on using RT-215 in the rain. Worn Azenis + Rain = Awful. Here let me put post #10 after post #9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MF-DIF
How are the RT-215's in rain? This has been the main thing holding me back on purchasing them. I autox 2x a month, but it also rains every other day down here in FLA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Freak
They are good when they have full tread, but they become awful as they are worn down.
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Old 07-08-2005, 02:13 PM   #17
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I see. Quote then eh I thought you were replying to the original question You can see where my came from.

-Tom
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Old 07-08-2005, 07:34 PM   #18
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Well I ran the 215s for a while on the stock tires and they are awsome. They are basically bald now and only use them for autocross. They don't feel quite as grippy as the did when there was tread. I ran a few events on the ES100s and they felt better...they made me feel more confident in the way the car handled...it could have been in my head, either way I felt more confident with the ES100s. Keep in mind that the ES100s are on 17's and the 215s were on the stockers...don't know if that matters. Once I burn the ES100s, I have some shaved Hankook's waiting, so I'll tell you how those feel.

trhoppe...how did you get -4.0 camber in STX trim?
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Old 07-08-2005, 08:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaruwrx420

trhoppe...how did you get -4.0 camber in STX trim?

camber plates is my assumption

on the car I've been running we guesstimated to be around -6.0 when we first put them on before alignment, with TEIN RA's and their camber plate. The car looked really funny before the align.
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Old 07-08-2005, 08:44 PM   #20
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Yup. If all the stops were pulled you could probably get close to -7.0

With the GC camber plates on Advance Design shocks, the *least* you could get in the front was -2.75.

-Tom
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:03 PM   #21
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Thanks for the help everybody. I ended up sticking with what I knew and getting another set of the RT-215's put on today. I think I was lucky to find them.

The last set were starting to get scary in the rain anyway.
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Old 07-09-2005, 09:03 PM   #22
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Where did you find them? I think I might get another set.

-jeff
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