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Old 03-31-2008, 12:56 AM   #1
2slofouru
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Default 05 ford f150 shuts down when park lights are turned on????

My friend installed a car alarm in his 05 f150 and was driving today and when he switched the parklights on, the truck died!?! After turning the lights off, the truck runs fine. It also won't crank with them on. I checked his install and it seems perfect. Its a basic alarm and only ties into the two doorpins, the ignition, constant 12v and starter wires. The park light output of the alarm is tied into the thick brown 12v wire on the dimmer, that comes from the headlight switch. He also installed a lock motor in the driver's door only and I checked it over, there are no pinched wires anywhere. Nothing is cut through and I can't find anything wrong. The battery is working perfectly and cranks quickly and runs fine. One thing we noticed is if you have the key turned to ignition with the truck not running, and turn the park light switch on, the throttle body motor (drive by wire) starts clicking?!?!? WTF? I've done tons of these trucks and never seen this happen. It almost seems like its a software issue or a ground wire issue, but he never loosened any grounds and we checked every one we could find. We also checked every fuse. Does anyone here have newer ford electrical experience??

Almost forgot: We removed the alarm, everything is disconnected and the starter wire has been soldered back together.... still dies



Thanks..
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Last edited by 2slofouru; 03-31-2008 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:07 AM   #2
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I found your problem right here:



IBi'msuedforusingtheirlogo

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Old 03-31-2008, 01:12 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
I found your problem right here:



IBi'msuedforusingtheirlogo

Vostok 7

Argghh.. you got my hopes up. He needs his truck for work but won't be able to use it tomorrow since he works late. It sucks since he got the alarm to protect the truck, he lives in a lame neighborhood.
And its racking my brain trying to figure it out, I'm searching everywhere. It makes no logical sense, he connected it the same way I've done dozens of times and this is the first time I've seen this. I know that odds are this is what caused it since it happened not long after he put the alarm in, but geez.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:14 AM   #4
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Some drive-by-wire motors move with the engine off but key on the on position.

When the truck dies, does the instrument panel shut off too and comes back? Or does the engine just die, but the panel is illuminated?
If the panel stays illuminated, does the check engine light turn on?
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:20 AM   #5
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I'm going to have to check tomorrow, but we didn't pay attention to the cluster. I believe after it stops, the warning lights come on like normal. I don't know if the gauges do anything special.
The drive by wire motor makes the noises when you have the ignition switch on and turn the park lights on, its weird. And its obviously the motor, you can feel it vibrating and there's no doubt its doing something. It also makes the normal check noises (just for a second) when you first turn the ignition on and don't play with the light switch. Also, if the park light switch is on, the starter motor will clank and make noises and not even turn over. Almost like the battery is dead, but it does the same thing with the charger connected. The voltage isn't dropping low at the battery and the terminals are clean and tight. He never did anything under the hood but mount the siren to a plastic trim panel, and there is nothing behind it, you can touch the backs of the screws.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:28 AM   #6
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He shorted the parking lamp relay to the engine control or starter or ignition relay during the install.

Get a multimeter and a 12 pack of beer.

Good luck with that. Or in other words, consult an automotive electrician. This is why car alarms need to be professionally installed.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:31 AM   #7
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I agree with semabe.

You fixed cars before acting?
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semabe View Post
He shorted the parking lamp relay to the engine control or starter or ignition relay during the install.

Get a multimeter and a 12 pack of beer.

Good luck with that. Or in other words, consult an automotive electrician. This is why car alarms need to be professionally installed.

He didn't short the parking light relay, the park lights and dimmer circuit work fine. The wire puts out 12v+ when they are on, 0v when off. Same as before the install. The ignition wire has 12v+ when on and cranking, just like before. The constant 12v wire is 12v+ all of the time. The starter wire is only 12v+ when cranking. He is a professional, and actually works with me. Its installed verbatim as any other f150 of this year model should be. We even called several other frends who work at other install shops (our city is loaded with car stereo shops) and none of them had even heard of the problem. We are totally puzzled
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
He didn't short the parking light relay, the park lights and dimmer circuit work fine. The wire puts out 12v+ when they are on, 0v when off. Same as before the install. The ignition wire has 12v+ when on and cranking, just like before. The constant 12v wire is 12v+ all of the time. The starter wire is only 12v+ when cranking. He is a professional, and actually works with me. Its installed verbatim as any other f150 of this year model should be. We even called several other frends who work at other install shops (our city is loaded with car stereo shops) and none of them had even heard of the problem. We are totally puzzled

Well, the only possible explanation is that circuit has been somehow shorted to somewhere where it shouldn't be. There's no way in hell, unless some sort of unknown F-150 flux capacitor circuit has been unknowingly installed by ford, that the voltage load from the parking lamps is going to shut down the motor.

If the flip of the switch kills the motor, the circuit has been linked to somewhere it shouldn't have been. Period.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Well, the only possible explanation is that circuit has been somehow shorted to somewhere where it shouldn't be. There's no way in hell, unless some sort of unknown F-150 flux capacitor circuit has been unknowingly installed by ford, that the voltage load from the parking lamps is going to shut down the motor.

If the flip of the switch kills the motor, the circuit has been linked to somewhere it shouldn't have been. Period.
I totally agree something is wrong, and that there's no device installed by ford that magically detects aftermarket crap and shuts the truck down, but that still doesn't mean it was caused by the alarm... Period.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:44 AM   #11
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...


...


...



:shrug:



...



...



...



...get a push bar and auxiliary lights.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I totally agree something is wrong, and that there's no device installed by ford that magically detects aftermarket crap and shuts the truck down, but that still doesn't mean it was caused by the alarm... Period.

Yes it does. Here's an historical anecdote. I had a clifford remote start/alarm put in my suburban. During the install process, one of the ignition wires was nicked by the installer (someone I worked with at a stereo shop.) This wire ended up going to ground against a firewall bolt. Result? The truck would occasionally refuse to shut off, period, without the pulling of the F/I or ECU relay....until we spent about 6 hours with a multimeter chasing the short.

That switch could easily be causing a short somewhere else based upon what was done with the alarm install. Stuff happens, even to pros.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:57 AM   #13
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LOL, did you guys use a spdt relay for the light output? he must have screw up so when the lights are on, it is throwing a ground and shorting the ignition wire.

grab a light wire from a different source, like the lighter lamp.

If he didn't use a relay, the alarm is acting like one and feeding back. I bet he also mixed up the constant and ignition wires.

Last edited by mattjk; 03-31-2008 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:06 AM   #14
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LOL, did you guys use a spdt relay for the light output? he must have screw up so when the lights are on, it is throwing a ground and shorting the ignition wire.

grab a light wire from a different source, like the lighter lamp.
What do you mean "LOL"? The alarm has an internal relay that only uses terminal 30 and 87. 87 is connected to the alarm's internal constant 12v+ and 30 goes to the white wire through a 10 amp fuse to the intended parking light 12v+ circuit wire. This brown wire is tied into the parking light 12v+ circuit (which should have its own fuse ((that apparently isn't blown)) )and the brown wire is connected to the parking lights + lead even with the switch off. You don't have to do anything special with any extra relays to connect the circuit. Its been done MANY times.
I will pull the bcm tomorrow (if I have time) and dissect it to see if there are any fried traces. He didn't pop any fuses and considering his install record and the way he preps and installs I can't see it being his fault. Another sucky thing is he doesn't have the owner's manual (bought it used) so I'll have to hunt around to check relays.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:20 AM   #15
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I find it funny that the car shuts off when the lights are on... I've edited my post with additional info... like I said, only way I could see it happening is if the light wire is throwing a ground when turned on, feeding back through the alarm, then shutting off the car. Check to see if the ign and + wires are mixed up.

don't get all defensive, I've installed car alarms professionally for over 7 years, and I've made some stupid mistakes also.

One time I tried to take a shortcut and grabbed a ground wire from behind the cluster. After the car was fully warmed up, it would not start... I accidently grabbed the wire from a temp sensor.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:40 AM   #16
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If you read my posts you'd see everything is explained in as much detail as possible. We don't take "shortcuts" or grab grounds from anywhere, we use the chassis metal always. C/N: The alarm isn't in the truck and all wires are as they were. The only wire that was cut was the starter wire and its is soldered back together. I thought it was some backfeeding issue as well, until I checked his install. This totally sucks


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjk View Post
I find it funny that the car shuts off when the lights are on... I've edited my post with additional info... like I said, only way I could see it happening is if the light wire is throwing a ground when turned on, feeding back through the alarm, then shutting off the car. Check to see if the ign and + wires are mixed up.

don't get all defensive, I've installed car alarms professionally for over 7 years, and I've made some stupid mistakes also.

One time I tried to take a shortcut and grabbed a ground wire from behind the cluster. After the car was fully warmed up, it would not start... I accidently grabbed the wire from a temp sensor.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjk View Post
I find it funny that the car shuts off when the lights are on... I've edited my post with additional info... like I said, only way I could see it happening is if the light wire is throwing a ground when turned on, feeding back through the alarm, then shutting off the car. Check to see if the ign and + wires are mixed up.

don't get all defensive, I've installed car alarms professionally for over 7 years, and I've made some stupid mistakes also.

One time I tried to take a shortcut and grabbed a ground wire from behind the cluster. After the car was fully warmed up, it would not start... I accidently grabbed the wire from a temp sensor.
Exactly. There's almost no way this is a problem caused by a fault in the factory wiring, and even pros make mistakes. Basically, if the car worked fine before the install, and flicking the parking light switch after the install....even with the alarm removed.....causes a shutdown, something was done incorrectly. Aside from intervention by Satan, there's no other explanation.

It happens. Multimeter, beer, prayer.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:52 AM   #18
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try putting a new battery in the car, maybe with all the testing you drained the battery enough and killed the alternator. if the battery has just enough power to keep the engine alive, the turning on of lights with kill it... if the alternator is not charging.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjk View Post
try putting a new battery in the car, maybe with all the testing you drained the battery enough and killed the alternator. if the battery has just enough power to keep the engine alive, the turning on of lights with kill it... if the alternator is not charging.
Yeah, but it happened while driving after the install and before all the testing.

Or not.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:58 AM   #20
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at this point, if I were them, I'd try everything. also try a new ecu and light relay box.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
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try putting a new battery in the car, maybe with all the testing you drained the battery enough and killed the alternator. if the battery has just enough power to keep the engine alive, the turning on of lights with kill it... if the alternator is not charging.
Its not the battery, it cranks fine and runs at over 14volts. Also like I said in a previous post, it doesn't matter if there's a charger connected. And no fuses are popped??? Usually the blade type fuses will completely pop or not at all, not like the glass type that can pop on the end or melt loose under the metal where you can't see it. I'm going to pull the bcm and if I can disassemle it check for any burned traces. I'll let you guys know if we find anything. It might just have to go to the stealership.
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:25 PM   #22
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I'm very interested in what happened... let us know when you get this resolved.

Good Luck!
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